Importance of Coaching Staff Continuity?

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GopherWeatherGuy

GopherWeatherGuy

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I've seen several posters complain that Fleck is in over his head, or is Brewster 2.0 because his entire defensive staff has turned over in less than 2 seasons. It's a shock to some since we never had that issue with Kill's staff. But what happened with Kill's staff is extremely rare in college football today.

So I'll throw out a very popular coach today that I think has some similarities to Fleck. Dabo Swinney. Like Fleck, Dabo was never a coordinator prior to becoming a head coach. He was promoted to head coach at Clemson due to being an excellent WRs coach and recruiting coordinator.

Dabo inherited a talented roster and won 9 games in his first full season. He then went 6-7 in his second full season, which led him to firing his offensive coordinator. In his 3rd full season, Clemson won 10 games, but he decided his defensive coordinator wasn't good enough and fired him. Entering his 4th full season, only two coaches remained from his original staff, the WR coach and ST coach. They won 11 that season and have averaged 12 wins per season since.

Dabo continued to recruit at a high level and made some great hires when he changed his coordinators. He had a vision and expectations, and wasn't hesitant to make changes when his staff failed to meet them. In the same way I fully believe that PJ has a vision and will do whatever it takes to win here.

Dabo is just one example, but I think he compares well to PJ. Maybe Fleck wins here or maybe he doesn't. I like that he made a tough decision and fired a friend who wasn't getting the job done. Coordinators and position coaching jobs are revolving doors all around the country. Just because we weren't used to it under Kill, does not mean that Fleck is automatically Tim Brewster and destined to fail.
 
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Even if super successful.... we would have coaching changes and would have to deal with that. PJ's ability to do that thing is gonna be a thing one way or another.

And under Kill I think we would have liked to have seen some changes sooner rather than later.
 

Thanks for sharing. I was not aware of the history Dabo had. Clemson is a bit of a different monster when it come to funds available to attract coaches, however, I think you make a good point. There is no right way to do things. Many ways to get to success or failure.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I've seen several posters complain that Fleck is in over his head, or is Brewster 2.0 because his entire defensive staff has turned over in less than 2 seasons. It's a shock to some since we never had that issue with Kill's staff. But what happened with Kill's staff is extremely rare in college football today.

So I'll throw out a very popular coach today that I think has some similarities to Fleck. Dabo Swinney. Like Fleck, Dabo was never a coordinator prior to becoming a head coach. He was promoted to head coach at Clemson due to being an excellent WRs coach and recruiting coordinator.

Dabo inherited a talented roster and won 9 games in his first full season. He then went 6-7 in second full season, which led him to firing his offensive coordinator. In his 3rd full season, Clemson won 10 games, but he decided his defensive coordinator wasn't good enough and fired him. Entering his 4th full season, only two coaches remained from his original staff, the WR coach and ST coach. They won 11 that season and have averaged 12 wins per season since.

Dabo continued to recruit at a high level and made some great hires when he changed his coordinators. He had a vision and expectations, and wasn't hesitant to make changes when his staff failed to meet them. In the same way I fully believe that PJ has a vision and will do whatever it takes to win here.

Dabo is just one example, but I think he compares well to PJ. Maybe Fleck wins here or maybe he doesn't. I like that he made tough decision and fired a friend wasn't getting the job done. Coordinators and position coaching jobs are revolving doors all around the country. Just because we weren't used to it under Kill, does not mean that Fleck is automatically Tim Brewster and destined to fail.
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Good post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Great post. The results this year have been disappointing, but I think stability is needed. The offense has made some huge strides. Let's see what the defense looks like next year with all of the new additions.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
Thanks for sharing. I was not aware of the history Dabo had. Clemson is a bit of a different monster when it come to funds available to attract coaches, however, I think you make a good point. There is no right way to do things. Many ways to get to success or failure.
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Plus Clemson has been able to get top level recruiting classes for several years. Nothing builds a program like talent.
 

Unregistered User said:
The start of the college football season is mere weeks away, and fans begging for Nick Saban’s Alabama Crimson Tide to backslide do not have a lot to pin their hopes on.

The Crimson Tide have won five national championships since 2009 and they are expected to have their usual array of talent on both sides of the ball and special teams in 2018. There is something of a quarterback controversy between the junior Jalen Hurts, who led the team to the last two national championship games, and the sophomore Tua Tagovailoa, who rescued the team after halftime of last season’s championship game against Georgia. It is a luxurious problem for Saban to solve.

There is this though: Saban has six new assistant coaches. Brent Key, an offensive line coach, is the only assistant in the same role as 2017. Saban also has a new offensive coordinator and new defensive coordinator. Running backs coach Burton Burns, the last remaining assistant coach from Saban’s first Alabama staff, retired from coaching in January. Mike Locksley is Saban’s seventh offensive coordinator at Alabama.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/30/sports/nick-saban-alabama.html
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Unregistered User said:
Brian Kelly’s most successful offseasons at Notre Dame have often followed a formulaic, if not unconventional, path.

The Fighting Irish have a mediocre season, and Kelly brings aboard some fresh coaching blood.

Notre Dame follows with a productive season, happiness is restored and everyone stays aboard to try to do it again.

https://theathletic.com/220341/2018/01/25/notre-dame-football-coaching-staff-turnover/
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Unregistered User said:
NORMAN — Mike Stoops has been dismissed as the defensive coordinator for the Oklahoma football team. Head coach Lincoln Riley made the announcement.

"I have great respect for Mike," said Riley. "He's a quality football coach, great man and a close friend. It became time for a change in our program and that happens sometimes in football, but we cannot lose sight of the accomplishments Mike had at Oklahoma. He was responsible for a lot of success and deserves the gratitude of everyone associated with Sooner football, not only for his role in the winning, but for coaching with integrity."

For the remainder of the season, assistant head coach and defensive tackles coach Ruffin McNeill will serve as the defensive coordinator. Bob Diaco will move from defensive specialist to coach the outside linebackers.

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31000&ATCLID=211775153
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Unregistered User said:
There is one offensive staff member remaining from Harbaugh's first group at Michigan in 2015: Running backs coach Jay Harbaugh, who moved from a role as tight ends coach last season.

In three years, Jim Harbaugh has had four offensive staffers leave. Five if you count Dan Enos, who never coached a game here. His original offensive coordinator/offensive line coach (Drevno), passing game coordinator (Jedd Fisch) and running backs coach (Tyrone Wheatley) are gone, along with eventual run game coordinator Greg Frey.

Warinner, Jim McElwain and tight ends coach Sherrone Moore are all new to the offensive staff this season.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/...igan-football-offense-jim-harbaugh/760844002/
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QED
 

If we're going with Dabo examples..... who is our current WR coach who will get us to the playoffs???
 

Assistant coaches don't always leave because they are fired. Often times they take better jobs at better programs.
 



Peter Quagmire said:
Assistant coaches don't always leave because they are fired. Often times they take better jobs at better programs.
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Very true in fact more often then not this is why assistant coaches leave. I think a lot have forgotten because they got used to the lack of movement in Kill's staff which as others have pointed out is extremely rare. Most assistants are looking to advance up the ranks, it is rare to find a group of assistants totally content to remain in the same role year after year like they were with Kill.
 


Great post.

Like all professions an employee is held to certain expectations. If he/she fails to meet these expectations or is not performing to a reasonable set standard then they shall pay the consequences. The defense was not living up to those expectations and steps are being taken to change it.

I think we can all agree continuity is important but there comes a time when you just need to cut your losses with an individual (in this case a coach) to move forward.
 

GoldyMoose said:
Matt Simon. Tyler Johnson, Rashad Bateman. Chris Autman Bell, Demetrius Douglas......
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maxresdefault.jpg
 



Peter Quagmire said:
Assistant coaches don't always leave because they are fired. Often times they take better jobs at better programs.
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How would we know? It's not like we saw that last off-seas......oh wait. Nevermind.
 

PJ has repeatedly and emphatically preached about the importance of coaching continuity. Like the ball is the program, it is one of his most often used talking points.
 

Clemson, Alabama, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Michigan, Minnesota. D'okay.
 

swingman said:
PJ has repeatedly and emphatically preached about the importance of coaching continuity. Like the ball is the program, it is one of his most often used talking points.
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It is possible to keep continuity even though the people may change some. Ideally you don't want to see a lot of movement from the coordinators but in the case of Smith it had to be done.
 

I should also mention that Dabo replaced Tommy Bowden who resigned in the middle of his 10th season at Clemson. During the previous 9 seasons, Bowden averaged 7.6 wins per season and never won more than 9 in a season. Bowden was similar to Kill and Mason, where he always had solid teams, but could never take that next step.
 

formerlybis said:
Clemson, Alabama, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Michigan, Minnesota. D'okay.
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+1. I can’t say for certain but looking at that list of other programs cited, they all have too 10 recruiting classes almost every year so they are just waiting for the right coaching scheme to come together. Little bit of a different situation.
 

formerlybis said:
Clemson, Alabama, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Michigan, Minnesota. D'okay.
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I started with #1 in the poll and queried "Alabama football coaching staff turnover" to see what results would appear. Then I went to #2, etc. After a small number of searches, I saw that staff turnover was not unusual.

Some posters are acting like "continuity" is a magic bullet to success. #'s 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 all have had recent turnover. There was actually an article about #5 Georgia that did talk about staff continuity. I did not search past #6. 5 out of 6 was enough for me.

If you can't figure out what I was trying to convey by what I had posted...well...then I don't think I can help you any further.
 

PJ Fleck told his players, "My job is to out recruit you".

He should have also said, "My job is to also to find a high level coach who will out-coach the current coach". The bar has been set very low for this.
 

It's important but I don't think it's the end of the world if you have some turnover on the staff. Some like to bring up Brewster. If my memory is correct, it wasn't just staff changes but he was completely changing everything from year to year (especially on offense). Switched to a spread, then went to a pro style of offense. That's a pretty significant change.
 
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IMO it's really a continuity of scheme, development, coaching philosophy more than anything. If done right, Fleck should be able to plug and play coaches who match those.
 

GophersInIowa said:
It's important but I don't think it's the end of the world if you have some turnover on the staff. Some like to bring up Brewster. If my memory is correct, it wasn't just staff changes but he wasn't completely changing everything from year to year (especially on offense). Switched to a spread, then went to a pro style of offense. That's a pretty significant change.
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The inability to settle on an offensive scheme was a huge part of Brew's undoing. The offense he settled on in the end with Horton would have been a much smoother transition from the Mason years but unfortunately he decided to go spread with Dunbar, followed by....not really sure what to call what Fisch was doing...., until finally settling on a more pro style offense with Horton.

He didn't really know what he wanted things to look like when he got here because he had never been a head coach before. Honestly that is why I hate how some fans choose to compare Brew and Fleck and act like they are the same just because they don't talk slow.
 

MNVCGUY said:
The inability to settle on an offensive scheme was a huge part of Brew's undoing. The offense he settled on in the end with Horton would have been a much smoother transition from the Mason years but unfortunately he decided to go spread with Dunbar, followed by....not really sure what to call what Fisch was doing...., until finally settling on a more pro style offense with Horton.

He didn't really know what he wanted things to look like when he got here because he had never been a head coach before. Honestly that is why I hate how some fans choose to compare Brew and Fleck and act like they are the same just because they don't talk slow.
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Whatever it was I hated that play where we did play action with the RB ... and then Grey then followed the RB to the same hole.... like we want to draw the defenders to where the ball is going?
 

I don't think anyone is saying that turnover is always a negative. There is going to be turnover. Most people understand that.

The issue is WHY the turnover is happening. An assistant coach leaving for a 'better' job with a more successful program is easily understood. Fleck himself has said that he wants to see young coaches move up the ladder. But, if coaches are leaving because of poor performance, or differences of opinion/philosophy with the head coach, that is a very different situation.

So, the question (which I can't answer) is why the Gophers are experiencing turnover. I suspect there are multiple reasons.
 

I don't worry about turnover as much as change of defensive or offensive strategies. You need to align recruiting with your strategy and keep it consistent for 5-10 years.
 

PMWinSTP said:
IMO it's really a continuity of scheme, development, coaching philosophy more than anything. If done right, Fleck should be able to plug and play coaches who match those.
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I agree. Fleck knows what he wants to do on offense and has recruited to fit that scheme. You're starting to see the improvement on that side of the ball, even though the majority of the starters are freshman. He also knows what he wants to do on defense, and is recruiting to fit to that scheme. Rob Smith just wasn't getting the job done. He'll bring in a new coach that fits that scheme and the recruiting, and we'll likely see improvements next season.
 

Face The Facts said:
I don't worry about turnover as much as change of defensive or offensive strategies. You need to align recruiting with your strategy and keep it consistent for 5-10 years.
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This is more important than the actual number of years you keep the same coaches
 


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