If Fleck doesn't fire Robb Smith...

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Face The Facts said:
I'm not saying we don't have defensive issues. It's clear we do and Robb Smith can't seem to implement a defense that is tolerable when players aren't all amazing.

However, watching the big plays you see guys who appear to be the ones who are supposed to fill the correct gap to tackle someone and they are getting picked off by lineman as if they never thought they might get blocked.

I don't think anyone enjoys ripping players, but what's going on that every player is losing their battle and not able to get a hand on a runner, or fight a block enough to make the running back move laterally.
It's puzzling and it's really bad and I'd assume part scheme could resolve and part better players could solve, but this is really bad as I think we all agree.
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It appears to me that they are being taught to key on the wrong reads. For example, several times yesterday--including the 1st TD, a lineman pulled and the ILB did not scrape nor follow it. He buried himself in the l.o.s. and got caught in the wash. It appears they key backs and struggle to follow flow. That's coaching.

If they're not coaching that then it's still on the coaches. The players are being allowed to do it with no consequences (being replaced). One may argue the backup may be a less talented player. However, a less talented player, doing things correctly is better than a free lancer costing TDs. Also, the better player gets the message and starts to do things correctly. Once again....coaching.
 
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NotAFanOfBecky said:
FTF I know you are the biggest Fleck defender on here which certainly is fine given its year 2, we have to give him at least 2 more years but you shouldn't defend Smith via PJ. Let them stand alone. I think the vast majority of posters on here are ok with PJ but have a different opinion of Smith.
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I was skeptical of the RS hiring from his days at Arkansas. The issue is there are few signs improvement with the existing players is even happening. Other than the first half vs Indiana which was just okay, there has been very little to point at with even certain players to say "hey, these couple guys are starting to improve".
 

He has to be fired within the next 10 hours, right?
 

GFBfan said:
Haven't seen the game yet. Listened to 4th quarter and post game on my way home. Grim said in the post game that this season we have two of our top 7 worst defensive performances in the history of the program, by giving up 646 today and 659 at Nebraska. So we have that going for us.
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I missed the Nebraska game (fortunately, unfortunately?), but Maryland felt just as bad as today's game.

Giving up a 50+ yard play shouldn't be top of mind on every snap past the 50. When we kicked a fg with 11 seconds to go in the first half, I half jokingly said 'we left too much time.'

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Agree he has to go, but who is realistically going to come and replace him.

No legit coordinator will come to a program to work for a struggling 3rd year coach who probably has only a year or two left.
 


In my 60plus years as a Gopher fan, this was for me one of the most disappointing losses ever. To be sure, poor tackling was a factor, but it seems to me that we were too often out of position to make the play. I thought we would make half-time adjustments to address that, but if there were adjustments, they obviously weren't effective. I recall the concerns when Fleck hired Smith as the defensive coordinator. I believe that yesterday's performance demonstrates that those concerns were well-founded. I tend to be slow to give up on coaches, as I believe that stability is important in building a program, but I find little reason to believe that things are going to improve defensively for the Gophers unless there is a change in the status quo. I don't think the question is whether we need a change in defensive coordinator, but when.
 

EdinaHornet said:
Agree he has to go, but who is realistically going to come and replace him.

No legit coordinator will come to a program to work for a struggling 3rd year coach who probably has only a year or two left.
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Fleck has at least two more years, and with a better defense could be around much longer.

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Face The Facts said:
I was skeptical of the RS hiring from his days at Arkansas. The issue is there are few signs improvement with the existing players is even happening. Other than the first half vs Indiana which was just okay, there has been very little to point at with even certain players to say "hey, these couple guys are starting to improve".
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Aren't the coaches the ones responsible for teaching and developing the players? Yes, the players have responsibility in that, too. But if nobody is developing, as you assert, to me that indicates a coaching issue.

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Hates Monikers said:
Aren't the coaches the ones responsible for teaching and developing the players? Yes, the players have responsibility in that, too. But if nobody is developing, as you assert, to me that indicates a coaching issue.

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It appears so. I'm highly expecting Robb Smith to finish the season. If PJ was a an old defensive coordinator somewhere, I could see him letting him go, but I don't see PJ firing Smith just to take the burden of the defense at this point when he's not a defensive coach like Lovie Smith did.
 




Firing Robb Smith is made difficult by Fleck's philosophy.

If you've been telling players they need to fail to grow, how do you turn around and can their coach?

My gut tells me Smith could resign, but he will not be fired.
 

OddStack said:
It appears to me that they are being taught to key on the wrong reads. For example, several times yesterday--including the 1st TD, a lineman pulled and the ILB did not scrape nor follow it. He buried himself in the l.o.s. and got caught in the wash. It appears they key backs and struggle to follow flow. That's coaching.

If they're not coaching that then it's still on the coaches. The players are being allowed to do it with no consequences (being replaced). One may argue the backup may be a less talented player. However, a less talented player, doing things correctly is better than a free lancer costing TDs. Also, the better player gets the message and starts to do things correctly. Once again....coaching.
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Do you know for a fact what the players are being taught to key on? How do you know the player didn’t read the play wrong, missed his key and getting caught in the wash is all on the player? Do you know for fact the player didn’t do the exact opposite of what they were taught?

I understand Robb Smith and the defensive staff is an easy target but a lot of posters stating facts that they have no idea if it’s true or not.
 

Studwell55 said:
Firing Robb Smith is made difficult by Fleck's philosophy.

If you've been telling players they need to fail to grow, how do you turn around and can their coach?

My gut tells me Smith could resign, but he will not be fired.
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The players will fail and continually fail if they aren't taught/coached properly. You have a bad defensive coach not taking care of fundamentals and running clueless schemes. How can the players learn when all you have are colossal failures. You are bound to lose the players.
 



Studwell55 said:
Firing Robb Smith is made difficult by Fleck's philosophy.

If you've been telling players they need to fail to grow, how do you turn around and can their coach?

My gut tells me Smith could resign, but he will not be fired.
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A Robb Smith "resignation" is fine by me. Whatever it takes to get him out of the program.
 

John Galt said:
He has to be fired within the next 10 hours, right?
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We want it to happen, so it won't. That is the way Gopher football works. Right?

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Studwell55 said:
Firing Robb Smith is made difficult by Fleck's philosophy.

If you've been telling players they need to fail to grow, how do you turn around and can their coach?

My gut tells me Smith could resign, but he will not be fired.
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Good point. However this year's failure is a continuation of last year's sloppy/failure of an ending. One can argue Smith successfully failed at Maine and Arkansas. (Let me know if I need to post those statistics for again.) Thus, it can be supported that learning from failure is not happening with him.

If Fleck doesn't realize this, then he is incapable of growing through this failure and THAT IS DISTURBING!
 

OddStack said:
Good point. However this year's failure is a continuation of last year's sloppy/failure of an ending. One can argue Smith successfully failed at Maine and Arkansas. (Let me know if I need to post those statistics for again.) Thus, it can be supported that learning from failure is not happening with him.

If Fleck doesn't realize this, then he is incapable of growing through this failure and THAT IS DISTURBING!
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I think Fleck wanted to hope for the best for Robb Smith, but it isn't working despite the lack of talent. They shouldn't be this bad.
 

Face The Facts said:
I think Fleck wanted to hope for the best for Robb Smith, but it isn't working despite the lack of talent. They shouldn't be this bad.
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I agree. Fleck shouldn't have pulled the trigger based on last year. Studwell's post was his gut says he won't fire him and that Smith will resign. That might be true. My intention was if Fleck doesn't have the guts to fire him, we've got a big problem on our hands!

Even Claeys was strong enough to fire Limegrover which, I'm guessing, couldn't have been easy after working together for 2 decades.
 

vagopher said:
In my 60plus years as a Gopher fan, this was for me one of the most disappointing losses ever. To be sure, poor tackling was a factor, but it seems to me that we were too often out of position to make the play. I thought we would make half-time adjustments to address that, but if there were adjustments, they obviously weren't effective. I recall the concerns when Fleck hired Smith as the defensive coordinator. I believe that yesterday's performance demonstrates that those concerns were well-founded. I tend to be slow to give up on coaches, as I believe that stability is important in building a program, but I find little reason to believe that things are going to improve defensively for the Gophers unless there is a change in the status quo. I don't think the question is whether we need a change in defensive coordinator, but when.
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Cannot man up blocks on the Dline, linebackers blowing assignments not on same page. A free safety that is slow cannot tackle. This is 2007 on repeat loop.

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West Fargo Gopher Fan said:
In the end it might not be Flecks decision to make. Fleck might be told Robb Smith is gone
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I'd have mixed feelings.

PJ needs to be the one to make coaching changes, not .... the AD. I'd hate to have Coyle or someone imposing coaching changes, even if I liked their choice.
 



A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I'd have mixed feelings.

PJ needs to be the one to make coaching changes, not .... the AD. I'd hate to have Coyle or someone imposing coaching changes, even if I liked their choice.
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The AD can't be calling the shots on defensive coordinator but I am sure there will be discussions.
 

Hiring this clown is Fleck’s most glaring error since he arrived, and it very well could cost him his own job unless he corrects that error soon. I think PJ is a pretty smart guy, so I predict he will eventually let Smith go to save his own ass.


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PitinoFan said:
Hiring this clown is Fleck’s most glaring error since he arrived, and it very well could cost him his own job unless he corrects that error soon. I think PJ is a pretty smart guy, so I predict he will eventually let Smith go to save his own ass.


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Ironic, because hiring a clown was also the weasel Coyle’s biggest mistake.
 

If he does fire Smith, what are the odds that "this is year 0 for our defense" get uttered by the coach in at least one press conference next year?
 


OddStack said:
It appears to me that they are being taught to key on the wrong reads. For example, several times yesterday--including the 1st TD, a lineman pulled and the ILB did not scrape nor follow it. He buried himself in the l.o.s. and got caught in the wash. It appears they key backs and struggle to follow flow. That's coaching.

If they're not coaching that then it's still on the coaches. The players are being allowed to do it with no consequences (being replaced). One may argue the backup may be a less talented player. However, a less talented player, doing things correctly is better than a free lancer costing TDs. Also, the better player gets the message and starts to do things correctly. Once again....coaching.
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Nail + hammer.

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gopherdudepart2 said:
Nail + hammer.

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+1

I don't care what anyone says... if the gophers picked these players off the streets last week, then fine but what have these defensive coaches been teaching these kids all year? Obviously not enough.
 

To me the most damning thing with Robb is he had pretty good recruits to work with at Arkansas but their defenses became worse and worse, somewhere in the 70s or 80s IIRC despite talent. Same thing happening here. It doesn’t even matter on the nuts and bolts - he’s got to go. New blood, new leadership.
 

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