2016 Holiday Bowl

I think the point is that Robb Smith couldn’t hold Claey’s jock strap when it comes to coaching defense. Who cares if their not the same players, this is Fleck’s second season and his defense has gotten progressively worse. They’re aren’t many coaches in the country with a worse defense. It’s not like he’s got the worst players in the country on defense. Plus, he’s responsible for bringing guys in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We all know and agree that Claeys is a far superior DC than Smith.

In case anyone forgot, we fired Claeys the HC, not the DC. The DC from the Holiday Bowl game was just fired at Wake Forest.

Our d-line talent may be the worst in Power 5 football, although I haven’t watched Kansas this year.
 

I love when folks fall all over themselves trying to diminish 2016 in some misguided belief it makes the current CF any more acceptable.
9* wins
WSU wasn’t that good
Holiday Bowl win was nothing special
We had great talent playing their scheme
Nothing unique about what we did that day in D



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

You know, I'm not even going to hope for bowl games or a Rose Bowl anymore.

<b>Our greatest moment as a Gopher fan already occurred and it happened at the Holiday Bowl.</b>
Whenever we starting thinking about a hopeful future, I'm just going to go back and recall the unnamed scout players who bravely fought for our Gophers in 2016.

Depending how long you have been a fan - a good argument could be made. Hopefully some day we will exceed that day, but it has been a straight and consistent nose-dive since.
abab315280a48053abbcd79d3311a760.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

I've seen a number of references to this game, including from media personalities, which go something like this "A lot of these guys played really well in the Holiday Bowl under Claeys and now suddenly can't play". I went back and looked and this just isn't the case. Here is the depth chart for the Gophers for the Holiday Bowl: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools...016-17/misc_non_event/122316PositionChart.pdf

The Dline consisted of Hank Ekpe, Scott Ekpe, Steven Richardson, and Gaelin Elmore (2 Seniors and 2 Juniors) backups were Devers, Timms, Stelter and DeLattiboudere (Senior, Junior, Freshman, Freshman)

The Linebackers consisted of Celestin, Rallis, and Lynn (2 Seniors and a Junior) backups were Martin, Barber, Huff/Couglin (Freshman, Freshman, Sophomore, Freshman)

The Defensive Backs consisted of Durr, Myrick, Travis, and McGhee (Freshman, Senior, Senior, Junior) with Amoako, Huff, Ayinde listed as backups (only one CB listed as a backup though Alonzo Craighton would play in the game)

The only player listed as a starter for the Washington State game that is still on the roster is Coney Durr who tore his ACL in that game and certainly wasn't the same guy in 2017 and has still struggled with his health in 2018.

Here are the game stats: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2016-12-27-washington-state.html

The first thing that stands out is that Blake Cashman had a fantastic game and was not listed on the two deeps. Blake played a situational role at the time and you could certainly argue that he'd be better playing in a system that allows him to rush the passer and get in the backfield more often like under Claeys. Stilll, Cashman has been our highest graded linebacker in many games this year so he's not exactly the problem. Carter Coughlin also had a productive game, but Carter has been the Gophers most impactful defender this year, so you can't argue the coaches are not using him well. The other players to register statistics in the game that are still on the roster: Coney Durr, Kamal Martin, and Julian Huff. So you have a total of 5 guys still on the roster that played (or at least registered some statistic in that game) and that includes nobody on the defensive line and just one secondary player. Huff/Cashman normally played pass rushing roles for that Gopher team and could be kept fresh because they played 4 veteran linebackers ahead of them (Cody Poock was injured for this game). There is just one secondary player left from that game in Coney Durr and as mentioned before, he had the knee injury in that game and hadn't played a ton before that injury to truly grasp who he was going to be.

This is not a defense of PJ Fleck or Robb Smith, but to suggest the current team is anywhere close to what was on the field for the Holiday Bowl just isn't the case at all. This Gopher defense is terrible, but it's terrible with a different cast of characters than were on the field for that game.

You're missing the point.

That game isn't referenced because the players are the same. That game is referenced because Claeys took a bunch of backups and beat the crap out of one of the best offenses in the country whereas Fleck can't get our defense to perform against anyone as soon as we lose Winfield.

It's referenced to point out Fleck's sheer X's and O's incompetency (which he admits to himself).
 

We all know and agree that Claeys is a far superior DC than Smith.

In case anyone forgot, we fired Claeys the HC, not the DC. The DC from the Holiday Bowl game was just fired at Wake Forest.

Our d-line talent may be the worst in Power 5 football, although I haven’t watched Kansas this year.

I agree 100% Claeys should have been fired, and I believe 100% Robb Smith is a terrible DC at the Power 5 level, in fact, one of the worst.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


but it has been a straight and consistent nose-dive since.
abab315280a48053abbcd79d3311a760.jpg




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fleck has said numerous times they would get worse before they got better. His prop even shows it.

If fans didn’t want to or refused to hear it that’s on them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Fleck has said numerous times they would get worse before they got better. His prop even shows it.

If fans didn’t want to or refused to hear it that’s on them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just want to point out that his chart basically just returns to 8 wins.
 


You're missing the point.

That game isn't referenced because the players are the same. That game is referenced because Claeys took a bunch of backups and beat the crap out of one of the best offenses in the country whereas Fleck can't get our defense to perform against anyone as soon as we lose Winfield.

It's referenced to point out Fleck's sheer X's and O's incompetency (which he admits to himself).

How was it a team of back-ups for Sawvel? The front 7 looks like the same starters we had all year. Plus we had Travis, Myrick and Duke as DBs. Durr replacing Hardin looks like the only change iirc.
 



Pretty sure you’d take 8 wins right about now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sure would. However, given that we've gotten worse every week since PJ got here, I assume that we haven't even hit Fleck's "rock-bottom" yet. Which means that we don't hit 8 wins on his chart until like 2030.
 

How was it a team of back-ups for Sawvel? The front 7 looks like the same starters we had all year. Plus we had Travis, Myrick and Duke as DBs. Durr replacing Hardin looks like the only change iirc.

We were missing: Poock, Hardin, and Winfield as starters and Buford and Shenault as regular contributors.

Yet Claeys somehow figured out a way to compete in that game. Fleck loses one player and the entire defense falls apart.
 

Fleck has said numerous times they would get worse before they got better. His prop even shows it.

If fans didn’t want to or refused to hear it that’s on them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, PJ is right so far. Really really right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

We were missing: Poock, Hardin, and Winfield as starters and Buford and Shenault as regular contributors.

Yet Claeys somehow figured out a way to compete in that game. Fleck loses one player and the entire defense falls apart.

The Holiday Bowl was a great defensive performance. Probably the best we’ve seen in my lifetime. But i find it interesting that you give all the credit to the HC and not the DC. Would it happen to be because the DC has since been fired and it wouldn’t make your argument look good?
 



The Holiday Bowl was a great defensive performance. Probably the best we’ve seen in my lifetime. But i find it interesting that you give all the credit to the HC and not the DC. Would it happen to be because the DC has since been fired and it wouldn’t make your argument look good?

It would happen to be because Claeys ran that defense and everything about it. His stamp was all over it. Go watch Washington State play and you'll see it there as well.
Jay Sawvel ran a poor man's imitation of it at Wake Forest, but there is no mistaking a Claeys defense.

Claeys got a job offer on a top-10 team because of that game.

Jay didn't, Claeys did.
 
Last edited:

We were missing: Poock, Hardin, and Winfield as starters and Buford and Shenault as regular contributors.

Yet Claeys somehow figured out a way to compete in that game. Fleck loses one player and the entire defense falls apart.

What happened in a meaningless bowl game two years ago has nothing to do with what is going on now.

Claeys is a really good DC. He’s gone. He’s not coming back. Rehashing it over and over again won’t change that and won’t make the current D any better.

Fleck and his D staff need to figure it out or eventually they won’t be here either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 




Top Bottom