SI: The $23 Million Question: Why Do Some Twins Fans Despise Hometown Hero Joe Mauer?

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per SI:

Gaze at the Minnesota Twins’ all-time leaders, and Joe Mauer will be in 27 different categories. Nestled among franchise icons like Harmon Killebrew, Rod Carew and Kirby Puckett, Mauer sits near the top of the the traditional categories (hits, on-base percentage, runs), the favored sabermetric stats (total WAR, weighted runs created, win probability added) and the ignominious distinctions (strikeouts, double plays grounded into, outs made). All of which is to say that Mauer is a lifelong Minnesota Twin, and his No. 7 will likely be retired sometime in the next decade. Mauer announced earlier this month that he will consider retirement in the offseason after 15 seasons in the big leagues

Add his records to his status as hometown hero—the St. Paul-raised three-sport prep star drafted first overall by the Twins—and you’d think his reputation would be pristine in a city fiercely defensive of its own.

That was all true until he made $23 million per year.

A vocal subset of Twins fans want Mauer out, arguing that he is undeserving of the eight-year, $184 million contract he signed in 2010. They cite statistics (he hasn’t hit more than 11 homers since signing the contract after hitting 28 in 2009), his effort level (many questioned why he missed almost half the season with bilateral leg weakness in '11) and his personality (rote and stilted to many). Some think it’s restricted to the darker corners of Twins internet. Others think it’s more than a vocal minority.

“Some of us started to call him ‘Baby Jesus,’” says Andy Rennecke, a former sportswriter and Twins lifer who is a proud Mauer cynic. “It felt like you couldn’t be critical of Joe because everybody felt like he walked on water. He was one of us. How dare anyone be critical of him.”

“Had [Mauer] left for the Red Sox or Yankees in 2010, those same fans who are calling for his head now would have burned down Target Field,” says Aaron Gleeman, Editor-in-Chief of Baseball Prospectus and host of the Twins podcast Gleeman and the Geek. “There are all sorts of these inferiority complexes at play and there are some fans where no amount of context matters, they just like to get mad.”

His laconic disposition doesn’t endear himself to everyone, and those critics are further emboldened by the team’s disappointing 2018 campaign. After reaching the AL Wild-Card Game last year against the Yankees, Minnesota is 72–83 as the season nears its conclusion. Mauer’s fine if unremarkable season sits at .276/.344/.374 with six homers, his lowest total in a season which he’s played over 100 games. Rennecke says the fan base didn’t really sour on Mauer until 2011, when the $23 million man played only 82 games because of bilateral leg weakness—an injury indecipherable and thus unacceptable to a lot of the fan base.

“Joe’s personality lends itself to a lot of ridicule. He shows no emotions, he’s always the same guy. He’s almost like a robot,” Rennecke says. “So, when he was suffering from a mysterious injury like “bilateral leg weakness” in 2011 and getting $23 million per season while the team was tanking, fans started to rebel against him.

“In Minnesota, we're hardworking people and don't like it if you're being paid and you’re not out there performing.”

https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/09/25/joe-mauer-minnesota-twins

Win Twins!!
 

Because we haven't been good for many years, and part of that is because of his massive contract, and he's underperformed on his massive contract.
 


Excellent summation.

thanks! I don't think people really despise Mauer either. I like the guy, he has been a great twin. But his tenure has been disappointing since his MVP season.
 

It's all part of the weird self-loathing thing we do in Minnesota. Joe Mauer was a local hero until he signed the big contract, because as Minnesotans see it, signing a big-money contract is somehow antithetical to that self-effacing Minnesota attitude. Even if he was worth $23 million a year (which he probably was given trends in contracts at the time), signing the deal made it harder for regular (read - not rich) fans to relate to Mauer. Right or wrong, we expect our local heroes to sign for a home-town discount - because they should want to be in MN so much, that they'll take less money to stay here.

And of course, Mauer's production didn't live up to the contract - in the eyes of the fans. They wanted every season to be like 2009, and it just didn't happen. In all fairness, Mauer was on a Hall-of-Fame track until the injuries - especially the concussions. If he had stayed healthy, he could have caught for a few more years, and assuming his numbers stayed relatively close to his career averages, he would have been a clear Hall-of-Famer.

Sadly, because of the injuries, we'll never know what Mauer might have been. All catchers tend to see some kind of decline with age - Mauer's decline was just exacerbated because of the injuries.

As a Twins fan, those are the things we agonize about. What if Tony Oliva had played his whole career with two good knees? What if Mauer and Morneau had played their entire careers healthy and in the same lineup?

Oh well. We'll always have '87 and '91 (at least those of us old enough to remember.)
 


thanks! I don't think people really despise Mauer either. I like the guy, he has been a great twin. But his tenure has been disappointing since his MVP season.

There are a lot of Twins fans that truly hate him. It's astounding.

Your statement about the contracts is valid to some degree, but I think it is overblown. If you look at the payroll numbers before and during the big contract, you'll see the Twins payroll went way down even with Mauer's contract.

Opening Day payroll (number in parentheses is MLB rank):
2010 - $97M (11th)
2011 - $112M (first year of Mauer's big contract) (9th)
2012 - $94M (13th)
2013 - $75M (22nd)
2014 - $85M (24th)
2015 - $108M (18th)
2016 - $108M (18th)
2017 - $92M (22nd)
2018 - $131M (18th)

Mauer's contract didn't help but they also stopped spending for awhile.
 
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It's all part of the weird self-loathing thing we do in Minnesota. Joe Mauer was a local hero until he signed the big contract, because as Minnesotans see it, signing a big-money contract is somehow antithetical to that self-effacing Minnesota attitude. Even if he was worth $23 million a year (which he probably was given trends in contracts at the time), signing the deal made it harder for regular (read - not rich) fans to relate to Mauer. Right or wrong, we expect our local heroes to sign for a home-town discount - because they should want to be in MN so much, that they'll take less money to stay here.

And of course, Mauer's production didn't live up to the contract - in the eyes of the fans. They wanted every season to be like 2009, and it just didn't happen. In all fairness, Mauer was on a Hall-of-Fame track until the injuries - especially the concussions. If he had stayed healthy, he could have caught for a few more years, and assuming his numbers stayed relatively close to his career averages, he would have been a clear Hall-of-Famer.

Sadly, because of the injuries, we'll never know what Mauer might have been. All catchers tend to see some kind of decline with age - Mauer's decline was just exacerbated because of the injuries.

As a Twins fan, those are the things we agonize about. What if Tony Oliva had played his whole career with two good knees? What if Mauer and Morneau had played their entire careers healthy and in the same lineup?

Oh well. We'll always have '87 and '91 (at least those of us old enough to remember.)

Yep. I think it was an odd combination of jealousy and the factors you cite above. Outside of the fact that he's never been one to partcululary play through injuries, I don't get the hate. The contract was fair under the circumstances in which it was signed, and it's not Joe's fault that concussions forced a position change. We now know that most catchers suffer concussions on a regular basis and the era of guys playing that position for 10-15 years is probably over.
 

There are a lot of Twins fans that truly hate him. It's astounding.

Your statement about the contracts is valid to some degree, but I think it is overblown. If you look at the payroll numbers before and during the big contract, you'll see the Twins payroll went way down even with Mauer's contract.

Opening Day payroll:
2010 - $97M
2011 - $112M (first year of Mauer's big contract)
2012 - $94M
2013 - $75M
2014 - $85M
2015 - $108M
2016 - $108M
2017 - $92M
2018 - $131M

Mauer's contract didn't help but they also stopped spending for awhile.

Those are valid points. Maybe he was a draw, so his big contract is offset, as well. I don't really get the hate though, I don't ever hear anyone that "despises" him, so maybe we're going off social media posts, which I don't think is a good barometer.
 

Because we haven't been good for many years, and part of that is because of his massive contract, and he's underperformed on his massive contract.

Partially true.

I would add the unwillingness of the organization to spend additional $$.
 



I don't hate him and wouldn't mind him coming back for peanuts compared to what he has been getting. With that said...He has been a below average hitter for a 1B for the majority of his big contract...that is just a fact.
 

“Let’s look at the real thing, and that’s the W-L record. He’s a great player, a Twins Hall of Famer, but he’s also one of most overrated players of his generation,” Rennecke says. “He’s a singles hitter that turned one big year into a huge contract. He’s Minnesota’s Ryan Howard.”

I've had interactions with this Rennecke guy before on twitter and he would say the same thing. That Mauer had one great year and has always been overrated. Mauer was one of the best and most valuable players in all of baseball from 2006-2010. He was doing things that very few catchers had ever done before. I think that because of the last 7-8 years, people tend to forget how good he really was.

The payroll numbers I posted above show that the Twins did very little to add talent around him once he signed the big contract. This isn't basketball, one player can only have so much of an impact. Look at the Angels with Mike Trout.

And when it comes to the contract, at least the Twins also had him when he was extremely underpaid. No one was complaining about his contract when he hit .347 while making $400K.
 

I attend 20+ games a year, and I have to say the people who actually attend games appreciate Mauer. He is a giant draw for local kids. The sabermetrics at home crowd are the hardest on Joe.
 

He never became a leader though with his personality he was never going to be. I think a lot of people expected Kirby Puckett and instead we got an aw shucks good ball player. It is true he didn't play through his injuries but he is a stand up guy and never got into trouble. His biggest problem is that he is boring.
 



He never became a leader though with his personality he was never going to be. I think a lot of people expected Kirby Puckett and instead we got an aw shucks good ball player. It is true he didn't play through his injuries but he is a stand up guy and never got into trouble. His biggest problem is that he is boring.

Minnesotans are OK with boring, but only if you have the Bud Grant/Mike Zimmer personality to go with it.
 

As someone reminded me in a story I read - 3 batting titles and an AL MVP award by age 26, and playing a gold-glove caliber catcher. Think about that for a second.

The Mauer story is one of amazing promise short-circuited by injuries. As I said before, give Mauer just 3 or 4 more healthy seasons, and he's a cinch hall-of-famer.

Another MN Sports What-If. Oliva. Puckett. Mauer. Morneau.
 

I admit I stopped following the Twins closely about 7 years ago, so this is definitely an outsider view which may not factually accurate. But it's my perception and probably similar to those like me.

Fans are watching a guy whose hitting numbers have plummeted the past 6 years (since the contract took effect), who makes no impact in the locker room, who has a reputation of not fighting through injuries when maybe he could be, during which the team has been largely horrible, all while making so much money the team can't afford to get much of anyone else to help.

Yet despite this horrible stretch the Twins are in and his own sub-par performance, Joe gives off a vibe that none of this really bothers him. This is what irks me. I mean throw a chair in the dugout or curse during an interview... just something to show that he is bothered by what has been happening.

I was a teenager when the Twins won their two world series, and all you ever heard about is how much the guys on those teams liked each other, the pranks they played in the locker room, Kirby always being fired up and giving it his all. It was easy to love those teams and especially Kirby. Even if he had a slump (which was rare), he contributed in so many other ways with his attitude that he still provied his worth.

Now watching the Twins of 2010s, their star player is a nice guy, but completely lifeless player who peaked when he was 26, who has no intangibles to fall back on.
 

who makes no impact in the locker room

How do we know that?

all while making so much money the team can't afford to get much of anyone else to help.

Read my previous post. In many years, this is false. The team just didn't spend money. There were years where they spent significantly less than they did prior to Mauer's contract.

Joe gives off a vibe that none of this really bothers him. This is what irks me. I mean throw a chair in the dugout or curse during an interview... just something to show that he is bothered by what has been happening.

So essentially be someone he's not? He argues balls and strikes. He gets excited when the team wins. Tony Dungy is considered one of the best coaches of all-time, yet he never swore, threw stuff, etc. There's more than one way to be a leader.
 

Because we haven't been good for many years, and part of that is because of his massive contract, and he's underperformed on his massive contract.
His massive contract didn't prevent us from overpaying the likes of Vance Worley, Kevin Correia, Rickey Nolasco, Phil Hughes and Mike Pelfrey, we've been willing to spend, just made dumb decisions

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

Minnesotans are OK with boring, but only if you have the Bud Grant/Mike Zimmer personality to go with it.

I think the leash is going to be short with Zimmer. The Vikings are unraveling. Last year was last year with lots of smoke and mirrors. Will always bleed purple and maroon and gold.
 

I admit I stopped following the Twins closely about 7 years ago, so this is definitely an outsider view which may not factually accurate. But it's my perception and probably similar to those like me.

Fans are watching a guy whose hitting numbers have plummeted the past 6 years (since the contract took effect), who makes no impact in the locker room, who has a reputation of not fighting through injuries when maybe he could be, during which the team has been largely horrible, all while making so much money the team can't afford to get much of anyone else to help.

Yet despite this horrible stretch the Twins are in and his own sub-par performance, Joe gives off a vibe that none of this really bothers him. This is what irks me. I mean throw a chair in the dugout or curse during an interview... just something to show that he is bothered by what has been happening.

I was a teenager when the Twins won their two world series, and all you ever heard about is how much the guys on those teams liked each other, the pranks they played in the locker room, Kirby always being fired up and giving it his all. It was easy to love those teams and especially Kirby. Even if he had a slump (which was rare), he contributed in so many other ways with his attitude that he still provied his worth.

Now watching the Twins of 2010s, their star player is a nice guy, but completely lifeless player who peaked when he was 26, who has no intangibles to fall back on.

He hit .320 three years into the contract. The notion that he became a terrible player the minute the contract is simply false. He's declined since the concussions in late 2013 with a bounce back last year.

Torii Hunter was not a better player than Joe Mauer overall. Not even close really. But since he would throw a chair or punch Morneau in the face, he is a "better leader" and more beloved. Personally, I don't buy it.
 

He hit .320 three years into the contract. The notion that he became a terrible player the minute the contract is simply false. He's declined since the concussions in late 2013 with a bounce back last year.

Torii Hunter was not a better player than Joe Mauer overall. Not even close really. But since he would throw a chair or punch Morneau in the face, he is a "better leader" and more beloved. Personally, I don't buy it.
Mauer was also the best catcher in baseball from 2006-2013, not even close Hunter was a good player but he's nowhere near the greatest outfielders of all time

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There are a lot of Twins fans that truly hate him. It's astounding.

Your statement about the contracts is valid to some degree, but I think it is overblown. If you look at the payroll numbers before and during the big contract, you'll see the Twins payroll went way down even with Mauer's contract.

Opening Day payroll (number in parentheses is MLB rank):
2010 - $97M (11th)
2011 - $112M (first year of Mauer's big contract) (9th)
2012 - $94M (13th)
2013 - $75M (22nd)
2014 - $85M (24th)
2015 - $108M (18th)
2016 - $108M (18th)
2017 - $92M (22nd)
2018 - $131M (18th)

Mauer's contract didn't help but they also stopped spending for awhile.

I’m home with my sick daughter so I have a lot of time to kill today. Expanding on this to show the top 5 paid players each season. Not only did they not spend much many of the years of Mauer’s contract but the little they did didn’t work out too well. A few years are pretty comical.

2010 - Morneau 15M, Mauer 12.5M, Cuddyer 9.4M, Pavano 7M, Hardy 5.1M
2011 - Mauer 23M, Morneau 15M, Nathan 11.25M, Cuddyer 10.5M, Pavano 8M
2012 - Mauer 23M, Morneau 14M, Pavano 8.5M, Willingham 7M, Liriano 5.5M
2013 - Mauer 23M, Willingham 7M, Correia 4.5M, Pelfrey 4M, Doumit 3.5M
2014 - Mauer 23M, Nolasco 12M, Hughes 8M, Willingham 7M, Correia 5.5M
2015 - Mauer 23M, Santana 13.5M, Nolasco 12M, Hunter 10.5M, Hughes 9.2M
2016 - Mauer 23M, Santana 13.5M, Hughes 9.2M, Plouffe 7.25M, Perkins 6.3M
2017 - Mauer 23M, Santana 13.5M, Hughes 13.2, Castro 8.5M, Santiago 8M
2018 - Mauer 23M, Santana 13.5M, Lynn 12M, Dozier 9M, Reed 8.25M
 

I’m home with my sick daughter so I have a lot of time to kill today. Expanding on this to show the top 5 paid players each season. Not only did they not spend much many of the years of Mauer’s contract but the little they did didn’t work out too well. A few years are pretty comical.

2010 - Morneau 15M, Mauer 12.5M, Cuddyer 9.4M, Pavano 7M, Hardy 5.1M
2011 - Mauer 23M, Morneau 15M, Nathan 11.25M, Cuddyer 10.5M, Pavano 8M
2012 - Mauer 23M, Morneau 14M, Pavano 8.5M, Willingham 7M, Liriano 5.5M
2013 - Mauer 23M, Willingham 7M, Correia 4.5M, Pelfrey 4M, Doumit 3.5M
2014 - Mauer 23M, Nolasco 12M, Hughes 8M, Willingham 7M, Correia 5.5M
2015 - Mauer 23M, Santana 13.5M, Nolasco 12M, Hunter 10.5M, Hughes 9.2M
2016 - Mauer 23M, Santana 13.5M, Hughes 9.2M, Plouffe 7.25M, Perkins 6.3M
2017 - Mauer 23M, Santana 13.5M, Hughes 13.2, Castro 8.5M, Santiago 8M
2018 - Mauer 23M, Santana 13.5M, Lynn 12M, Dozier 9M, Reed 8.25M

My god. 2013 is pathetic. You can't put that on Mauer. Terry Ryan should be ashamed of himself.
 

I would argue that he still took a discount to stay home. It shouldn't matter how much he signed for, Minnesotans should embrace JM and be proud of his accomplishments. He has always been one of my favorite ball players, he should be one of yours too. Would have been nice if JM had some solid talent around him the past several years.
 

I would argue that he still took a discount to stay home. It shouldn't matter how much he signed for, Minnesotans should embrace JM and be proud of his accomplishments. He has always been one of my favorite ball players, he should be one of yours too. Would have been nice if JM had some solid talent around him the past several years.

Yep, he absolutely took a discount. He would have gotten more if he waited for free agency.
 


This might be a little out there, but I felt when Kfan failed to secure the Twins contract that their on air personalities got salty towards the Twins and Joe was an easy target. There are rubes in this town that will drink the Vikings/Kfan cool aid and Barrero loved to rip on Mauer.
He has been a great player and for awhile was the best player in baseball. When he and Morneau were both healthy, things were looking really good for the Twins.
He has also been a very humble through the good and not so good times.
 


The money they paid Nolasco would have been better used if they threw it in a garbage can and and burned it to keep warm in the bullpen.

For years, one of the biggest complaints against the front office was that they kept grabbing below-average pitchers off the scrap heap. So what happens this year - Odorizzi, Lynn, Duke, etc. Slightly better resumes, but none of them worked out, and all except Odorizzi were dealt for relatively low-level prospects.
 

Rumor is Mauer will announce something before the game tomorrow. I hope he does, so he can have a proper send off.
 




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