Two constants in defensive breakdowns

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Going back through yesterday's game, I observed two constants: (i) poor recognition from safeties; (ii) lack of physical dominance in the interior line.

Specifically, look at the first long rush for a TD (second play of the game). What do you see? Single back. Four WR's. So they spread the defense out. Rush around the right end. Power blocking scheme. As the play unfolds, the safety and LB on the play side backpedal to respect the pass (three WR's on play side). As soon as the left tack pulls, the LB recognizes, and meets the tackle, forcing the runner up the middle to the safety. So far, so good. Where's the safety? Oh. His recognition is not so hot (freshman). When the tackle is a full three steps into his pull to the play side, the safety is STILL BACK PEDALING. Dude - you need to read the OL play. It's clearly a run at this point. You need to come up because the LB is going to turn the runner back up the field to you.

Basically, it's not so much that the safeties are slow as measured by foot speed. It's that they are young and slow to recognize what is developing on the field. This happens time and again.

Now look at EVERY SINGLE big running play. One major issue is that with OJ Smith's absence, there is literally not a single player consuming a double-team. At all. HAT ON HAT, EVERY TIME. Which leaves at least one lineman free to get to the second level and destroy a LB. Which happened a lot. I am sure Elijah Teague will turn into a great player. But right now, it is a liability to play a freshman in the trenches when he simply does not draw a double-team ever. Our LB's are exposed as hell.

Ok. Sorry for the long post. That's what I'm seeing.

Good news is that time and experience (and growth) will cure these things.
 


Going back through yesterday's game, I observed two constants: (i) poor recognition from safeties; (ii) lack of physical dominance in the interior line.

Specifically, look at the first long rush for a TD (second play of the game). What do you see? Single back. Four WR's. So they spread the defense out. Rush around the right end. Power blocking scheme. As the play unfolds, the safety and LB on the play side backpedal to respect the pass (three WR's on play side). As soon as the left tack pulls, the LB recognizes, and meets the tackle, forcing the runner up the middle to the safety. So far, so good. Where's the safety? Oh. His recognition is not so hot (freshman). When the tackle is a full three steps into his pull to the play side, the safety is STILL BACK PEDALING. Dude - you need to read the OL play. It's clearly a run at this point. You need to come up because the LB is going to turn the runner back up the field to you.

Basically, it's not so much that the safeties are slow as measured by foot speed. It's that they are young and slow to recognize what is developing on the field. This happens time and again.

Now look at EVERY SINGLE big running play. One major issue is that with OJ Smith's absence, there is literally not a single player consuming a double-team. At all. HAT ON HAT, EVERY TIME. Which leaves at least one lineman free to get to the second level and destroy a LB. Which happened a lot. I am sure Elijah Teague will turn into a great player. But right now, it is a liability to play a freshman in the trenches when he simply does not draw a double-team ever. Our LB's are exposed as hell.

Ok. Sorry for the long post. That's what I'm seeing.

Good news is that time and experience (and growth) will cure these things.

Great observation!

But experience will not teach anything if the coaches aren't teaching it right. So we can't just blame the young player, could also be the coaching or lack of.
 

I should point out that there are problems that present themselves everywhere on these plays. So it's not just a matter of these two points. But they play a major and constant role. Look at the depth chart in the Fresno State game and compare it to the Illinois game. What's the difference? No OJ Smith. No Winfield. And what is the result. No double teams EVER. Direct unfettered access to our LB's - not a combo block to get a little motion and then release to the second level. Hell, 50% of the time, the OL never releases or the release is late or the release isn't clean. Just straight-up, f*** it, Bob's got the DL - I'm going for the LB. And then you've got a safety that is way too slow to recognize what is developing on the field. And these things happen every time. There is no depth, so we don't have a better option from a player point of view. And there really isn't a scheme to hide these deficiencies. But it will get better with time and experience.
 

It appears our D-line is getting blown of the ball and they appear undersized.

Robb Smith and Fleck should be playing their really big Defensive Lineman instead of these smaller guys who are getting pushed around.
 


I guarantee you their are backup offensive sitting on the bench who are strong enough and have the size back in be good run pluggers not good pass-rushers but run pluggers stop the run first then substitute.
 

Gary Moore is not undersized. Ulmor is red shirting to play him at d tackle and add size. Rule says you can play 4 games, he played all last season and did alright. Play the man! We have the games left to do so! And for that matter play some of the other youngsters too, let's get some expierence!
 

I should point out that there are problems that present themselves everywhere on these plays. So it's not just a matter of these two points. But they play a major and constant role. Look at the depth chart in the Fresno State game and compare it to the Illinois game. What's the difference? No OJ Smith. No Winfield. And what is the result. No double teams EVER. Direct unfettered access to our LB's - not a combo block to get a little motion and then release to the second level. Hell, 50% of the time, the OL never releases or the release is late or the release isn't clean. Just straight-up, f*** it, Bob's got the DL - I'm going for the LB. And then you've got a safety that is way too slow to recognize what is developing on the field. And these things happen every time. There is no depth, so we don't have a better option from a player point of view. And there really isn't a scheme to hide these deficiencies. But it will get better with time and experience.
Correct on all accounts. Losing Smith and Winfield has killed all momentum on defense. Howden needs sit, just the time to give some others a chance. Umlor can play now and needs to. Got to plug the leaks.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk
 

Great observation!

But experience will not teach anything if the coaches aren't teaching it right. So we can't just blame the young player, could also be the coaching or lack of.

This.
 



Robb Smith has been a great D coordinator everywhere he’s been! Just look at his history. He just needs 10 or 11 NFLers. His D only gave up 37.1 points per game over 10 games his 3rd year at Arkansas. Can’t wait to see our D get worse so it can set all time NCAA records for futility. We’re so close already!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Robb Smith has been a great D coordinator everywhere he’s been! Just look at his history. He just needs 10 or 11 NFLers. His D only gave up 37.1 points per game over 10 games his 3rd year at Arkansas. Can’t wait to see our D get worse so it can set all time NCAA records for futility. We’re so close already!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He's already broken the record for futility in the SEC. He's adding to his resume with the Gophers. He came close if not for the kneel down in Illinois.
 

Going back through yesterday's game, I observed two constants: (i) poor recognition from safeties; (ii) lack of physical dominance in the interior line.

Specifically, look at the first long rush for a TD (second play of the game). What do you see? Single back. Four WR's. So they spread the defense out. Rush around the right end. Power blocking scheme. As the play unfolds, the safety and LB on the play side backpedal to respect the pass (three WR's on play side). As soon as the left tack pulls, the LB recognizes, and meets the tackle, forcing the runner up the middle to the safety. So far, so good. Where's the safety? Oh. His recognition is not so hot (freshman). When the tackle is a full three steps into his pull to the play side, the safety is STILL BACK PEDALING. Dude - you need to read the OL play. It's clearly a run at this point. You need to come up because the LB is going to turn the runner back up the field to you.

Basically, it's not so much that the safeties are slow as measured by foot speed. It's that they are young and slow to recognize what is developing on the field. This happens time and again.

Now look at EVERY SINGLE big running play. One major issue is that with OJ Smith's absence, there is literally not a single player consuming a double-team. At all. HAT ON HAT, EVERY TIME. Which leaves at least one lineman free to get to the second level and destroy a LB. Which happened a lot. I am sure Elijah Teague will turn into a great player. But right now, it is a liability to play a freshman in the trenches when he simply does not draw a double-team ever. Our LB's are exposed as hell.

Ok. Sorry for the long post. That's what I'm seeing.

Good news is that time and experience (and growth) will cure these things.

Great post. You hit everything I was thinking. However I still question our LB’s. Not sure they are physical enough at the point of attack. Perhaps a total blitz package would be better. Certainly couldn’t n be any worse.
 

I agree that you hit this post on the head.

When your DL is getting moved like ours is, you better have tremendous linebackers to fill those gaping holes. Tackling in space is the hardest thing in all of football. We struggled with it mightily with our high school football team this season. And why? Because of the same reasons that the Gophers are struggling. Their defensive line cannot get movement or get off of blocks.

I remember one play in particular yesterday when the LDE gets washed inside and Cashman scrapes to fill, but the back has such a large hole that he is able to easily cut back against him and Cashmand barely laid a finger on him. You win and lose games up front on both sides of the ball, and we are currently losing them.
 



Ok... Now that the defensive coordinator position is open, I'll give the new guy some hints. If someone were to ask me to provide a "quick fix" it would go like this:

(1) The conversation with the defensive linemen is "if your name is not Coughlin I do not want to see you doing anything that even remotely looks like trying to get off a block. Your new job is to consume blockers. Effectively, you are an offensive lineman playing on the defensive side of the ball. I will show you how to consume blockers, and that is all you will do. You will read nothing, have no gap assignments, and no other purpose than to consume blockers. Sorry, we'll try it again the right way next year."

(2) The conversation with the linebackers is: "you are clearly the strongest unit on the team. The way I've jiggered things, you will be upright all the time. You will stop all rushing plays. There will be no support from the defensive line or safeties. But I promise you'll be upright and with simply that, you can cover the field."

(3) The conversation with the safeties is: "you don't have any responsibility for providing rush support. You do not need to look into the backfield or at the offensive line to read it. It doesn't matter any more. Feel free to stare down receivers and concentrate on coverage. It's your sole responsibility now. I've just cut down the territory you need to cover by at least 50% - probably more. We'll try it again the right way next year. Keep your chin up in the meantime!"

Hopefully the acting DC is listening. I can come by and pick up my check later in the week.
 

Thanks for the good thread. This was interesting to read and I felt like I learned something.
 

Here are Derek Burns' thoughts on the defensive breakdowns. Everyone should follow him on Twitter if you don't already!

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Here are Derek Burns' thoughts on the defensive breakdowns. Everyone should follow him on Twitter if you don't already!

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Probably should do that.
 

Burns is 100% right.

The run fits are a mess. That’s where it all starts.
 

My observation is that its been a breakdown in all three levels.

DL hasn't been getting off blockers or at least tying them up as mentioned.

LB has been over-agressive and guesses which hole. RB picks the next one and there isn't anybody even there to attempt a tackle.

DB has missed many tackles resulting in long touchdowns. Its not just one guy (freshman). Its the upperclassmen too.
 

This will not get fixed in a week. The sad part is poor coaching has left a situation that will take a LOT to undue.
 

This is the best thread ever! It is great to read the input from knowledgable coaches on what is really happening instead of the usual GH bickering. I wish we had 10 more threads like this, it is fun to learn.
 

We have safeties catching blocks 10 yards downfield on running plays.

That's the result of not having any confidence in the read and fit.
 

Before the play begins there are issues. When defense is coached it's coached in this order:
1. alignment
2. reads/keys
3. assignment

Here are is one screen shot from a couple weeks ago where we aren't lined up properly after the ball has been snapped!!!! We have 1 DB outside the hash. They have trips outside the hash.thumbnail.jpg

Below is another that is scheme related. Playing cover 2 (2 deep) against trips is assinine, yet this appears to be what we are in. Typically, you would play cover 3 (3 deep), cover 6 (quarter, quarter, half....a 3 deep coverage that splits the trips side to smaller deep zones), or a version of man. Regular cover two allows a deep middle hole and a deep ouside/sideline hole to be easily hit b/c the other receivers are easily able to run routes to keep the CB in the flat. By doing so, this prevents the CB from getting under the deep sideline route which buys the Safety some time to get over and make a play b/c the ball has to go over the CB. (Done perfectly on Detroit's INT yesterday against Cousins on the Theilen route.) Also, the safety can be manipulated easily to the outside b/c he should have some help by the ILB down the middle as well as the opposite safety. However, play-action eliminates the help from a ILB and the other safety may get a threat down the opposite sideline he may have to honor.

Anyway, alighment and scheme are at fault here. The coverage is dumb as listed above. However the locations of our secondary and OLB are equally bad. We have 2 guys over the #2 receiver and nobody close to #3. (Recivers are counted and labeled 1, 2, 3 typically from the outside in.) The preferred plan should be OLB apexing #3 or over #3 which would allow him to disrupt #3 instead of him running a skinny post, catch a pass, and walk in for a TD which he did. The Safety should be over #2 which puts him in the best location for deep half.

All around mess from staff and players!!!!thumbnail-1.jpg
 
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I don't think they'll do this, because it's a completely different system and there just isn't enough time to install something so radically different ..... but in my mind, I wish they could give a true 3-4 a try. Why not try something radically different, if what you have is so broken??

40 fronts mean we have our DL lining up in gaps, which makes it slightly easier to double team them. And then our Ends are undersized.

30 fronts use 3 big DL, and line them up head-up on the Center (very tough on the C, if he isn't used to deal with this) and the OT. The DL try to absorb blockers and let the 4 backers behind them make the tackles.

Coughlin is playing out of position as end. Yes he is very quick and so he does make an impact now and then for a tackle for loss or a sack ... but those instances are too few and far between to slow down our opponents consistently. Linebacker is more his true position. Let Cashman and Martin play outside, Coughlin and Barber inside.

Would play Moore, Silver, and OJ Smith if healthy as the DL, and rotate in Teague, Sam Renner, and anyone else who is big in there.



Like I said, very much doubt such a radical shift will happen.
 

I don't think they'll do this, because it's a completely different system and there just isn't enough time to install something so radically different ..... but in my mind, I wish they could give a true 3-4 a try. Why not try something radically different, if what you have is so broken??

40 fronts mean we have our DL lining up in gaps, which makes it slightly easier to double team them. And then our Ends are undersized.

30 fronts use 3 big DL, and line them up head-up on the Center (very tough on the C, if he isn't used to deal with this) and the OT. The DL try to absorb blockers and let the 4 backers behind them make the tackles.

Coughlin is playing out of position as end. Yes he is very quick and so he does make an impact now and then for a tackle for loss or a sack ... but those instances are too few and far between to slow down our opponents consistently. Linebacker is more his true position. Let Cashman and Martin play outside, Coughlin and Barber inside.

Would play Moore, Silver, and OJ Smith if healthy as the DL, and rotate in Teague, Sam Renner, and anyone else who is big in there.



Like I said, very much doubt such a radical shift will happen.

ALSO, all I see is mention that we are short DL, and LB is supposed to be an area of strength. The 3-4 means less DL and more LBs on the field.
 
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Ok... Now that the defensive coordinator position is open, I'll give the new guy some hints. If someone were to ask me to provide a "quick fix" it would go like this:

(1) The conversation with the defensive linemen is "if your name is not Coughlin I do not want to see you doing anything that even remotely looks like trying to get off a block. Your new job is to consume blockers. Effectively, you are an offensive lineman playing on the defensive side of the ball. I will show you how to consume blockers, and that is all you will do. You will read nothing, have no gap assignments, and no other purpose than to consume blockers. Sorry, we'll try it again the right way next year."

(2) The conversation with the linebackers is: "you are clearly the strongest unit on the team. The way I've jiggered things, you will be upright all the time. You will stop all rushing plays. There will be no support from the defensive line or safeties. But I promise you'll be upright and with simply that, you can cover the field."

(3) The conversation with the safeties is: "you don't have any responsibility for providing rush support. You do not need to look into the backfield or at the offensive line to read it. It doesn't matter any more. Feel free to stare down receivers and concentrate on coverage. It's your sole responsibility now. I've just cut down the territory you need to cover by at least 50% - probably more. We'll try it again the right way next year. Keep your chin up in the meantime!"

Hopefully the acting DC is listening. I can come by and pick up my check later in the week.

That's sounds like something I might do if I were playing Madden and "trying a few things out".
 


Ok... Now that the defensive coordinator position is open, I'll give the new guy some hints. If someone were to ask me to provide a "quick fix" it would go like this:

(1) The conversation with the defensive linemen is "if your name is not Coughlin I do not want to see you doing anything that even remotely looks like trying to get off a block. Your new job is to consume blockers. Effectively, you are an offensive lineman playing on the defensive side of the ball. I will show you how to consume blockers, and that is all you will do. You will read nothing, have no gap assignments, and no other purpose than to consume blockers. Sorry, we'll try it again the right way next year."

(2) The conversation with the linebackers is: "you are clearly the strongest unit on the team. The way I've jiggered things, you will be upright all the time. You will stop all rushing plays. There will be no support from the defensive line or safeties. But I promise you'll be upright and with simply that, you can cover the field."

(3) The conversation with the safeties is: "you don't have any responsibility for providing rush support. You do not need to look into the backfield or at the offensive line to read it. It doesn't matter any more. Feel free to stare down receivers and concentrate on coverage. It's your sole responsibility now. I've just cut down the territory you need to cover by at least 50% - probably more. We'll try it again the right way next year. Keep your chin up in the meantime!"

Hopefully the acting DC is listening. I can come by and pick up my check later in the week.

Like this very much too. This is along the lines of Burns' "simplify" suggestion.

So again hope Rossi does not do the opposite.
 

Since I've discussed the first two rushing TD's, let's look at the third rushing TD. What do we see? Four WR's. AGAIN. Why? Because we exchange a LB for a DB to account for the extra receiver. So they've already scored a victory. Our strongest unit loses a man, and our weak secondary gains another. Great.

What else? Hat on hat everywhere. NOT A SINGLE DOUBLE-TEAM REQUIRED. Again. Think I'm exaggerating? Look:

Third TD.jpg

Hat-on-hat means one lineman can get out after a linebacker. Now one of only two out there. The lineman never even THINKS about touching a defensive lineman. Why would he? They can all be handled easily one-on-one. So he demolishes an exposed LB. This is happening on EVERY long run. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Even one DL that can consistently draw a double-team makes a HUGE difference. If there was even one DL who commanded a double-team, then: (1) either that LB would be standing upright; or (2) the offense would have to bring in a TE to clear the LB, but bringing in a TE would cause the LB count to climb from two to three.

Then, of course, there is the safety recognition issue. The safety and runner meet 15 yards downfield. That means that in the time it took for the play to set up and the runner to then travel 15 yards down the field, the safety only had time to travel 5 yards upfield. That's not slow foot speed. That's poor recognition.

So the quick fix - not the best fix, but the quick one - is to have the DL's become responsible for consuming blockers. Not making plays. Just consume blockers. It's easy to do. Let the LB's make the play. They are able to do it if they can stay upright. And let the safeties worry exclusively about the pass. They literally are unable to recognize in time to get in a position to make a play. (That's why they end up diving at ankles. It is the symptom of poor recognition.) So make things easier for them. Simplify their mental processes. This is a legitimate strategy used in situations like this.
 

Going back through yesterday's game, I observed two constants: (i) poor recognition from safeties; (ii) lack of physical dominance in the interior line.

Specifically, look at the first long rush for a TD (second play of the game). What do you see? Single back. Four WR's. So they spread the defense out. Rush around the right end. Power blocking scheme. As the play unfolds, the safety and LB on the play side backpedal to respect the pass (three WR's on play side). As soon as the left tack pulls, the LB recognizes, and meets the tackle, forcing the runner up the middle to the safety. So far, so good. Where's the safety? Oh. His recognition is not so hot (freshman). When the tackle is a full three steps into his pull to the play side, the safety is STILL BACK PEDALING. Dude - you need to read the OL play. It's clearly a run at this point. You need to come up because the LB is going to turn the runner back up the field to you.

Basically, it's not so much that the safeties are slow as measured by foot speed. It's that they are young and slow to recognize what is developing on the field. This happens time and again.

Now look at EVERY SINGLE big running play. One major issue is that with OJ Smith's absence, there is literally not a single player consuming a double-team. At all. HAT ON HAT, EVERY TIME. Which leaves at least one lineman free to get to the second level and destroy a LB. Which happened a lot. I am sure Elijah Teague will turn into a great player. But right now, it is a liability to play a freshman in the trenches when he simply does not draw a double-team ever. Our LB's are exposed as hell.

Ok. Sorry for the long post. That's what I'm seeing.

Good news is that time and experience (and growth) will cure these things.

This is not new news. It’s been like this all year.
 




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