Big Ten office admits measurement needed before Ohio State awarded key first down

BleedGopher

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per Randy:

“We should have measured.’’

That’s the comment P.J. Fleck received from the Big Ten office after the Gophers coach contacted the league about a questionable fourth-down spot during Minnesota’s 30-14 loss at No. 3 Ohio State on Saturday.

With the Gophers leading 7-3 in the first quarter, Ohio State faced fourth-and-2 from the Minnesota 44. Running back Mike Weber was given credit for a 3-yard gain, though the ball was spotted ahead of where Weber was down. On the next play, Ohio State quarterback Dwayne Haskins threw a 41-yard touchdown pass to Terry McLaurin for a 10-7 OSU lead.

“I’m checking with the official, and he’s like, ‘No way, no way.’ Almost like, ‘Leave me alone,’ ’’ Fleck said Tuesday during his KFXN-FM Radio show. “… We turned it into the officials, and they said, ‘Yes, we should have measured.’

“They came back and basically said, ‘We’re sorry.’ ’’

http://www.startribune.com/big-ten-...-ohio-state-awarded-key-first-down/497750051/

Go Gophers!!
 

Same story, different year. Historically Ohio St and Michigan get the calls and the rest of us get an apology several days later....
 

Same story, different year. Historically Ohio St and Michigan get the calls and the rest of us get an apology several days later....

Yes, the Big Ten desperately wants (needs) Ohio State to go through undefeated so that the league can get a team into the playoff, or possibly two teams if Michigan wins every game including the Big Ten championship and Ohio St only loss is to Michigan.
 

Where is the accountability? The official should be placed on leave for the remainder of the season. There was no reason not to measure.
 

Where is the accountability? The official should be placed on leave for the remainder of the season. There was no reason not to measure.

What if the "next ref up" is worse?

Everyone wants to come down on the refs hard.... not sure we want an NFL type ref strike situation if we knock down too many refs.
 


"If you need an official to make a call, you didn't deserve to win"-PJ Fleck

But this was bad. Agreed the official needs to be disciplined
 

That it didn't even get a review was absurd.....

Although, perhaps if they did perform a review, they maybe would have came back saying there was a targeting penalty assessed to Leidner, so perhaps it was best that a review wasn't performed.....
 

That it didn't even get a review was absurd.....

Although, perhaps if they did perform a review, the they maybe would have came back saying there was a targeting penalty assessed to Leidner, so perhaps it was best that a review wasn't performed.....

The review is what got me. It was clear the player was down a good yard before the spot.

It could have been a first down as the TV line was WAY off.... but at least look at it.
 

What if the "next ref up" is worse?

Everyone wants to come down on the refs hard.... not sure we want an NFL type ref strike situation if we knock down too many refs.

The next ref up understands his neck is on the line. Have to have consequences for poor performance or performance will not improve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 



Where is the accountability? The official should be placed on leave for the remainder of the season. There was no reason not to measure.

The measurement isn't the problem, the spot is the problem.
 

What if the "next ref up" is worse?

Everyone wants to come down on the refs hard.... not sure we want an NFL type ref strike situation if we knock down too many refs.

Every ref at every level is capable of spotting that ball accurately. That ref chose to spot it where he did. I'll let everyone else draw their own conclusions.
 

The next ref up understands his neck is on the line. Have to have consequences for poor performance or performance will not improve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That doesn't make them good. Didn't work for the NFL...

These guy's aren't simply not trying hard enough...
 

Where is the accountability? The official should be placed on leave for the remainder of the season. There was no reason not to measure.

Don't disagree with suspension but measuring wasn't the problem, the spot was the problem. Where he spotted it was definitely a first down and about a half a yard ahead of where the player went down. The reason he should be suspended is that there is no way with the vision he had of that play he could have come up with that spot unless he is either really bad at his job or intentionally giving the home team a break. Either reason should lead to a suspension. Ref was standing on the line to gain sees the player go down to his left and takes one step to his right to mark the ball down. It doesn't mean we should have won the game, but you shouldn't be allowed to be that obviously bad (or biased)
 



Great another apology for the apology file cabinet deep in the basement of the football building.
 


The measurement isn't the problem, the spot is the problem.

This is a great point. And is a spot even reviewable?? I don't recall. If it is, or if the argument is that they should be ... that might be tough because now would every spot be reviewed? It'd take 8hrs to finish a game ... Maybe on challenge only.
 

This is a great point. And is a spot even reviewable?? I don't recall. If it is, or if the argument is that they should be ... that might be tough because now would every spot be reviewed? It'd take 8hrs to finish a game ... Maybe on challenge only.

You can review a spot. They acted as if there was no was and Fleck didn't. I think he could have challenged it but didn't based on the refs reaction.
 

per Randy:

“We should have measured.’’

That’s the comment P.J. Fleck received from the Big Ten office after the Gophers coach contacted the league about a questionable fourth-down spot during Minnesota’s 30-14 loss at No. 3 Ohio State on Saturday.

With the Gophers leading 7-3 in the first quarter, Ohio State faced fourth-and-2 from the Minnesota 44. Running back Mike Weber was given credit for a 3-yard gain, though the ball was spotted ahead of where Weber was down. On the next play, Ohio State quarterback Dwayne Haskins threw a 41-yard touchdown pass to Terry McLaurin for a 10-7 OSU lead.

“I’m checking with the official, and he’s like, ‘No way, no way.’ Almost like, ‘Leave me alone,’ ’’ Fleck said Tuesday during his KFXN-FM Radio show. “… We turned it into the officials, and they said, ‘Yes, we should have measured.’

“They came back and basically said, ‘We’re sorry.’ ’’

http://www.startribune.com/big-ten-...-ohio-state-awarded-key-first-down/497750051/

Go Gophers!!

OSU vs MN laundry list:

- 2001: refs allow pig pile after fumble. OSU recovers. MN likely wins game if they recover

-2015: (likely the most ridiculous call I've seen as a gopher fan) refs wave off targeting call after replay clears show bosa hitting Leidners helmet with the crown of his helmet and by rule a targeting and personal foul call. Pick 6 stands. Gopher have to play from behind and Leidner looks woozy rest of game.

2018: as noted

"Nothing to see here".... ridiculous
 

OSU vs MN laundry list:

- 2001: refs allow pig pile after fumble. OSU recovers. MN likely wins game if they recover

-2015: (likely the most ridiculous call I've seen as a gopher fan) refs wave off targeting call after replay clears show bosa hitting Leidners helmet with the crown of his helmet and by rule a targeting and personal foul call. Pick 6 stands. Gopher have to play from behind and Leidner looks woozy rest of game.

2018: as noted

"Nothing to see here".... ridiculous

In 2001 we lost to the Buckeyes 28-31 and I remember Tellis Redmon dang near getting his helmet ripped off after a big gain got us to the redzone. There was no flag from the official. I forget if we got a FG but I do remember the drive did not end in a touchdown and it was a big moment to not come away with 6 points.
 

Maybe I missed it but couldn't PJ have challenged the spot without waiting for a buzz from the replay booth?
 

Where is the accountability? The official should be placed on leave for the remainder of the season. There was no reason not to measure.

As I mentioned earlier if PJ makes an issue out of this miscall and talks it up to the press, he gets fined and the official gets another contract. Absolutely no accountability in the Big Ten office. They talk a big story, but so fearful of an official strike, that they are willing to accept incompetence. Sad, really sad.
 

Maybe I missed it but couldn't PJ have challenged the spot without waiting for a buzz from the replay booth?

I believe he could have. The problem is that spots are traditionally difficult to overturn and if the spot would have stood as called, it would cost the Gophers a time out. They had already spent two time outs and only had one left, if I remember correctly. Watching live, I assumed that figured into the decision to not challenge. However, I still think there was more than enough evidence on the replays they showed prior to the next snap for the booth to buzz down and say they wanted to take a look.
 

I believe he could have. The problem is that spots are traditionally difficult to overturn and if the spot would have stood as called, it would cost the Gophers a time out. They had already spent two time outs and only had one left, if I remember correctly. Watching live, I assumed that figured into the decision to not challenge. However, I still think there was more than enough evidence on the replays they showed prior to the next snap for the booth to buzz down and say they wanted to take a look.

This was on their first scoring drive, so I believe at that point we had 2 TO's left...maybe not. But, this is where wasting TO's because you can't get a play call in really hurts. He most definitely should have used a TO and asked for a review. The ref spotted the ball where the ball carrier ended up after bouncing on the turf a couple times, not where his elbow went down.
 

This was on their first scoring drive, so I believe at that point we had 2 TO's left...maybe not. But, this is where wasting TO's because you can't get a play call in really hurts. He most definitely should have used a TO and asked for a review. The ref spotted the ball where the ball carrier ended up after bouncing on the turf a couple times, not where his elbow went down.

Again, the refs said they were not going to review it even if he took a time out.

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showthread.php?84524-After-the-game-P-J-Fleck-was-told-refereeing-crew-wouldn-t-take-another-look-at-4th
 

Seriously - at the moment of the play - do you really think the referee had this going through his mind:

"the conference wants Ohio State to win, so I'd better hose Minnesota on this spot."

Sorry, I just don't accept that. The ref screwed up. he made a bad spot, and then (probably) his ego took over and he didn't want to admit he made a mistake. or - he genuinely believed it was a good spot, and there was no mistake to admit. Most people are blind to their own faults.

But, I just can't accept that it was part of some conspiracy to make sure Ohio State won the game.

Players make mistakes. coaches make mistakes. referees make mistakes. It's not part of some conspiracy. Refs are not fixing games at the order of the conference.

.......hey, maybe Annexstad threw those interceptions on purpose, because he was betting on Ohio State - or maybe gamblers were holding his family hostage, and he had to throw the game to save their lives.....

Sorry. Not a conspiracy. just football. and life. sometimes, neither one is fair.
 

Part of the issue with calling time out to have the check is they could still review it and not change it which is what I would have expected.

Also odd was the fact the announcers didn't make a mention of it at all that the spot was questionable.
 

Part of the issue with calling time out to have the check is they could still review it and not change it which is what I would have expected.

Also odd was the fact the announcers didn't make a mention of it at all that the spot was questionable.

IIRC, Joel Klatt was definitely questioning it & was wondering why there wasn't a review. Gus Johnson was agreeing with him.
 

There are three groups involved in a football game; players, coaches and referees. When a player makes a mistake too many times he is benched, when a coach makes too many mistakes he eventually gets the boot, when a referee makes too many mistakes what is the consequence? Never hear about that.
 

Seriously - at the moment of the play - do you really think the referee had this going through his mind:

"the conference wants Ohio State to win, so I'd better hose Minnesota on this spot."

Sorry, I just don't accept that. The ref screwed up. he made a bad spot, and then (probably) his ego took over and he didn't want to admit he made a mistake. or - he genuinely believed it was a good spot, and there was no mistake to admit. Most people are blind to their own faults.

But, I just can't accept that it was part of some conspiracy to make sure Ohio State won the game.

Players make mistakes. coaches make mistakes. referees make mistakes. It's not part of some conspiracy. Refs are not fixing games at the order of the conference.

.......hey, maybe Annexstad threw those interceptions on purpose, because he was betting on Ohio State - or maybe gamblers were holding his family hostage, and he had to throw the game to save their lives.....

Sorry. Not a conspiracy. just football. and life. sometimes, neither one is fair.

I don't know. I only know that every official I've ever seen, is capable of accurately making that spot call. It was very easy. 10 feet in front of him, and his whole body was down and bounced forward, and he spotted him after the bounce. It's not a mistake. It's not an accident. He purposely spotted it wrong.

Why?
-Either a conspiracy of sorts, getting hounded by OSU coaches all game about missing calls and chooses that spot for payback, or something worse.

-Or: Like most high level officials, he decided that he achieved the line to gain, and spotted the ball ahead to the next hash mark. NFL and NCAA officials try to mark every first down on a hash mark, so that it's easier for them to determine if the line to gain was reached (as opposed to the 31 and half yard line). So he might have had the spot 3 inches past the line to gain, and marked it up a yard. The 3 inches past might not match the yellow line on the screen which could be off, but would have still yielded a first down.

I would lean toward the first explanation.
 





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