PJ Debated firing Robb Smith for some time

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Dano564

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https://www.twincities.com/2018/11/...g-firing-defensive-coordinator-for-some-time/


Excerpt:
“Sometimes in life, you have to make some of the hardest decisions that maybe you even create on your own,” Fleck said of his message to his players. “If you want to be in a leadership role, you’re going to have to make very difficult decisions. It’s not about being popular, it’s about doing what’s right and what needs to be done.”
 

Is it bad I've sat here and thought about replying to this thread for 5 minutes and still haven't decided if I care enough to say something? Seriously, who do we play first next year?
 

There's no excuse for giving up 55 points to Illinois. FCS teams put up a better fight. This was an embarrassment. We shouldn't be forced to watch a Robb Smith defense any longer.
 

Money quote:

“We have to be able to keep it simple for our players, we have to be sound and we’ve got to play fast,” Fleck said. “We’ve got to put our players in the best position to be successful. That’s what I’ve told Joe, and that’s what I want to see out of him.”

That's what we'll all be watching for.

JTG
 

I would hope he had thought about it for awhile and didn't make a knee jerk decision based on one bad game. Which it wasn't - the evidence had been mounting for over a year.
 


rockford said:
Money quote:

“We have to be able to keep it simple for our players, we have to be sound and we’ve got to play fast,” Fleck said. “We’ve got to put our players in the best position to be successful. That’s what I’ve told Joe, and that’s what I want to see out of him.”

That's what we'll all be watching for.

JTG
Click to expand...

In other words....make sure guys aren't in the same gaps/gap integrity/cheating or looking in the wrong place, emphasize sound tackling.

My God, in all my years of football, this is the poorest fundamentals I've seen from a gopher defense and I've seen some bad ones
 

I'm surprised he fired him Sunday night. I thought he'd wait until Monday morning b/c he eats difficult conversations for breakfast!
 

I can't help but wonder if lack of personnel alternatives has been a stumbling block here. In strong programs, the message is simple: "This is what you do, and if you don't do it Player X is gonna get your job."

When Player X is obviously not going to make the field, there's no threat.

Personally, there comes a point where I'd rather lose with Player X than a more talented player who refuses to fulfill his role.

JTG
 




rockford said:
I can't help but wonder if lack of personnel alternatives has been a stumbling block here. In strong programs, the message is simple: "This is what you do, and if you don't do it Player X is gonna get your job."

When Player X is obviously not going to make the field, there's no threat.

Personally, there comes a point where I'd rather lose with Player X than a more talented player who refuses to fulfill his role.

JTG
Click to expand...

I'm not sure anyone is refusing to do their job out there.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I'm not sure anyone is refusing to do their job out there.
Click to expand...

A player who repeatedly fails to follow the correct keys and subsequently finds himself out of position is refusing to do his job.

There are three areas to look at:

1) Scheme (strategy): Are players put into positions where they can be successful?

2) Coaching (teaching): Do players have a firm grasp of their assignments, and the technical skills to carry them out?

3) Personnel (execution): Do players execute their assignments?

I think we can assume that items 1 and 2 were lacking under whatshisname. But 3 almost always presents a problem in some shape or form, even on good teams. It's easy to play yourself out of position. Many times, that's what the offense is trying to get you to do.

It seems like we have a hell of a lot of guys out of position on a regular basis, even some of our "name" defenders.

A former Marine I once coached with used to say, "What you accept is what to expect." I'm wondering if the former defensive regime "accepted" a lack of discipline.

JTG
 

A former Marine I once coached with used to say, "What you accept is what to expect." I'm wondering if the former defensive regime "accepted" a lack of discipline.
Click to expand...

This gets into the positive vs negative reinforcement weeds. I lean towards the Nick Saban end of the spectrum.
 

rockford said:
A player who repeatedly fails to follow the correct keys and subsequently finds himself out of position is refusing to do his job.

There are three areas to look at:

1) Scheme (strategy): Are players put into positions where they can be successful?

2) Coaching (teaching): Do players have a firm grasp of their assignments, and the technical skills to carry them out?

3) Personnel (execution): Do players execute their assignments?

I think we can assume that items 1 and 2 were lacking under whatshisname. But 3 almost always presents a problem in some shape or form, even on good teams. It's easy to play yourself out of position. Many times, that's what the offense is trying to get you to do.

It seems like we have a hell of a lot of guys out of position on a regular basis, even some of our "name" defenders.

A former Marine I once coached with used to say, "What you accept is what to expect." I'm wondering if the former defensive regime "accepted" a lack of discipline.

JTG
Click to expand...

Do you feel like any repeated failing is refusing to do their job?

That seems to be a strange approach.
 



rockford said:
A former Marine I once coached with used to say, "What you accept is what to expect." I'm wondering if the former defensive regime "accepted" a lack of discipline.

JTG
Click to expand...

I agree. I've heard, "What you see on tape is what you've coached." If you're seeing things you didn't coach, you haven't done enough to discourage it.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I’m looking forward to a new defensive staff.
Click to expand...

This gets me wondering. Would a new defensive coordinator want to bring in his own position coaches? Or would he just work with what is already in place?
 

Stuff said:
This gets me wondering. Would a new defensive coordinator want to bring in his own position coaches? Or would he just work with what is already in place?
Click to expand...

I'm sure it depends on if they have guys to bring or not.
 

rockford said:
A player who repeatedly fails to follow the correct keys and subsequently finds himself out of position is refusing to do his job.

There are three areas to look at:

1) Scheme (strategy): Are players put into positions where they can be successful?

2) Coaching (teaching): Do players have a firm grasp of their assignments, and the technical skills to carry them out?

3) Personnel (execution): Do players execute their assignments?

I think we can assume that items 1 and 2 were lacking under whatshisname. But 3 almost always presents a problem in some shape or form, even on good teams. It's easy to play yourself out of position. Many times, that's what the offense is trying to get you to do.

It seems like we have a hell of a lot of guys out of position on a regular basis, even some of our "name" defenders.

A former Marine I once coached with used to say, "What you accept is what to expect." I'm wondering if the former defensive regime "accepted" a lack of discipline.

JTG
Click to expand...

You are spot on.

I'd like to add that practiced players perform better. In the Jerry Kill Era, he emphasized fundamentals. He not only speak it, but required the players to do the repetitive drills day in and day out. Fleck saying "the ball is the program" has to be backed up by constant stripping and ball cradling practices.
 

fmlizard said:
I would hope he had thought about it for awhile and didn't make a knee jerk decision based on one bad game. Which it wasn't - the evidence had been mounting for over a year.
Click to expand...

I think PJ Fleck was more than fair to Robb Smith. AIWS previously, He was blinded by friendship and loyalty. Robb Smith's body of work was out there for the college world to see, and it is not pretty. Every place he's been to, his defensive team retrogressed. So, it is not a matter of lack of talent. It is about taking care of the fundamentals and player development. You have to focus on making the entire defensive unit better regardless of talent level. Kill & Claeys didn't have the most talented players, but they instilled discipline play and drill them to death.

No scheme will work without taking care of fundamentals, gap discipline, and taking care that the next man up has been developed properly so he can contribute.

At the end of the day, giving up forty fifty points in consecutive games points to a complete breakdown of a team. A lot of of this rest on the defense. All thing being equal "Defense win championships" per Bear Bryant.
 
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Stuff said:
This gets me wondering. Would a new defensive coordinator want to bring in his own position coaches? Or would he just work with what is already in place?
Click to expand...

An established DC at another school might have some coaches he would want to bring with him but there is no guarantee he would be able to. If it is a position coach being elevated to DC he might not. Lots of factors involved so no real way of knowing how it would shake out. Ideally the new coordinator can work with the existing position coaches to keep continuity with recruits and the current players.
 

hungan1 said:
I think PJ Fleck was more than fair to Robb Smith. AIWS previously, He was blinded by friendship and loyalty. Robb Smith's body of work was out there for the college world to see, and it is not pretty. Every place he's been to, his defensive team retrogressed. So, it is not a matter of lack of talent. It is about taking care of the fundamentals and player development. You have to focus on making the entire defensive unit better regardless of talent level. Kill & Claeys didn't have the most talented players, but they instilled discipline play and drill them to death.

No scheme will work without taking care of fundamentals, gap discipline, and taking care that the next man up has been developed properly so he can contribute.

At the end of the day, giving up forty fifty points in consecutive games points to a complete breakdown of a team. A lot of of this rest on the defense. All thing being equal "Defense win championships" per Bear Bryant.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Please inform GweatherGuy.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Do you feel like any repeated failing is refusing to do their job?
Click to expand...

No. There can be many reasons for failure. Sometimes you do everything right, and the other guy or team just does what they want better. Sometimes you're physically overmatched, and there's little you can do.

And sometimes things break down because of slow response, or actively ignoring your assigned duties. These two seem to have been happening way too often, leaving huge gaps that opposing runners dash through for eleventy billion yards.

That's why we have a new DC.

JTG
 

rockford said:
I can't help but wonder if lack of personnel alternatives has been a stumbling block here. In strong programs, the message is simple: "This is what you do, and if you don't do it Player X is gonna get your job."

When Player X is obviously not going to make the field, there's no threat.

Personally, there comes a point where I'd rather lose with Player X than a more talented player who refuses to fulfill his role.

JTG
Click to expand...

See, it doesn't really matter. A good D2 team doesn't give up 600 yards a game on the regular in the Big Ten. Poor tackling, missed assignments, guys being in the wrong spot, no knowing what's going on. It all points to
coaching. Would they still be a bad defense if these things were being done? They might be because the talent might not be there. That said, giving up the yards and points this defense does is not acceptable as long as you have Big Ten scholarship athletes on the field. They don't even have to be Big Ten worthy talent to keep from giving up 600 yards a game. Do your jobs.
 

rockford said:
Money quote:

“We have to be able to keep it simple for our players, we have to be sound and we’ve got to play fast,” Fleck said. “We’ve got to put our players in the best position to be successful. That’s what I’ve told Joe, and that’s what I want to see out of him.”

That's what we'll all be watching for.

JTG
Click to expand...

Can't help but wonder - was Fleck communicating this to Smith? If he was, why didn't it happen - or at least steps in that direction? this sounds like a disconnect between the head coach and the DC. Either differences in philosophy, or a breakdown in communications. But something was getting lost in the translation.
 

OddStack said:
I'm surprised he fired him Sunday night. I thought he'd wait until Monday morning b/c he eats difficult conversations for breakfast!
Click to expand...
I'm not. If you look at the numbers for the defense this season, then you see bad numbers, totally unacceptable numbers for the defense. That means the coaching staff is not putting the players in a position to succeed.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 


rockford said:
Money quote:

“We have to be able to keep it simple for our players, we have to be sound and we’ve got to play fast,” Fleck said. “We’ve got to put our players in the best position to be successful. That’s what I’ve told Joe, and that’s what I want to see out of him.”

That's what we'll all be watching for.

JTG
Click to expand...

Million percent yes -- simplify! Easy scheme! Play fast!

Really wonder if Robb Smith's system was just too complex, and was causing "analysis paralysis" for the players. Wild guess, have no idea.
 

Ewert86PC said:
I'm not. If you look at the numbers for the defense this season, then you see bad numbers, totally unacceptable numbers for the defense. That means the coaching staff is not putting the players in a position to succeed.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Evidentally you don't understand the joke....PJ "eats difficult conversations for breakfast" and he fired him in the evening. He could've had a good Monday morning breakfast.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Can't help but wonder - was Fleck communicating this to Smith? If he was, why didn't it happen - or at least steps in that direction? this sounds like a disconnect between the head coach and the DC. Either differences in philosophy, or a breakdown in communications. But something was getting lost in the translation.
Click to expand...

He did say today that he doesn't micro manage his coordinators and likes them to be leaders and do it their way. He said he told Rossi to just be himself.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
He did say today that he doesn't micro manage his coordinators and likes them to be leaders and do it their way. He said he told Rossi to just be himself.
Click to expand...


What if Rossi has been hiding the fact that he's a dinosaur?
 

I'm hoping werewolf. We could use a werewolf on defense.

JTG
 

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