Perspective

EG#9

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After a thoroughly disappointing day capped by Purdue rendering last weeks "feel good" moment meaningless by taking Ohio State out in a huge upset, I was curious to see when Gopher fans last had an opportunity to storm the field. Literally every program seems to at least luck in to a huge upset every once in awhile...right? Well, I went back through the records as I knew the Gophers had no such opportunity in their decade at TCF and would you believe there was never an opportunity at the Metrodome either? The Gophers are on their second STADIUM of time without a home win over a big time opponent. How about this? Since the year 2000, the Gophers have just TWO wins against teams ranked in the TOP 20: once at Ohio State in 2000 and again in 2005 over a Purdue team that turned out to be terrible (5-6 overall). Do you realize the Gophers have not won in Iowa City (not Columbus....Iowa City!) since 1999? I am sure everyone is aware by now that the Gophers have not finished in the top 3 of the conference nor defeated a team that would go on to finish in the top 3 of conference in more than 20 years.

Some posters wish Jerry Kill was the coach. Jerry Kill started out 2-6 and 2-6 in conference play in his first two years. Of those 12 conference losses, 10 were by more than 2 touchdowns. He also lost to New Mexico State, North Dakota State, and needed triple overtime to defeat a UNLV team that would finish the year 2-11 in those first two years. The high point of his tenure was a fantastic win at Nebraska and that came in his 4th season. He's credited with a 14-21 conference record at Minnesota. West divison (not conference, just division) finishes were 6th, tied 5th, 4th, tied 2nd, tied 4th. Never beat Wisconsin, losing record against Iowa.

Some people still bring up Glen Mason for some reason. Depressingly, Glen Mason had the exact same conference winning percentage as Jerry Kill (40). He had a decade to show that he could at least occasionally contend for a conference title. During his tenure only the Gophers and Indiana failed to finish 3rd or better in the conference standings at least once. Losing records against Iowa and Wisconsin and the gap was widening as his tenure lengthened.

I can hear people now saying "forty percent sure sounds a lot better than the fifteen percent Mr Row The Boat is at". It certainly is, and if all you aspire to is winning forty percent of the games then I guess this post isn't for you. But also keep in mind that Mason's first two seasons were 1-7 and 2-6 in conference play and as previously mentioned Kill went 2-6 and 2-6. So even if forty percent is acceptable to you, recent Gopher history suggest Fleck isn't far off from the trajectory of those who "achieved" that.

Nebraska was a complete disaster and I've seen more than enough of Robb Smith's defense, but Fleck is less than two years removed from being considered one of the top up and coming coaches in the nation. Given Gopher history does it make sense to mock him when he's lost arguably his best player on both sides of the ball to injury? Is it really any surprise that Gopher football is bad in a year where they are starting a true Freshman QB and between 4-6 other Freshman on offense? I can't remember another year where the Gophers, or any team, has lost their two best players (I am sure it's happened somewhere), but I can remember a lot of years where the Gophers were just as bad as they have been this year.

I don't know if Fleck is the guy, I hope he is but after years and years of disappointment as a Gopher fan (I really feel for those of you 40 plus fans that have experienced even more and especially those of you who travel to watch this team year after year) it's tough to believe. But that's not Fleck's fault, it's the fault of those that came before him. He deserves more than 1.5 years to turn around 50 years of failure. Nebraska sucked today and relevance feels a long way away right now, but does it feel further away than when we were losing 45-17 to Purdue in 2011? It probably doesn't, we've just all tried to erase that memory.
 

After a thoroughly disappointing day capped by Purdue rendering last weeks "feel good" moment meaningless by taking Ohio State out in a huge upset, I was curious to see when Gopher fans last had an opportunity to storm the field. Literally every program seems to at least luck in to a huge upset every once in awhile...right? Well, I went back through the records as I knew the Gophers had no such opportunity in their decade at TCF and would you believe there was never an opportunity at the Metrodome either? The Gophers are on their second STADIUM of time without a home win over a big time opponent. How about this? Since the year 2000, the Gophers have just TWO wins against teams ranked in the TOP 20: once at Ohio State in 2000 and again in 2005 over a Purdue team that turned out to be terrible (5-6 overall). Do you realize the Gophers have not won in Iowa City (not Columbus....Iowa City!) since 1999? I am sure everyone is aware by now that the Gophers have not finished in the top 3 of the conference nor defeated a team that would go on to finish in the top 3 of conference in more than 20 years.

Some posters wish Jerry Kill was the coach. Jerry Kill started out 2-6 and 2-6 in conference play in his first two years. Of those 12 conference losses, 10 were by more than 2 touchdowns. He also lost to New Mexico State, North Dakota State, and needed triple overtime to defeat a UNLV team that would finish the year 2-11 in those first two years. The high point of his tenure was a fantastic win at Nebraska and that came in his 4th season. He's credited with a 14-21 conference record at Minnesota. West divison (not conference, just division) finishes were 6th, tied 5th, 4th, tied 2nd, tied 4th. Never beat Wisconsin, losing record against Iowa.

Some people still bring up Glen Mason for some reason. Depressingly, Glen Mason had the exact same conference winning percentage as Jerry Kill (40). He had a decade to show that he could at least occasionally contend for a conference title. During his tenure only the Gophers and Indiana failed to finish 3rd or better in the conference standings at least once. Losing records against Iowa and Wisconsin and the gap was widening as his tenure lengthened.

I can hear people now saying "forty percent sure sounds a lot better than the fifteen percent Mr Row The Boat is at". It certainly is, and if all you aspire to is winning forty percent of the games then I guess this post isn't for you. But also keep in mind that Mason's first two seasons were 1-7 and 2-6 in conference play and as previously mentioned Kill went 2-6 and 2-6. So even if forty percent is acceptable to you, recent Gopher history suggest Fleck isn't far off from the trajectory of those who "achieved" that.

Nebraska was a complete disaster and I've seen more than enough of Robb Smith's defense, but Fleck is less than two years removed from being considered one of the top up and coming coaches in the nation. Given Gopher history does it make sense to mock him when he's lost arguably his best player on both sides of the ball to injury? Is it really any surprise that Gopher football is bad in a year where they are starting a true Freshman QB and between 4-6 other Freshman on offense? I can't remember another year where the Gophers, or any team, has lost their two best players (I am sure it's happened somewhere), but I can remember a lot of years where the Gophers were just as bad as they have been this year.

I don't know if Fleck is the guy, I hope he is but after years and years of disappointment as a Gopher fan (I really feel for those of you 40 plus fans that have experienced even more and especially those of you who travel to watch this team year after year) it's tough to believe. But that's not Fleck's fault, it's the fault of those that came before him. He deserves more than 1.5 years to turn around 50 years of failure. Nebraska sucked today and relevance feels a long way away right now, but does it feel further away than when we were losing 45-17 to Purdue in 2011? It probably doesn't, we've just all tried to erase that memory.

Really good, thoughtful post. My only criticism would be that PJ has a lot more advantages when it comes to facilities than Mason did. Meaning I would set the bar slightly higher.

I’ll wait until after year 4 to assess Fleck.
 

Great post EG#9 and some really depressing stats!

Go Gophers!!
 

I would guess those that have already decided Fleck can’t get it done here had decided after Brewster’s 7-1 start in his 2nd season he should be given a lifetime contract.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

After a thoroughly disappointing day capped by Purdue rendering last weeks "feel good" moment meaningless by taking Ohio State out in a huge upset, I was curious to see when Gopher fans last had an opportunity to storm the field. Literally every program seems to at least luck in to a huge upset every once in awhile...right? Well, I went back through the records as I knew the Gophers had no such opportunity in their decade at TCF and would you believe there was never an opportunity at the Metrodome either? The Gophers are on their second STADIUM of time without a home win over a big time opponent. How about this? Since the year 2000, the Gophers have just TWO wins against teams ranked in the TOP 20: once at Ohio State in 2000 and again in 2005 over a Purdue team that turned out to be terrible (5-6 overall). Do you realize the Gophers have not won in Iowa City (not Columbus....Iowa City!) since 1999? I am sure everyone is aware by now that the Gophers have not finished in the top 3 of the conference nor defeated a team that would go on to finish in the top 3 of conference in more than 20 years.

Some posters wish Jerry Kill was the coach. Jerry Kill started out 2-6 and 2-6 in conference play in his first two years. Of those 12 conference losses, 10 were by more than 2 touchdowns. He also lost to New Mexico State, North Dakota State, and needed triple overtime to defeat a UNLV team that would finish the year 2-11 in those first two years. The high point of his tenure was a fantastic win at Nebraska and that came in his 4th season. He's credited with a 14-21 conference record at Minnesota. West divison (not conference, just division) finishes were 6th, tied 5th, 4th, tied 2nd, tied 4th. Never beat Wisconsin, losing record against Iowa.

Some people still bring up Glen Mason for some reason. Depressingly, Glen Mason had the exact same conference winning percentage as Jerry Kill (40). He had a decade to show that he could at least occasionally contend for a conference title. During his tenure only the Gophers and Indiana failed to finish 3rd or better in the conference standings at least once. Losing records against Iowa and Wisconsin and the gap was widening as his tenure lengthened.

I can hear people now saying "forty percent sure sounds a lot better than the fifteen percent Mr Row The Boat is at". It certainly is, and if all you aspire to is winning forty percent of the games then I guess this post isn't for you. But also keep in mind that Mason's first two seasons were 1-7 and 2-6 in conference play and as previously mentioned Kill went 2-6 and 2-6. So even if forty percent is acceptable to you, recent Gopher history suggest Fleck isn't far off from the trajectory of those who "achieved" that.

Nebraska was a complete disaster and I've seen more than enough of Robb Smith's defense, but Fleck is less than two years removed from being considered one of the top up and coming coaches in the nation. Given Gopher history does it make sense to mock him when he's lost arguably his best player on both sides of the ball to injury? Is it really any surprise that Gopher football is bad in a year where they are starting a true Freshman QB and between 4-6 other Freshman on offense? I can't remember another year where the Gophers, or any team, has lost their two best players (I am sure it's happened somewhere), but I can remember a lot of years where the Gophers were just as bad as they have been this year.

I don't know if Fleck is the guy, I hope he is but after years and years of disappointment as a Gopher fan (I really feel for those of you 40 plus fans that have experienced even more and especially those of you who travel to watch this team year after year) it's tough to believe. But that's not Fleck's fault, it's the fault of those that came before him. He deserves more than 1.5 years to turn around 50 years of failure. Nebraska sucked today and relevance feels a long way away right now, but does it feel further away than when we were losing 45-17 to Purdue in 2011? It probably doesn't, we've just all tried to erase that memory.


+1
 



After a thoroughly disappointing day capped by Purdue rendering last weeks "feel good" moment meaningless by taking Ohio State out in a huge upset, I was curious to see when Gopher fans last had an opportunity to storm the field. Literally every program seems to at least luck in to a huge upset every once in awhile...right? Well, I went back through the records as I knew the Gophers had no such opportunity in their decade at TCF and would you believe there was never an opportunity at the Metrodome either? The Gophers are on their second STADIUM of time without a home win over a big time opponent. How about this? Since the year 2000, the Gophers have just TWO wins against teams ranked in the TOP 20: once at Ohio State in 2000 and again in 2005 over a Purdue team that turned out to be terrible (5-6 overall). Do you realize the Gophers have not won in Iowa City (not Columbus....Iowa City!) since 1999? I am sure everyone is aware by now that the Gophers have not finished in the top 3 of the conference nor defeated a team that would go on to finish in the top 3 of conference in more than 20 years.

Some posters wish Jerry Kill was the coach. Jerry Kill started out 2-6 and 2-6 in conference play in his first two years. Of those 12 conference losses, 10 were by more than 2 touchdowns. He also lost to New Mexico State, North Dakota State, and needed triple overtime to defeat a UNLV team that would finish the year 2-11 in those first two years. The high point of his tenure was a fantastic win at Nebraska and that came in his 4th season. He's credited with a 14-21 conference record at Minnesota. West divison (not conference, just division) finishes were 6th, tied 5th, 4th, tied 2nd, tied 4th. Never beat Wisconsin, losing record against Iowa.

Some people still bring up Glen Mason for some reason. Depressingly, Glen Mason had the exact same conference winning percentage as Jerry Kill (40). He had a decade to show that he could at least occasionally contend for a conference title. During his tenure only the Gophers and Indiana failed to finish 3rd or better in the conference standings at least once. Losing records against Iowa and Wisconsin and the gap was widening as his tenure lengthened.

I can hear people now saying "forty percent sure sounds a lot better than the fifteen percent Mr Row The Boat is at". It certainly is, and if all you aspire to is winning forty percent of the games then I guess this post isn't for you. But also keep in mind that Mason's first two seasons were 1-7 and 2-6 in conference play and as previously mentioned Kill went 2-6 and 2-6. So even if forty percent is acceptable to you, recent Gopher history suggest Fleck isn't far off from the trajectory of those who "achieved" that.

Nebraska was a complete disaster and I've seen more than enough of Robb Smith's defense, but Fleck is less than two years removed from being considered one of the top up and coming coaches in the nation. Given Gopher history does it make sense to mock him when he's lost arguably his best player on both sides of the ball to injury? Is it really any surprise that Gopher football is bad in a year where they are starting a true Freshman QB and between 4-6 other Freshman on offense? I can't remember another year where the Gophers, or any team, has lost their two best players (I am sure it's happened somewhere), but I can remember a lot of years where the Gophers were just as bad as they have been this year.

I don't know if Fleck is the guy, I hope he is but after years and years of disappointment as a Gopher fan (I really feel for those of you 40 plus fans that have experienced even more and especially those of you who travel to watch this team year after year) it's tough to believe. But that's not Fleck's fault, it's the fault of those that came before him. He deserves more than 1.5 years to turn around 50 years of failure. Nebraska sucked today and relevance feels a long way away right now, but does it feel further away than when we were losing 45-17 to Purdue in 2011? It probably doesn't, we've just all tried to erase that memory.


Of course he does....literally one or two posters are calling for his head. He will absolutely get four years minimum. Its not over the top for fans to look for a team that shows up and wants to play. The fans last week were, for the most part, accepting of the loss because they thought the team played well in defeat. Also, he puts himself in some of these predicaments. Decided to do a total rebuild. Swung and missed on VV, correct? Croft would have been a Jr this year. Your push is to tell people not to over react, but state Nebraska was a complete disaster and you've seen enough of Robb Smith's defense, well that's pretty much what people are bitchin' about. Also, whether you think it's fair or not, it ultimately lies on Fleck's shoulders. Just as it did for Warmath, Stoll, Salem, etc. It's the nature of the beast.
 


We're 3-4.
We're 0-4 Big Ten.

The loss at Maryland is disappointing.
Prior to season most would have had Nebraska beating us at Nebraska
Us beating Iowa or OSU would have been an unexpected result.

We've have 4 Big Ten home games and 5 road games.
We are 0-3 in road games
We are 0-1 in our home games.
 



After a thoroughly disappointing day capped by Purdue rendering last weeks "feel good" moment meaningless by taking Ohio State out in a huge upset, I was curious to see when Gopher fans last had an opportunity to storm the field. Literally every program seems to at least luck in to a huge upset every once in awhile...right? Well, I went back through the records as I knew the Gophers had no such opportunity in their decade at TCF and would you believe there was never an opportunity at the Metrodome either? The Gophers are on their second STADIUM of time without a home win over a big time opponent. How about this? Since the year 2000, the Gophers have just TWO wins against teams ranked in the TOP 20: once at Ohio State in 2000 and again in 2005 over a Purdue team that turned out to be terrible (5-6 overall). Do you realize the Gophers have not won in Iowa City (not Columbus....Iowa City!) since 1999? I am sure everyone is aware by now that the Gophers have not finished in the top 3 of the conference nor defeated a team that would go on to finish in the top 3 of conference in more than 20 years.

Some posters wish Jerry Kill was the coach. Jerry Kill started out 2-6 and 2-6 in conference play in his first two years. Of those 12 conference losses, 10 were by more than 2 touchdowns. He also lost to New Mexico State, North Dakota State, and needed triple overtime to defeat a UNLV team that would finish the year 2-11 in those first two years. The high point of his tenure was a fantastic win at Nebraska and that came in his 4th season. He's credited with a 14-21 conference record at Minnesota. West divison (not conference, just division) finishes were 6th, tied 5th, 4th, tied 2nd, tied 4th. Never beat Wisconsin, losing record against Iowa.

Some people still bring up Glen Mason for some reason. Depressingly, Glen Mason had the exact same conference winning percentage as Jerry Kill (40). He had a decade to show that he could at least occasionally contend for a conference title. During his tenure only the Gophers and Indiana failed to finish 3rd or better in the conference standings at least once. Losing records against Iowa and Wisconsin and the gap was widening as his tenure lengthened.

I can hear people now saying "forty percent sure sounds a lot better than the fifteen percent Mr Row The Boat is at". It certainly is, and if all you aspire to is winning forty percent of the games then I guess this post isn't for you. But also keep in mind that Mason's first two seasons were 1-7 and 2-6 in conference play and as previously mentioned Kill went 2-6 and 2-6. So even if forty percent is acceptable to you, recent Gopher history suggest Fleck isn't far off from the trajectory of those who "achieved" that.

Nebraska was a complete disaster and I've seen more than enough of Robb Smith's defense, but Fleck is less than two years removed from being considered one of the top up and coming coaches in the nation. Given Gopher history does it make sense to mock him when he's lost arguably his best player on both sides of the ball to injury? Is it really any surprise that Gopher football is bad in a year where they are starting a true Freshman QB and between 4-6 other Freshman on offense? I can't remember another year where the Gophers, or any team, has lost their two best players (I am sure it's happened somewhere), but I can remember a lot of years where the Gophers were just as bad as they have been this year.

I don't know if Fleck is the guy, I hope he is but after years and years of disappointment as a Gopher fan (I really feel for those of you 40 plus fans that have experienced even more and especially those of you who travel to watch this team year after year) it's tough to believe. But that's not Fleck's fault, it's the fault of those that came before him. He deserves more than 1.5 years to turn around 50 years of failure. Nebraska sucked today and relevance feels a long way away right now, but does it feel further away than when we were losing 45-17 to Purdue in 2011? It probably doesn't, we've just all tried to erase that memory.

+1
 

We're 3-4.
We're 0-4 Big Ten.

The loss at Maryland is disappointing.
Prior to season most would have had Nebraska beating us at Nebraska
Us beating Iowa or OSU would have been an unexpected result.

We've have 4 Big Ten home games and 5 road games.
We are 0-3 in road games
We are 0-1 in our home games.

I would even add that beating Maryland away shouldn't have been necessarily expected. I think people were more optimistic than they may have been going into that game because of Maryland's coaching issues.

So, yes, we are 0-4 in Big Ten play but that result wasn't completely unexpected if one looked at the schedule before the season. The problem is that one could have looked at the remaining five games and saw a chance for at least 3 wins. I think 6-6 was a reasonable expectation given that the team was 5-7 last year and almost surely would have had a better passing game this year than last year.

What none of us expected was to have a defense this bad. Nothing in the past six years or so prepared us mentally for that. Now when we look at the remaining 5 games, we wonder if we can hold any of those teams to less than 30 points.

It's not like this team hasn't had improvement but it's been all on the offensive end. If Morgan is the QB for the rest of the year and plays like he did yesterday, we should be in reasonably good shape offensively for the rest of the season. The receiving core is the best we've had in years. The offensive line has improved. The running backs are young but, all things considered, are getting the job done and are producing enough to compliment the improved passing attack. Even with an improved offense, though, can we actually outscore anyone other than Illinois?

At least we know where the improvement must be concentrated.
 

I would guess those that have already decided Fleck can’t get it done here had decided after Brewster’s 7-1 start in his 2nd season he should be given a lifetime contract.

I don't think anyone's saying Fleck can't get it done. I think people are concerned though and in agreement that changes need to be made (staff, scheme, etc.). I think people are just stating where the program is right now and it's not where anyone expected it to be.
I think any new coach should get at least 4 years, including Fleck.
 

Defense is worse than expected.

Offense is slightly better than expected but can't finish yet, but positive signs are there that we'll close that gap offensively.
 



Fleck will be earning his 3.5 million plus periodic automatic raises plus pension/annuity contributions by the U and y'all true believers and rowers for far longer than many on this board want him to be head football coach regardless of his Big Ten won/loss record, bowl appearances and border battle trophies held. Outgoing prexy k will do nothing and has already extended Coyle. The new Prexy will wait and watch and be too preoccupied and content with living in his/her honeymoon phase with the board of regents to start messing with the revenue sports and the athletic director situation for as long as the honeymoon lasts.

So, those on this board who are true "fleckites" will not have to worry about thair main-culture-club-oarsman for a LONG time. Take that to the bank. As long as Big Ten TV sports revenue sharing pays as much as it does...nothing in the revenue sports of football and men's hoops head coach situations at the U of M will matter too much to the powers that call all the shots over there in the administration corner of the University of Minnesota muckety-muck ivory tower la-la-land power structure and old-boy care-taking palace. So rest easy Coach Fleck and Coach Pitino. Big Ten wins don't really matter to the administrators in the key revenue sports.

Relax Coach Fleck. There is nothing for you to worry about. What posters like me say about Big Ten wins mattering in the grand scheme of things at the U of M in the revenue sports really has nothing to do with anything about coaching hires...fires...contract buy outs or anything else. What happens at the U stays at the U when it comes to the athletic department.


Rock-on! Beat the stinking badger, GOPHER and extend Coach Fleck and raise his pay and talk about how happy you administrators are with the job he and Dick Pitino are doing and have done at your U, prexy k. On your way out the door is a great time to reward your few anointed lieutenants.
 
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I don't think anyone's saying Fleck can't get it done. I think people are concerned though and in agreement that changes need to be made (staff, scheme, etc.). I think people are just stating where the program is right now and it's not where anyone expected it to be.
I think any new coach should get at least 4 years, including Fleck.

There are plenty of posters insinuating Fleck is in over his head and can’t get it done. One post indicated it will take 10 years to fix the mess he has made.

I am willing to let it play out longer than 19 games. For some if that makes me a Fleckite, Fleckster or as I was called a Fleck worshiper so be it.
 

I think I saw a stat where Minnesota in its 2 previous games prior to Nebraska had 8 series inside opponent territory and didn’t score. The offense looks better and has flashes, but it’s been absolutely terrible at finishing in the last 3 games. Way, way too many turnovers. The ball is the program, not. I get the youth on offense, but just wanted to point this out. The offense turned it over twice inside the 10 yard line yesterday. Once on downs and once on a pick. 14 points against Ohio St? The offense has been brutal in the Big Ten as well when you really look at it. This team needs to play a complete team game. Offense, defense, and special teams together.



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Nobody AFAIK is calling for PJs head. There are signs the offense will become good at some point. However, the defense obviously has been up and down under Smith and is trending lower. Yesterday was a record setting day for Nebraska (and likely for MN). This feels like the opposite scenario to the Kill years. The defense became steadily better and signs were evident in year two, while the offense was frustratingly inconsistent.

To save his job PJ (in 2020) needs to have coaches that can recruit the right players, keep the right players, prepare the players, and adjust. If he truly feels Smith is the right guy then their ox are yoked together for better or worse. Time will tell.
 

I think it all goes back to when Fleck was hired.

Fleck - hot coach coming off 13-1 season and big bowl game. Taking over a team that won 9 games and won a bowl game, but had some off-field issues, questions about discipline, and concerns about ticket sales and recruiting.

I thought - and I think other people thought - that Fleck would take the plusses from Kill and Claeys and build on that - a remodel - not a rebuild. The AD said he was going to bring energy and excitement to the program, and sell tickets.

But, it now appears that Fleck came in planning a total rebuild. Fine - he's the coach, and he gets to set the course for the program. I just wish it would have been made clear at the time what Fleck was planning. I wish he would have come in for his 1st press conference and laid it out - made it black and white that it was going to be a total rebuild, and nobody should expect immediate success. should have said it will get worse before it gets better.

He might not have "won the press conference," but everyone would have known the score.

I maintain that Fleck underestimated the difference between the MAC and the B1G. This is a bigger challenge than he expected. Let's see how he handles it.
 

The offense looks better and has flashes, but it’s been absolutely terrible at finishing in the last 3 games. Way, way too many turnovers.


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I think part of that is due to them taking more risks because of being so far behind. I think we probably could have maneuvered for a couple of field goals yesterday and scored 34 points anyway. With the defenses we had in the past, that might have been enough against a team like Nebraska. The Iowa game was a similar, although not quite as bad, situation.
 

After a thoroughly disappointing day capped by Purdue rendering last weeks "feel good" moment meaningless by taking Ohio State out in a huge upset, I was curious to see when Gopher fans last had an opportunity to storm the field. Literally every program seems to at least luck in to a huge upset every once in awhile...right? Well, I went back through the records as I knew the Gophers had no such opportunity in their decade at TCF and would you believe there was never an opportunity at the Metrodome either? The Gophers are on their second STADIUM of time without a home win over a big time opponent. How about this? Since the year 2000, the Gophers have just TWO wins against teams ranked in the TOP 20: once at Ohio State in 2000 and again in 2005 over a Purdue team that turned out to be terrible (5-6 overall). Do you realize the Gophers have not won in Iowa City (not Columbus....Iowa City!) since 1999? I am sure everyone is aware by now that the Gophers have not finished in the top 3 of the conference nor defeated a team that would go on to finish in the top 3 of conference in more than 20 years.

Some posters wish Jerry Kill was the coach. Jerry Kill started out 2-6 and 2-6 in conference play in his first two years. Of those 12 conference losses, 10 were by more than 2 touchdowns. He also lost to New Mexico State, North Dakota State, and needed triple overtime to defeat a UNLV team that would finish the year 2-11 in those first two years. The high point of his tenure was a fantastic win at Nebraska and that came in his 4th season. He's credited with a 14-21 conference record at Minnesota. West divison (not conference, just division) finishes were 6th, tied 5th, 4th, tied 2nd, tied 4th. Never beat Wisconsin, losing record against Iowa.

Some people still bring up Glen Mason for some reason. Depressingly, Glen Mason had the exact same conference winning percentage as Jerry Kill (40). He had a decade to show that he could at least occasionally contend for a conference title. During his tenure only the Gophers and Indiana failed to finish 3rd or better in the conference standings at least once. Losing records against Iowa and Wisconsin and the gap was widening as his tenure lengthened.

I can hear people now saying "forty percent sure sounds a lot better than the fifteen percent Mr Row The Boat is at". It certainly is, and if all you aspire to is winning forty percent of the games then I guess this post isn't for you. But also keep in mind that Mason's first two seasons were 1-7 and 2-6 in conference play and as previously mentioned Kill went 2-6 and 2-6. So even if forty percent is acceptable to you, recent Gopher history suggest Fleck isn't far off from the trajectory of those who "achieved" that.

Nebraska was a complete disaster and I've seen more than enough of Robb Smith's defense, but Fleck is less than two years removed from being considered one of the top up and coming coaches in the nation. Given Gopher history does it make sense to mock him when he's lost arguably his best player on both sides of the ball to injury? Is it really any surprise that Gopher football is bad in a year where they are starting a true Freshman QB and between 4-6 other Freshman on offense? I can't remember another year where the Gophers, or any team, has lost their two best players (I am sure it's happened somewhere), but I can remember a lot of years where the Gophers were just as bad as they have been this year.

I don't know if Fleck is the guy, I hope he is but after years and years of disappointment as a Gopher fan (I really feel for those of you 40 plus fans that have experienced even more and especially those of you who travel to watch this team year after year) it's tough to believe. But that's not Fleck's fault, it's the fault of those that came before him. He deserves more than 1.5 years to turn around 50 years of failure. Nebraska sucked today and relevance feels a long way away right now, but does it feel further away than when we were losing 45-17 to Purdue in 2011? It probably doesn't, we've just all tried to erase that memory.

Good post. Thanks for posting.
 

After a thoroughly disappointing day capped by Purdue rendering last weeks "feel good" moment meaningless by taking Ohio State out in a huge upset, I was curious to see when Gopher fans last had an opportunity to storm the field. Literally every program seems to at least luck in to a huge upset every once in awhile...right? Well, I went back through the records as I knew the Gophers had no such opportunity in their decade at TCF and would you believe there was never an opportunity at the Metrodome either? The Gophers are on their second STADIUM of time without a home win over a big time opponent. How about this? Since the year 2000, the Gophers have just TWO wins against teams ranked in the TOP 20: once at Ohio State in 2000 and again in 2005 over a Purdue team that turned out to be terrible (5-6 overall). Do you realize the Gophers have not won in Iowa City (not Columbus....Iowa City!) since 1999? I am sure everyone is aware by now that the Gophers have not finished in the top 3 of the conference nor defeated a team that would go on to finish in the top 3 of conference in more than 20 years.

Some posters wish Jerry Kill was the coach. Jerry Kill started out 2-6 and 2-6 in conference play in his first two years. Of those 12 conference losses, 10 were by more than 2 touchdowns. He also lost to New Mexico State, North Dakota State, and needed triple overtime to defeat a UNLV team that would finish the year 2-11 in those first two years. The high point of his tenure was a fantastic win at Nebraska and that came in his 4th season. He's credited with a 14-21 conference record at Minnesota. West divison (not conference, just division) finishes were 6th, tied 5th, 4th, tied 2nd, tied 4th. Never beat Wisconsin, losing record against Iowa.

Some people still bring up Glen Mason for some reason. Depressingly, Glen Mason had the exact same conference winning percentage as Jerry Kill (40). He had a decade to show that he could at least occasionally contend for a conference title. During his tenure only the Gophers and Indiana failed to finish 3rd or better in the conference standings at least once. Losing records against Iowa and Wisconsin and the gap was widening as his tenure lengthened.

I can hear people now saying "forty percent sure sounds a lot better than the fifteen percent Mr Row The Boat is at". It certainly is, and if all you aspire to is winning forty percent of the games then I guess this post isn't for you. But also keep in mind that Mason's first two seasons were 1-7 and 2-6 in conference play and as previously mentioned Kill went 2-6 and 2-6. So even if forty percent is acceptable to you, recent Gopher history suggest Fleck isn't far off from the trajectory of those who "achieved" that.

Nebraska was a complete disaster and I've seen more than enough of Robb Smith's defense, but Fleck is less than two years removed from being considered one of the top up and coming coaches in the nation. Given Gopher history does it make sense to mock him when he's lost arguably his best player on both sides of the ball to injury? Is it really any surprise that Gopher football is bad in a year where they are starting a true Freshman QB and between 4-6 other Freshman on offense? I can't remember another year where the Gophers, or any team, has lost their two best players (I am sure it's happened somewhere), but I can remember a lot of years where the Gophers were just as bad as they have been this year.

I don't know if Fleck is the guy, I hope he is but after years and years of disappointment as a Gopher fan (I really feel for those of you 40 plus fans that have experienced even more and especially those of you who travel to watch this team year after year) it's tough to believe. But that's not Fleck's fault, it's the fault of those that came before him. He deserves more than 1.5 years to turn around 50 years of failure. Nebraska sucked today and relevance feels a long way away right now, but does it feel further away than when we were losing 45-17 to Purdue in 2011? It probably doesn't, we've just all tried to erase that memory.

Mason beat every big ten team. I want another coach that can do that. Until then, no one else stacks up.
 

EG#9 thank you for taking the time to write this.
Yesterday was a big disappointment and I’m really glad we didn’t make the trip.
The recruiting is trending up and it is going to take time to solidify the roster after the scandal, coaching change, and the restock a pretty dismal roster in key position groups.
Yesterday for me really came down to two teams with some playmakers and poor defenses. I think the Nebraska offense would probably put up more points against their own defense because their defense may be even worse than the Gophers.
Martinez is a difference maker and I hope Fleck can land a recruit like him in the near future.
Still going to support this team and find ways to enjoy the rest of the season. Beat the Hoosiers!
 

Mason beat every big ten team. I want another coach that can do that. Until then, no one else stacks up.

Thanks for this more balanced post. PJF does have a lot to prove and I will continue to support and give him more time to see if he can be successful.
 

It will take development over time, not just recruiting. We will see...

Of course he deserves more time. It will be interesting to see where it goes as they are not as young as PJ likes to espouse when you look at other rosters overall. They are younger in who they play on offense, but not defense. I just did a quick look at our two neighboring rosters and Purdue, looking at Freshman and Sophomore classes, as well as defensive starters.

Minnesota: 57 freshman, 21 sophomores. Defensive starters: 3 fresh, 1 soph, 7 upperclassman (4 jr, 3 sr)
Iowa: 55 freshman, 25 sophomores. Defensive starters: 3 fresh, 1 soph, 7 upperclassman (3 jr, 4 sr)
Purdue: 56 freshman, 17 sophomores. Defensive starters: 1 fresh, 3 soph, 7 upperclassman (4 jr, 3 sr)
WI: 53 freshman, 26 sophomores. Defensive starters: 4 fresh, 1 soph, 6 upperclassman (1 jr, 5 sr)

When I look at this it's not just about getting "older", overall or on defense, as we are not really any younger than other teams overall (although we do have more freshman starting on offense than most) and definitely not defensively. Other teams have similar numbers of freshman and sophomores and they are working to develop their players as well. So, it is not just a matter of time and being patient for our current players to get older because it is not like we will have more experienced and talented players in 2-3 years than our opponents because they are developing players and we are not going to significantly out-recruit Iowa and Wisconsin, or even Purdue. Some years we will, other years we won't.

So, it will take a solid program of developing players. Mason did that on offense. Kill and company did that on defense. That's what we need a coach to do, and no one has done it consistently yet. Will PJ be able to put it all together on both sides of the ball? There are signs of progress on offense, but going wrong direction on defense.
 

At this point in the season (and Year 1) I am not sure what to think about our QB situation. While I feel like Annexstad, and now Morgan, provide us with more upside than we have seen among our QBs in some time, this TEAM continues to disappoint and both seem to 'fizzle' when we need them most. Getting beat, badly, by Maryland and now Nebraska (neither of which is a 'great' team) is a kick in the gut! If we continue to get beat badly by middle-of-the-road Big 10 Teams, we are doomed. I think one of two things is true: Either we a) don't have near the 'talent' of the middle-of-the-road Big 10 Teams....or b) we are getting badly outcoached by the middle-of-the-road Big 10 Teams. Either way, that scares me into thinking about Year 2, 3, 4, etc...are we going to be this bad for P.J.'s entire tenure? I like P.J., I want to believe, and I will continue to root for my beloved rodents win, lose, or tie! I am not going anywhere! But, the last four games have been tough--we show glimpses of being a decent football team but ultimately lose (and sometimes lose big, to 'average' teams). As for Tanner and Annexstad, I think either might be 'the answer' or neither might be 'viable'...and I'd say it's 50-50. With the rest of the team underperforming (every unit that I can think of, except WRs), will it even matter that we have a legitimate QB?
 

I would guess those that have already decided Fleck can’t get it done here had decided after Brewster’s 7-1 start in his 2nd season he should be given a lifetime contract.


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So true!
 

Don't overlook the comment below...

In 1.5 years PJ has maintained the ceiling that Kill/Claeys left him.

For all the vile being thrown around around the failure that is PJ. I have yet to see anyone reference the complete collapse of 2015 that Kill/Claeys oversaw.

2014 and 2016 were our best years in that regime, but even those years we sat around 49th and 50th among FBS teams. 2011, 2013, and 2015 were either horrendous or bad. I have nothing but thanks and respect for both men, they took us to from a bottom feeder in all of football and left us as a great Group of 5 team. But, that's just it - it was a power group of 5 team.

PJ hasn't shown us any improvement other than he can play the non-conference schedule at an Elite level and out recruit when compared to 2011-2016. But he hasn't shown any ability to find a way to win the toss-up games, and yesterday was a toss-up game, in a way Kill and Claeys could. They had the ability to contain Big Ten teams and squeeze out wins. I do miss that because we would have won yesterday had we held Neb to less than 400 yards.

In 1.5 years PJ has maintained the ceiling that Kill/Claeys left him, Is it trending in any ugly direction... oh yeah, but even throwing out 2011 the 2012, 2013, and 2015 were comparatively worse than last season, and up to this point, this season.



I think it all goes back to when Fleck was hired.

Fleck - hot coach coming off 13-1 season and big bowl game. Taking over a team that won 9 games and won a bowl game, but had some off-field issues, questions about discipline, and concerns about ticket sales and recruiting.

I thought - and I think other people thought - that Fleck would take the plusses from Kill and Claeys and build on that - a remodel - not a rebuild. The AD said he was going to bring energy and excitement to the program, and sell tickets.

But, it now appears that Fleck came in planning a total rebuild. Fine - he's the coach, and he gets to set the course for the program. I just wish it would have been made clear at the time what Fleck was planning. I wish he would have come in for his 1st press conference and laid it out - made it black and white that it was going to be a total rebuild, and nobody should expect immediate success. should have said it will get worse before it gets better.

He might not have "won the press conference," but everyone would have known the score.

I maintain that Fleck underestimated the difference between the MAC and the B1G. This is a bigger challenge than he expected. Let's see how he handles it.
 

Mason beat every big ten team. I want another coach that can do that. Until then, no one else stacks up.

This is a meaningless stat when no other Gophers coach in the last several decades has had anywhere near as long of a tenure as Mason. He beat every Big Ten team because he had several opportunities to play every team.
 

Don't overlook the comment below...

In 1.5 years PJ has maintained the ceiling that Kill/Claeys left him.

For all the vile being thrown around around the failure that is PJ. I have yet to see anyone reference the complete collapse of 2015 that Kill/Claeys oversaw.


In 1.5 years PJ has maintained the ceiling that Kill/Claeys left him, Is it trending in any ugly direction... oh yeah, but even throwing out 2011 the 2012, 2013, and 2015 were comparatively worse than last season, and up to this point, this season.

I think you should do a little research before doing your rants. 2015 was the worst year (record wise) after the first year of Kill/Claeys regime as the team only went 5-7. However, the Gophers had to play #4 Ohio State, #7 TCU, #9 Iowa, #12 Michigan, #21 Wisconsin, and #23 Northwestern that year. So we lost to 6 ranked teams and Nebraska that year. Since your punctuation and clarity aren't very good, I'm not sure of the real meaning of that last clause but the team won 6 games in 2012 (granted 4 of those were nonconference) and lost the bowl game by a field goal and the 2013 team went 8-4 and had a lead before losing a close one in the final minutes of the bowl game.
 

Not really rant just a meta analysis of the data on Massey rankings.

Thank you for proving my point.
I think you should do a little research before doing your rants. 2015 was the worst year (record wise) after the first year of Kill/Claeys regime as the team only went 5-7. However, the Gophers had to play #4 Ohio State, #7 TCU, #9 Iowa, #12 Michigan, #21 Wisconsin, and #23 Northwestern that year. So we lost to 6 ranked teams and Nebraska that year. Since your punctuation and clarity aren't very good, I'm not sure of the real meaning of that last clause but the team won 6 games in 2012 (granted 4 of those were nonconference) and lost the bowl game by a field goal and the 2013 team went 8-4 and had a lead before losing a close one in the final minutes of the bowl game.

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