If Fleck doesn't fire Robb Smith...

This game closely matches our 2015 loss at home vs Nebraska 48-25. Nebraska was a little better than Illinois, but we were playing at home in the game.
Nebraska was 6-7 that year and went to (and won) a bowl game. Illinois is terrible. They thank god for Rutgers and Minnesota.

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I'm glad you're deciding to be patient.

Well I don't really have a choice. Fleck will be here for a couple more years as he is tied to Coyle, but let's be honest if you are saying that you just haven't brought in the talent yet to compete with Lovie's Illinois squad then your ceiling is pretty low even when you get a little more experience and talent here. I've been patient leaning toward negative, but today was a pretty clear sign that even when we get the aged talent in here, we can maybe expect 5 to 6 wins. That just isn't gonna be enough.
 

Well I don't really have a choice. Fleck will be here for a couple more years as he is tied to Coyle, but let's be honest if you are saying that you just haven't brought in the talent yet to compete with Lovie's Illinois squad then your ceiling is pretty low even when you get a little more experience and talent here. I've been patient leaning toward negative, but today was a pretty clear sign that even when we get the aged talent in here, we can maybe expect 5 to 6 wins. That just isn't gonna be enough.

5-6 wins is now the ceiling when Fleck reached that in his first season with a previous coaches players?
 

Jeff Knowles, DC at Northern Illinois. Illinois native.


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If Fleck fires Smith I think he’ll wait til the season is over. Fleck preaches continuity too much to do it in season.


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3rd and 1, we have no one right over the slot receiver. LB was split between the slot and OT. QB gets that snap, throws it immediately to the slot guy who gets an easy 3 yards and a first down.

Before a play, I told my wife Illinois is going to get a big gain if they run the ball. We had just 5 in the box with a LB playing close to the slot receiver. It was obvious we were out manned from the start. Luckily Coughlin made a shoe string tackle or it’s probably another 70+ run.

The talent isn’t great on defense but it’s obvious to me there’s a big issue with scheme. Today was beyond embarrassing. Smith has to go.

I just tortured myself and re-watched the first two long Illini TD runs.
* On TD #1, Gophers run a straight-up 3-4 which should be an OK scheme but 3 Gophers got man-handled on their blocks (LT, OLB, FS) and the remaining Safety whiffed on the tackle - Illini RB houses it.
* On TD#2, Gophers switch to a hybrid 4-3 which should be an OK scheme but 4 Gophers get manhandled on their blocks (LT, LE, MLB, FS), the SS bites on the fake and gets out of position to make the play in the second level plus gets blocked by the ref - Illini RB houses it.

In both of the above, the defensive schemes were OK but every Gopher who could make a play either got beat physically or made poor choices. These are just 2 plays but they represent a bunch of plays this year. The Gopher defense needs both an upgrade in talent and an upgrade in fundamentals = Fleck needs to recruit better talent and Smith (or whoever is DC) needs to improve coaching defensive fundamentals no matter what scheme is run.
 

Common PJ, get that beaver out of the boat now. He is gnawing a bigger hole and the boat is taking in water and sinking fast!
 

Maybe its just me, but I have always had an automatic skepticism of someone
who comes into a situation, completely erases the previous regime and all its vestiges
(even the good), and only wants to do things their own way, with no input from
anyone else. They just Know it All, and nobody can convince them differently.

Go with youth....recruit replacements for the guys you just recruited....throw the
returning juniors and seniors under the bus.

You know, sometimes you do recruit more talented players, but you rely on the
maturity and stability of the upperclassmen.

In the MAC, its much easier to go thru a youth movement and play freshmen and
redshirt freshmen and potentially see them grow and compete and succeed.

In the BIG, however, its a much more physical league, and playing freshmen all the time
over-exposes them physically. Then you have injuries....and more injuries...and players
that had potential never make it to their senior seasons. Had upperclassmen been eating
up playing time while they were developing it would be much healthier and less risky.

Kill and Claeys had a solid culture, in case its hard to remember. It was based on hard
work, accountability, and the other things that we know work.

If Fleck turns this around I will tip my hat to him, but I've been watching Gopher Football
since the early 1970s and I've seen this dance before.

All we need to a solid, proven, hard-nosed head coach who stresses solid fundamentals. If
you have that you can at least compete with anyone. Once you lose that, you cant compete
with anybody.

To suggest that the defense is anything other than a complete dumpster fire is idiocy. One only
needs to look at the video of the Bowl Game vs Washington State. The schemes, the fundamentals,
the tackling, etc, etc....was light years beyond what we have now.

Watch it....I invite everyone to....again. It wasn't that long ago. All any of us really have is time,
and seasons are being wasted, never to have back again. You honor all the kids in the program by
striving to have the best team possible each and every season. If a coach tells you to wait 3-4 years,
he might as well be telling us something else. "Call us when you get serious" should be what the fans
should say.

For the first time in memory, the U actually shelled out the money for a coach and facilities that should enable us
to really compete, but it appears its being blown.

The regression is stunning. It did not have to be this way. Only single-mindedness and stubbornness have brought
us this far. If Fleck was being paid less than Claeys, this wouldn't bother me because we were getting what we've
paid for. When you shell out what the U is for this guy, you should expect more.

I hope I'm wrong....I've been wrong before. I would be happy to be this time. But my thoughts are telling me
a rough story for this program.

The trouble is, head football coaches are often chosen by people who often REALLY don't have a true grasp of the subject
matter that's required for hiring a million dollar-plus executive/coach.
 

I am still perplexed why he hired Smith when he had a dismal record everywhere except the first season at Arkansas. Did he get Bret Bilema fired?

Look at his coaching resume'... he's a Fleck buddy from Rutgers, Tampa Bay, etc..
 



Well, the offense is no great shakes either so...he could be history by year 4 anyway. Best case scenario IMO is the offense keeps getting better, PJ is able to hang onto some nice looking defensive recruits until this December, then fires the defensive staff and beings in a new coordinator that can hopefully do a better job. Defense starts trending up, offense trending up and all is well. It’s clear though that winter is coming for this defensive staff. They’re not good.

The offense has scored a decent amount of points with a helluva lot more freshman than the defense has to work with.
Kirk Ciaroccha is one of the reasons why I liked the Fleck hire. He had a rocky start with a skimpy playbook but it's gotten
better, more open and hopefully continues to do so....this largely without a upper classmen at the skill positions.
but for Robb Smith to have players that nearly blanked a juggernaut WSU offense two years ago, give up 50+ to some
pathetic teams... is 100% inexcusable and he needs to be held accountable.
 

The offense has scored a decent amount of points with a helluva lot more freshman than the defense has to work with.
Kirk Ciaroccha is one of the reasons why I liked the Fleck hire. He had a rocky start with a skimpy playbook but it's gotten
better, more open and hopefully continues to do so....this largely without a upper classmen at the skill positions.
but for Robb Smith to have players that nearly blanked a juggernaut WSU offense two years ago, give up 50+ to some
pathetic teams... is 100% inexcusable and he needs to be held accountable.

The only starter from that game that plays today is Durr. It's an entirely different defense.
 
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PJ has to make the move and make the change. There is no way Robb Smith is the DC after this season. The schedule does not get easier and have to make major defensive changes anyway to correct these errors. Promote the best guy on the staff for the job and see what they can do. There is no positive spin for staying the course with this mess in the locker room or with fans. Correct the mistake now and move forward.
 

5-6 wins is now the ceiling when Fleck reached that in his first season with a previous coaches players?

Well yeah. We heard today that we just didn't have the athletes today. We can get better athletes, but if this group isn't good enough with this staff to compete with Illinois, do you honestly think we can get athletes good enough to win 9 or 10 games?
 



Well yeah. We heard today that we just didn't have the athletes today. We can get better athletes, but if this group isn't good enough with this staff to compete with Illinois, do you honestly think we can get athletes good enough to win 9 or 10 games?

Yeah it'll happen somewhere between 2019-2021.
 

Nebraska was 6-7 that year and went to (and won) a bowl game. Illinois is terrible. They thank god for Rutgers and Minnesota.

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So if Illinois wins 1 of the next 3 it means they are the nearly identical regular season to that Nebraska team
 





Gophers gave up 42 to Maryland, 48 to Iowa, 53 to Nebraska and 55 to Illinois (who saw that coming?). This is beginning to look like Wacker - or Salem's last year.
 


Well I don't really have a choice. Fleck will be here for a couple more years as he is tied to Coyle, but let's be honest if you are saying that you just haven't brought in the talent yet to compete with Lovie's Illinois squad then your ceiling is pretty low even when you get a little more experience and talent here. I've been patient leaning toward negative, but today was a pretty clear sign that even when we get the aged talent in here, we can maybe expect 5 to 6 wins. That just isn't gonna be enough.

I'm not saying we don't have defensive issues. It's clear we do and Robb Smith can't seem to implement a defense that is tolerable when players aren't all amazing.

However, watching the big plays you see guys who appear to be the ones who are supposed to fill the correct gap to tackle someone and they are getting picked off by lineman as if they never thought they might get blocked.

I don't think anyone enjoys ripping players, but what's going on that every player is losing their battle and not able to get a hand on a runner, or fight a block enough to make the running back move laterally.
It's puzzling and it's really bad and I'd assume part scheme could resolve and part better players could solve, but this is really bad as I think we all agree.
 

I hear Washington State's defense is pretty good. They're a top 25 team. Maybe we should give that DC a call.
 

I'm not saying we don't have defensive issues. It's clear we do and Robb Smith can't seem to implement a defense that is tolerable when players aren't all amazing.

However, watching the big plays you see guys who appear to be the ones who are supposed to fill the correct gap to tackle someone and they are getting picked off by lineman as if they never thought they might get blocked.

I don't think anyone enjoys ripping players, but what's going on that every player is losing their battle and not able to get a hand on a runner, or fight a block enough to make the running back move laterally.
It's puzzling and it's really bad and I'd assume part scheme could resolve and part better players could solve, but this is really bad as I think we all agree.

Coaching. Very bad coaching.
 


I hear Washington State's defense is pretty good. They're a top 25 team. Maybe we should give that DC a call.

Sure would be nice. Unfortunately he is at a better team (top 10 actually), with a better HC, and apparently has all super fast and super talented recruits.


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I just tortured myself and re-watched the first two long Illini TD runs.
* On TD #1, Gophers run a straight-up 3-4 which should be an OK scheme but 3 Gophers got man-handled on their blocks (LT, OLB, FS) and the remaining Safety whiffed on the tackle - Illini RB houses it.
* On TD#2, Gophers switch to a hybrid 4-3 which should be an OK scheme but 4 Gophers get manhandled on their blocks (LT, LE, MLB, FS), the SS bites on the fake and gets out of position to make the play in the second level plus gets blocked by the ref - Illini RB houses it.

In both of the above, the defensive schemes were OK but every Gopher who could make a play either got beat physically or made poor choices. These are just 2 plays but they represent a bunch of plays this year. The Gopher defense needs both an upgrade in talent and an upgrade in fundamentals = Fleck needs to recruit better talent and Smith (or whoever is DC) needs to improve coaching defensive fundamentals no matter what scheme is run.

I just started watching the game....out of morbid curiosity.
Don't agree with you on the scheme being ok on both plays. On the first Illini have 3 WR to the right and one wide left. We're in our base D, and have Kamal Martin lined up like a safety over the #2 WR with Thomas Barber splitting diff. between Tackle and Inside WR. Martin on the play is nowhere to be found on a running play. He looks to be dropping into pass coverage 10 yards back and almost to the sideline. What scheme has a LB doing that against a QB who is NOT a thrower. Barber is a middle LB who is lined up like an OLB taking him out of his area strength. He reads run, takes on the pulling tackle but there is no inside help. Huff the safety who missed the tackle was first responsible for the deep half opposite the play on the snap he rolls into coverage almost to the numbers away from the play and is unable to get across the field to make tackle. I would say scheme was more responsible for this long run than player execution.
 

WSU, #10 team in the country with a head coach and DC that just weren't good enough for a UMN athletic director. Our problems are systemic.
 

WSU, #10 team in the country with a head coach and DC that just weren't good enough for a UMN athletic director. Our problems are systemic.
This is good. Let it out.

How does that make you feel?
 

This is good. Let it out.

How does that make you feel?

FTF I know you are the biggest Fleck defender on here which certainly is fine given its year 2, we have to give him at least 2 more years but you shouldn't defend Smith via PJ. Let them stand alone. I think the vast majority of posters on here are ok with PJ but have a different opinion of Smith.
 




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