Crossroads?

wdgold

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Something I have been thinking about lately is I feel this program is at some kind of crossroad with Fleck if he doesn't workout long term, but can't really put my finger on it. Just seeing what's happened since Mason was let go, with the Brewster disaster and Kills health issues we are now with our 3rd head coach since TCF opened. I do think Fleck will be gone even if he succeeds here, it will create to many opportunities for him to not go elsewhere.

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Do we think Fleck gets fired if he does poorly this year? Probably not.

So while maybe there is a moment here where things turn around, if there's no possibility of change even if they do poorly.... not sure there is really a crossroads that isn't there... the next game and the next game and so on.
 

FWIW, we are actually on our 5th head coach since TCF Bank Stadium opened: Brewster, Horton, Kill, Claeys and now Fleck.

Go Gophers!!
 

Do we think Fleck gets fired if he does poorly this year? Probably not.

So while maybe there is a moment here where things turn around, if there's no possibility of change even if they do poorly.... not sure there is really a crossroads that isn't there... the next game and the next game and so on.
Yeah Its still to early yet for Fleck. I think year 4 will tell a lot being the young team he has now.

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FWIW, we are actually on our 5th head coach since TCF Bank Stadium opened: Brewster, Horton, Kill, Claeys and now Fleck.

Go Gophers!!
I stand corrected

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Crossroads in year 2? Forget it. I'm the original Flecktic, but we have to be more realistic than that. Apart from gross and obvious incompetence, there's no reason to make a judgement before year 4.
 

Calm down. Unless his name is Tracy Claeys, most every coach is going to get at least 4 years to make his case.
 

So far, everything has progressed pretty close to what Fleck has been saying since the day he arrived. It does appear the team is building and will be better next year and especially the year after that. So, it would be quite shocking for him to appear on a hot seat after this season. Not next year really either. 2020, maybe if the team is still hovering around .500 overall with 1 or 2 win conference seasons.

I am a bit concerned about the defense. After watching some very good D under Kill/Claeys, I was concerned when the new D coordinator had a history at Arkansas of declining D to the point of being fired. Unlike the offense, the Gopher D has non-freshmen manning most of the positions. 2 games is not necessarily a trend but echoes of Wacker teams are currently dancing in my head.

Perhaps some of this is scheme related. Kill (properly, in my mind) had great ball control running teams. That automatically makes any defense better. The Gophers now lack a running game (yes, injuries do hurt too) and with all the passing it is raising the time the D needs to be on the field. Either way, it has been two bad weeks of giving up lots of points.
 

Crossroads in year 2? Forget it. I'm the original Flecktic, but we have to be more realistic than that. Apart from gross and obvious incompetence, there's no reason to make a judgement before year 4.


And since this is only year 1, we have 3 more years before we can make a decision at that crossroad.
 



Crossroads in year 2? Forget it. I'm the original Flecktic, but we have to be more realistic than that. Apart from gross and obvious incompetence, there's no reason to make a judgement before year 4.
I guess I need to clarify my original post. I guess I'm not referring to this year specifically but as whole if Fleck does not work out.

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Calm down. Unless his name is Tracy Claeys, most every coach is going to get at least 4 years to make his case.
I think I'm being misunderstood from my original post sorry for that.

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I think I'm being misunderstood from my original post sorry for that.

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I think perhaps your idea of "crossroads" is different than others.

A crossroads is where things go in a different directions.

Win or lose over the rest of the year.... I don't think the overall direction necessarily is likely to change.
 

I guess I need to clarify my original post. I guess I'm not referring to this year specifically but as whole if Fleck does not work out.

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I know what you mean, but where do you think that road would lead, even if it's a negative place? The program has had some terrible teams over the years. Then a new coach is hired and rebuilds. We haven't gotten to where we'd like to be, but we've been to hell a few times and survived.

That Salem team was probably the worst in college football. Even after that season we were able to hire Lou Holtz, who would've taken us to a Rose Bowl (I expect to hear from a few non-Holtz people now). He left and Bobby Ross was interested in the job; we passed and he went to Georgia Tech and won a national championship. Kill/Claeys had us going well, and we were able to get Fleck, maybe the hottest commodity that year.

It's about hiring the right coach and getting the right support from the administration. If Fleck fails, we'll hire a new guy and try again. Unfortunately, that's what we do in Minnesota. We're bound to get it right some day.
 



I know what you mean, but where do you think that road would lead, even if it's a negative place? The program has had some terrible teams over the years. Then a new coach is hired and rebuilds. We haven't gotten to where we'd like to be, but we've been to hell a few times and survived.

That Salem team was probably the worst in college football. Even after that season we were able to hire Lou Holtz, who would've taken us to a Rose Bowl (I expect to hear from a few non-Holtz people now). He left and Bobby Ross was interested in the job; we passed and he went to Georgia Tech and won a national championship. Kill/Claeys had us going well, and we were able to get Fleck, maybe the hottest commodity that year.

It's about hiring the right coach and getting the right support from the administration. If Fleck fails, we'll hire a new guy and try again. Unfortunately, that's what we do in Minnesota. We're bound to get it right some day.
+1

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There is zero chance of Fleck being fired this year or next.
 


We are so close to a breakthrough right now. We have talent at the skill positions exceeding anything in the last 15 years. We have lots of highly regarded recruits in the trenches that will help our line play be a strength as soon as next year (not sure if Bargy will be able to contribute immediately or if he’ll need a year to add weight)... our secondary is young and holding up ok besides losing Winfield, but many of the mistakes leading to big plays are just freshman mistakes. The Iowa game changed on the 4th down /trick play execution. Maryland scored a lot of points, but honestly they didn’t drive the ball (I know part of that is from getting the big plays). The team has honestly shown me what I hoped for this year... Now that we are burning Faalele’s RS, I wish we had just played him all along though.
 

It seems like some fans want to fire Fleck in case he's successful and leaves us.
 

Something I have been thinking about lately is I feel this program is at some kind of crossroad with Fleck if he doesn't workout long term, but can't really put my finger on it. Just seeing what's happened since Mason was let go, with the Brewster disaster and Kills health issues we are now with our 3rd head coach since TCF opened. I do think Fleck will be gone even if he succeeds here, it will create to many opportunities for him to not go elsewhere.

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Fleck has said (not a direct quote but true) that his goal in life is to take a team that is down (but having the facilities to make it feasible) and taking it all the way to the national title. He chose MN to do it. That is of course if the administration will allow him to do it.


Which will be important who is hired as the next U's President.
 

I don't know if "crossroads" is the right term. More like deja vu from my point of view.

Hire new coach - fans get excited. new coach has mixed success. eventually coach leaves. hire new coach - lather, rinse, repeat.

There are people who think Fleck is "the one" (sorry, Neo) who can break the cycle. I am skeptical about that, but time will tell.

I just think people - especially the longer-term fans - are just getting 'cycle fatigue' from watching this over and over again. If you were going to grade the team's performance, it's like the Gophers go from an F or a D, build up to a C+ or B-, maybe even flirt with a better grade, but then they slip backwards, and the cycle repeats.

for myself, and I think a lot of other long-term fans, we just want to see the Gophers move up to that A- or even A level once - just to see if it's possible.

if the football gods appeared in a cloud of smoke, and pronounced that the Gophers will never reach that mark, I think I could live with that, as long as they managed to crank out some 8-win or even 9-win seasons now and then. but, if the football gods said that it was going to be that 6-win and 7-win rut until the end of time, I think I would just say "bleep it." I've invested too much time and emotion. I want a return on my investment. and, like any stock, if it never performs, sooner or later you're going to sell.
 


I don't know if "crossroads" is the right term. More like deja vu from my point of view.

Hire new coach - fans get excited. new coach has mixed success. eventually coach leaves. hire new coach - lather, rinse, repeat.

There are people who think Fleck is "the one" (sorry, Neo) who can break the cycle. I am skeptical about that, but time will tell.

I just think people - especially the longer-term fans - are just getting 'cycle fatigue' from watching this over and over again. If you were going to grade the team's performance, it's like the Gophers go from an F or a D, build up to a C+ or B-, maybe even flirt with a better grade, but then they slip backwards, and the cycle repeats.

for myself, and I think a lot of other long-term fans, we just want to see the Gophers move up to that A- or even A level once - just to see if it's possible.

if the football gods appeared in a cloud of smoke, and pronounced that the Gophers will never reach that mark, I think I could live with that, as long as they managed to crank out some 8-win or even 9-win seasons now and then. but, if the football gods said that it was going to be that 6-win and 7-win rut until the end of time, I think I would just say "bleep it." I've invested too much time and emotion. I want a return on my investment. and, like any stock, if it never performs, sooner or later you're going to sell.

I'm one of those longtime suffering fans who is getting fatigued. I would love a championship, but all I really need is competitiveness. That could mean -- but doesn't necessarily mean -- 8 or 9 wins. You can win nine games against bad competition and know you have no chance against the best teams. Or you can compete with the best and still win only 8 or 9 games. I just want to go to games against Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio State and think we can win without a fluke.

The Gopher basketball team got by on that alone for years in the 1990s. Between the Elite Eight and Final Four runs, they were mostly a bubble teams at .500 in the Big Ten. But you went the Barn knowing they could beat anybody that night.
 

If we don't finish with six wins this year, I'm going to start getting a little antsy. Not up in arms, but uneasy. That would mean we fell on our face against lower-tier conferences teams.

In 2019, I'm expecting a winning season. If we aren't close to .500 in conference play, the heat should be on in 2020.

In 2020, it's time to start testing the upward limits. If the program doesn't look like it's poised to make a leap forward by the end of the season, it's probably all over for PJ.

Like I said before, you can't keep selling players and fans on being "elite" if you don't post winning records. And with the price barrier the administration has thrown up around the program, it's going to take a lot to move the needle on ticket sales.

JTG
 


So far, everything has progressed pretty close to what Fleck has been saying since the day he arrived. It does appear the team is building and will be better next year and especially the year after that. So, it would be quite shocking for him to appear on a hot seat after this season. Not next year really either. 2020, maybe if the team is still hovering around .500 overall with 1 or 2 win conference seasons.

I am a bit concerned about the defense. After watching some very good D under Kill/Claeys, I was concerned when the new D coordinator had a history at Arkansas of declining D to the point of being fired. Unlike the offense, the Gopher D has non-freshmen manning most of the positions. 2 games is not necessarily a trend but echoes of Wacker teams are currently dancing in my head.

Perhaps some of this is scheme related. Kill (properly, in my mind) had great ball control running teams. That automatically makes any defense better. The Gophers now lack a running game (yes, injuries do hurt too) and with all the passing it is raising the time the D needs to be on the field. Either way, it has been two bad weeks of giving up lots of points.

Defense does look in decline but a more balanced offense is building. Still, if the Gophers go 4-8 this year, gloom will settle in for ticket buyers.
 


I don't even want to think that, but I still believe he is here for a minimum of five years no matter what (unless there is another scandal of course).

We wont go 2-10. Fleck will make it 5+ years. Im a believer in Fleck.
 

Something I have been thinking about lately is I feel this program is at some kind of crossroad with Fleck if he doesn't workout long term, but can't really put my finger on it. Just seeing what's happened since Mason was let go, with the Brewster disaster and Kills health issues we are now with our 3rd head coach since TCF opened. I do think Fleck will be gone even if he succeeds here, it will create to many opportunities for him to not go elsewhere.

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To say the program is at a crossroads under Fleck right now is absurd. He's got freshman playing everywhere on the field, his 2 best offensive players are out with injuries, as is his best defensive player. Two years from now if the program still looks like it does now, then you can say that. Look ahead to next year, you'll have senior athletes in Rodney Smith, Shannon Brooks and Tyler Johnson. Annexstad should learn a ton the rest of this season heading into next year, and all the receivers will be a year older.

This team will be vastly more experienced next year and should be contending for West title by 2020, if not next year. Fleck has coached 11 Big Ten games, this program isn't even remotely close to being at a crossroads.
 

To say the program is at a crossroads under Fleck right now is absurd. He's got freshman playing everywhere on the field, his 2 best offensive players are out with injuries, as is his best defensive player. Two years from now if the program still looks like it does now, then you can say that. Look ahead to next year, you'll have senior athletes in Rodney Smith, Shannon Brooks and Tyler Johnson. Annexstad should learn a ton the rest of this season heading into next year, and all the receivers will be a year older.

This team will be vastly more experienced next year and should be contending for West title by 2020, if not next year. Fleck has coached 11 Big Ten games, this program isn't even remotely close to being at a crossroads.
I think you misunderstood my post this is not what I'm saying at all

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I don't know if "crossroads" is the right term. More like deja vu from my point of view.

Hire new coach - fans get excited. new coach has mixed success. eventually coach leaves. hire new coach - lather, rinse, repeat.

There are people who think Fleck is "the one" (sorry, Neo) who can break the cycle. I am skeptical about that, but time will tell.

I just think people - especially the longer-term fans - are just getting 'cycle fatigue' from watching this over and over again. If you were going to grade the team's performance, it's like the Gophers go from an F or a D, build up to a C+ or B-, maybe even flirt with a better grade, but then they slip backwards, and the cycle repeats.

for myself, and I think a lot of other long-term fans, we just want to see the Gophers move up to that A- or even A level once - just to see if it's possible.

if the football gods appeared in a cloud of smoke, and pronounced that the Gophers will never reach that mark, I think I could live with that, as long as they managed to crank out some 8-win or even 9-win seasons now and then. but, if the football gods said that it was going to be that 6-win and 7-win rut until the end of time, I think I would just say "bleep it." I've invested too much time and emotion. I want a return on my investment. and, like any stock, if it never performs, sooner or later you're going to sell.
Other than Holtz, when had a coach ever left the program due to success or better opportunity?

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