Fleck "It's all on me"

What's on him is supporting a defensive scheme and system that doesn't work with the personnel he has and then wanting a pass on that because the kids aren't ready. A good coach could design a scheme his defense could execute now and refine it to something else when better personnel become available. What Fleck is doing is equivalent to the Cavaliers continuing to run isolations for Lebron after he has already left for the Lakers and then saying "The system works, we just don't have the personnel in place to make it work."

Kill had put his stamp on the gopher defense by this time in the progression, I guess you could argue we are seeing PJ's stamp on the offense so far, but this defense is in shambles right now. Really no choice but to give it another year and see where it goes.

Revisionist history.

Year 2 for Kill/Claeys and the hallowed defensive scheme

Started non-conf. Season 4-0 (sound familiar)

B10season started with 3 losses (familiar)
L Iowa 13-31
L Northwestern 13-21
L Wisconsin 13-38

Win vs Purdue 44-28

L Michigan 13-35

Win vs Illinois 17-3

L Nebraska 14-38
L Michigan St. 10-26

2-6 overall in B10 with 2 wins over Purdue (who fired their coach) & Illinois (year 1of the Tim Beckman disaster)

Not exactly lock down defense giving up 26+ points in 6 of 8 B10 games

How is “ Kill had put his imprint at this point” any different than Fleck in year 2?




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Speaking of injuries, Fleck used to say how their strength and conditioning program and the way they run practices was going to really help with keeping the players healthy. Seems to be a rough year for injuries.

All coaches say the same thing. Kill said it too. Along with his S&C coach being the best in the business. It’s all coach speak (ie BS)

What else are they going to say? We have no idea how to prevent injuries?




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You mean like Adam Beck and KHH? Where are Ray Estes and Justus Harris? Not all these terrible lack-of-depth issues can be pinned on the previous staff.


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I literally just said I wish they did a better job
 

The defense sucks. Part of it is talent, part of it is coaching. I have no idea what that percentage is. What I do know is there's barely any all-conference or NFL talent on that side of the ball right now. Coughlin, perhaps? Winfield clearly, but he's not playing. I don't see anyone else right now. So I'm sorry, but the talent sucks. The coaching probably does too, but I can't say that with as much certainty.

I think we all agree that Tracy Claeys was a genius, but they also had a helluva lot of talent on that side of the ball and they had 5 years to fit players into their system. Part of their success was undoubtedly talent development, but part of it was hitting on great recruits. It's not like they were pumping out NFL players at NIU, so it's not all attritutable to talent development. "Coached up" guys only last so long in the NFL -- you need big time ability to stick. Look how many guys from that Claeys era have earned an NFL paycheck: Hageman, Campbell, Wilson, BBC, Murray, Travis, Myrick, Richardson. At any one time they usually had 4+ NFL players on defense. If they would've had that on O as well, we'd have at least one West division title.

PJ has the opposite problem right now. I think he sees a future where we've got 4+ on both sides of the ball. I hope he's right, but I have no idea. I just know the defense sucks and I hope it gets fixed.
 

What's on him is supporting a defensive scheme and system that doesn't work with the personnel he has and then wanting a pass on that because the kids aren't ready. A good coach could design a scheme his defense could execute now and refine it to something else when better personnel become available. What Fleck is doing is equivalent to the Cavaliers continuing to run isolations for Lebron after he has already left for the Lakers and then saying "The system works, we just don't have the personnel in place to make it work."

Kill had put his stamp on the gopher defense by this time in the progression, I guess you could argue we are seeing PJ's stamp on the offense so far, but this defense is in shambles right now. Really no choice but to give it another year and see where it goes.


Even with Saturday's production on offense, that's a pretty tough argument to make at this point.
 


Revisionist history.

Year 2 for Kill/Claeys and the hallowed defensive scheme

Started non-conf. Season 4-0 (sound familiar)

B10season started with 3 losses (familiar)
L Iowa 13-31
L Northwestern 13-21
L Wisconsin 13-38

Win vs Purdue 44-28

L Michigan 13-35

Win vs Illinois 17-3

L Nebraska 14-38
L Michigan St. 10-26

2-6 overall in B10 with 2 wins over Purdue (who fired their coach) & Illinois (year 1of the Tim Beckman disaster)

Not exactly lock down defense giving up 26+ points in 6 of 8 B10 games

How is “ Kill had put his imprint at this point” any different than Fleck in year 2?




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The scoring defense ranking went from 93 (2011), to 45 (2012), to 25 (2013).
 

Giving some credit to Kill and Claeys does not mean taking it away from Fleck. this is not a zero-sum game.

It's not like there is a finite amount of credit, and any credit given to a former coach is stealing it away from the current coach.

some people on this board act like any mention of a previous coach is a personal affront against the current staff.

The Guardians of the Fleck Legacy are a determined bunch.
 

Revisionist history.

Year 2 for Kill/Claeys and the hallowed defensive scheme

Started non-conf. Season 4-0 (sound familiar)

B10season started with 3 losses (familiar)
L Iowa 13-31
L Northwestern 13-21
L Wisconsin 13-38

Win vs Purdue 44-28

L Michigan 13-35

Win vs Illinois 17-3

L Nebraska 14-38
L Michigan St. 10-26

2-6 overall in B10 with 2 wins over Purdue (who fired their coach) & Illinois (year 1of the Tim Beckman disaster)

Not exactly lock down defense giving up 26+ points in 6 of 8 B10 games

How is “ Kill had put his imprint at this point” any different than Fleck in year 2?




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tra·jec·to·ry
/trəˈjekt(ə)rē/Submit

noun

1.the path followed by a projectile flying or an object moving under the action of given forces.

"the missile's trajectory was preset"

synonyms: course, path, route, track, line, orbit

"the missile's trajectory"
 

Fleck "It's all on me"

Giving some credit to Kill and Claeys does not mean taking it away from Fleck. this is not a zero-sum game.

It's not like there is a finite amount of credit, and any credit given to a former coach is stealing it away from the current coach.

some people on this board act like any mention of a previous coach is a personal affront against the current staff.

The Guardians of the Fleck Legacy are a determined bunch.

Hilarious.

This board is loaded with members still kneeling at the Altar of Kill and followers of the Cult of Claeys pining for the glory days.

Everything in your post could be changed from current to former coach.

The Guardians of the Kill/Claeys Legacy are a determined bunch.
 
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Hilarious.

This board is loaded with members still kneeling at the Altar of Kill and followers of the Cult of Claeys pining for the glory days.

Everything in your post could be changed from current to former coach.

The Guardians of the Kill/Claeys Legacy are a determined bunch.

The main difference between those to groups is that one looks to actual records and performance to support their argument, the other tries to avoid using any objective measures of performance.
 

"It's all on me" is true coach speak. He can't say anything else. Firing Smith or any other member of the staff mid-season would be totally against his RTB philosophy. However, PJ was part of the problem at Nebraska. I was there. When the Gophers made it 28-22, you could hear a pin drop in that stadium. Nebraska's penalty problems had returned and their fans were truly nervous. Even after they scored another long, quick, touchdown...the Gophers drove right back down the field again. Now...the defense was terrible, but they had played better in the 3rd quarter. PJ showed his youth and inexperience by coaching with the wrong brain. Instead of kicking a field goal and showing a steady hand, he went for a long fourth down and it didn't work. After stopping the Huskers, they drove down the field again but still eschewed the field goal and failed on fourth and goal. Two field goals and it would've been 36-28 with an entire quarter to go. A coach has to look at the big picture. Failing on those fourth downs showed the defense that he had no confidence in them. As head coach, you can't do that!! You make it a one score game and you look the defense in the eye and say, go get em boys! Instead he threw them, and the game, under the bus. Don't get me wrong, I'm still rowing the boat. I'll be there Friday in the rain, cheering till I'm hoarse. PJ is going to be a be a very good, possibly great, head coach. But no one needs to learn more from Saturday's game than him.

They only failed on 4th down once in the 2nd half. Nebraska then drove down to kick a field goal and make it 39-22. Then Douglas had the long kickoff return, followed by Morgan's INT in the endzone.

The other failed 4th down was in the first half when they were down 21-0.
 
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Giving some credit to Kill and Claeys does not mean taking it away from Fleck. this is not a zero-sum game.

It's not like there is a finite amount of credit, and any credit given to a former coach is stealing it away from the current coach.

some people on this board act like any mention of a previous coach is a personal affront against the current staff.

The Guardians of the Fleck Legacy are a determined bunch.
Just to be clear I do give credit to the previous staff for what they accomplished. 9 wins was a nice and surprising result to the last season. But I do recall a point in time during that season where a close shave victory put many on this board into a fit also. But the former staff are no longer here, so time to move on

We are in year 2 of the current coach. Need to let them work their system. PJ is young and is making some mistakes. That happens. Some on this board make it sound like Kill had them in track for the Rose Bowl in year 2. I merely pointed out that the program was not in puppy dog and rainbow territory at a similar point as the program today.

All should calm down.

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The main difference between those to groups is that one looks to actual records and performance to support their argument, the other tries to avoid using any objective measures of performance.

And one staff was here 6 years the other 1.5 years. Let it play out a few more years before claiming victory on that 40% conference winning performance.
 


Revisionist history.

Year 2 for Kill/Claeys and the hallowed defensive scheme

Started non-conf. Season 4-0 (sound familiar)

B10season started with 3 losses (familiar)
L Iowa 13-31
L Northwestern 13-21
L Wisconsin 13-38

Win vs Purdue 44-28

L Michigan 13-35

Win vs Illinois 17-3

L Nebraska 14-38
L Michigan St. 10-26

2-6 overall in B10 with 2 wins over Purdue (who fired their coach) & Illinois (year 1of the Tim Beckman disaster)

Not exactly lock down defense giving up 26+ points in 6 of 8 B10 games

How is “ Kill had put his imprint at this point” any different than Fleck in year 2?




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Yeah it was not a great or even all that good a year by any means:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Minnesota_Golden_Gophers_football_team
 

I think most of the folks here that are trying to support the current staff would have been supporting Kill in year two as well.
I think had Kill’s health not been an issue the team would have continued to improve and would have been a solid program.
I want to see the the team succeed and plan on supporting Fleck and the team. There is no way to go back and fix Kill’s health or undo Norwood (except maybe lower or eliminate the donations).
Hopefully the Gophers get a win on Friday and build on that.
 

Giving some credit to Kill and Claeys does not mean taking it away from Fleck. this is not a zero-sum game.

It's not like there is a finite amount of credit, and any credit given to a former coach is stealing it away from the current coach.

some people on this board act like any mention of a previous coach is a personal affront against the current staff.

The Guardians of the Fleck Legacy are a determined bunch.

And the group pining for Kill/Claeys is just as determined to undermine and bash a coach who has been here for 1.5 seasons because they feel the old group would have somehow managed to take a Demry Croft led team to the promised land last year.

I don't know if Fleck will ultimately succeed here or not but it is amazing to see how determined some are in here to see him fail. Claeys was never a long term solution, he was thrust into a position he was not comfortable with because of Kill's health problems. There is a reason he went back to being a DC again and it won't surprise me one bit if he is never a head coach again because he is really good at being a Defensive Coordinator at a high level school.
 

And the group pining for Kill/Claeys is just as determined to undermine and bash a coach who has been here for 1.5 seasons because they feel the old group would have somehow managed to take a Demry Croft led team to the promised land last year.

I don't know if Fleck will ultimately succeed here or not but it is amazing to see how determined some are in here to see him fail. Claeys was never a long term solution, he was thrust into a position he was not comfortable with because of Kill's health problems. There is a reason he went back to being a DC again and it won't surprise me one bit if he is never a head coach again because he is really good at being a Defensive Coordinator at a high level school.

You think we are determined to see him fail? I would love nothing more than for us to be halfway through a great season en route to a prolific career by Fleck.
 

You think we are determined to see him fail? I would love nothing more than for us to be halfway through a great season en route to a prolific career by Fleck.
This ^^^^^^^^
There is nothing anyone can do about the past. We have to move forward. I hope that Fleck creates a dynasty here at Minnesota. The "it's 100% on me" schtick is old. Of course it's 100% on Fleck. Everyone in the room knows it's on Fleck. Now...what is he going to do about fixing it? Is he going to just keep repeating the same thing in hopes of a different result, or is he going to game plan differently with the personnel he currently has?
How is Robb Smith going to fix the mess he's in? If he can't, then replace Smith with someone who can.
Kill and Claeys are gone. That era is over. We move on.
 

And the group pining for Kill/Claeys is just as determined to undermine and bash a coach who has been here for 1.5 seasons because they feel the old group would have somehow managed to take a Demry Croft led team to the promised land last year.

I don't know if Fleck will ultimately succeed here or not but it is amazing to see how determined some are in here to see him fail. Claeys was never a long term solution, he was thrust into a position he was not comfortable with because of Kill's health problems. There is a reason he went back to being a DC again and it won't surprise me one bit if he is never a head coach again because he is really good at being a Defensive Coordinator at a high level school.

You think any criticism of Fleck is because people are "pining" for Kill or Claeys? Missed all of the Gophers Big Ten games since Nebraska of last year, or just think Fleck is above criticism?

Fleck doesn't think so, but as a Head Coach he's still very young..
 


This ^^^^^^^^
There is nothing anyone can do about the past. We have to move forward. I hope that Fleck creates a dynasty here at Minnesota. The "it's 100% on me" schtick is old. Of course it's 100% on Fleck. Everyone in the room knows it's on Fleck. Now...what is he going to do about fixing it? Is he going to just keep repeating the same thing in hopes of a different result, or is he going to game plan differently with the personnel he currently has?
How is Robb Smith going to fix the mess he's in? If he can't, then replace Smith with someone who can.
Kill and Claeys are gone. That era is over. We move on.

To the line in bold, I agree 100% but I also think there is a subset of our fanbase that can't/won't move on.

As for the rest, I love the assumption that none of these things are happening because the coach doesn't discuss them with the media. You are not going to get the answers to these questions from basically any high level coach anywhere. But just because he isn't breaking it down for everyone doesn't mean it isn't happening behind the scenes. Losing sucks and we all hate it but at the same time this team was not expected to be a contender this year and that is what is playing out on the field. It is frustrating to keep looking to the future but with a new coach that is the only fair thing to do.

As it is with most things the majority get it while the very vocal extremes on each side yell at each other :)
 


Dang it, there goes an afternoon watching Monty Python videos.....haven't thought of that routine in years....

I'm watching "Best of Monty Python" on Netflix right now. Upper Class Twit of the Year actually.
 

The edge of our defense is not wide enough in the front 4. Like to see more rotation to keep smaller guys from getting gassed. Allowing Oline to get there hands on our guys to quick. The spacing of the linebackers keep bunching up, we have to many people shifting in to gaps they have no business being in, be disciplined maintain your lane, attack the block and rally to the ball. Instead of getting a hat on a hat, we are getting backers bunching up inside out of position crawling over each other. Gopher linebacker play must improve. Earlier we were leaving the middle wide open, now we are bunching there. Howden is plenty fast, just needs to trust what he is seeing and get in front of it. Getting real tired of seeing Gophers play on their heels, defense is played with emotion, not apathy. T Smith the corner there have been times he has been in position to make a pick. He needs to trust his eyes and believe what he is seeing and Go make a play on the ball. Martin and Barber are all over the place, in a Chinese fire drill, both need to calm down, read your keys on the offensive line. What is the pad level of the down lineman, what does the motion mean, that slight difference reading things and trying to figure it out will allow everyone else to be in the correct spots. We have good athletes, they are too down on themselves. Defense has to play better.

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And the group pining for Kill/Claeys is just as determined to undermine and bash a coach who has been here for 1.5 seasons because they feel the old group would have somehow managed to take a Demry Croft led team to the promised land last year.
I don't know if Fleck will ultimately succeed here or not but it is amazing to see how determined some are in here to see him fail ..

I don't want to see the team fail because I've seen too much of that. I just don't like this guy. Let's start with this name, "PJ". Every time I hear that name I think of that little baby from family circus. Does he have an adult name?. He's a phony. If the year was 1984 he would probably be peddling a set of self improvement videos or books that nobody buys. … and I don't like they way he seems to treat his players like children. This is college football isn't it? I would love to have PJ coach 4th grade kids, but the man seems so out of place coaching a Big Ten team.
 

This mess is on Coyle and Kaler.

It is not on Fleck. Fleck is who he is. Brewster is who he is.
 

This mess is on Coyle and Kaler.

It is not on Fleck. Fleck is who he is. Brewster is who he is.

Criticize Fleck all you want. No issue there. However, if this is a comparison to Brewster its ridiculous and lazy.
 





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