Tight ends in the passing game

UpAndUnder43

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I understand they are blocking and all that, but I’m surprised at the lack of involvement of tight ends in the passing game. I believe the only reception so far is the 2pt conversion by Kieft and the only other target was the near INT on the sideline vs Fresno St.

Anyone have insight? Would like to see more involvement but maybe they don’t have pass catchers at that position right now. If thats the case Id like to see Spann-Ford get some reps
 

I remember talk early on when Fleck got here about the TE not really being a key part of this offense (at least as far as catching passes goes). Going to take some time to adjust to seeing competent receivers catching passes as we have become conditioned to think that it is against the rules to throw to those guys in recent years. :clap:
 

IMHO, I think once the WR game becomes really established you will see the TE doing more than just blocking. It is too important a weapon to just be blockers under certain conditions where you can stretch defenses.
 

Glorified offensive guards, that motion around to get into position to block.
 

IMHO, I think once the WR game becomes really established you will see the TE doing more than just blocking. It is too important a weapon to just be blockers under certain conditions where you can stretch defenses.

This. Minnesota isn't going to show the B1G the whole playbook right now.

Also, Green will likely be used as a TE-like receiver.
 


Thanks for the thoughts. I'm just surprised they haven't caught more balls by accident. One target within the normal offense and it was on a scramble that Annexstad probably should have thrown to the 5th row.
 

We're in uncharted territory if all you've known is Glen Mason's teams till now for the Gophers. I leave it to others to give some history for Gutey or Wacker and TEs.

Having more than two competent WRs is just not the norm over the Mason to now period...needed the TEs in the passing game too.

Of course Maxx was the epitome of this circumstance and I always wished he'd stayed all four years...

Maybe the first year of Brew's tenure with Weber at QB trying to implement a spread offense is close. If I remember correctly he had Decker as his main guy but really the passing was short 3-4 yard completions where we could not get the ball down the field.

Point is that it's a different emphasis so far. As noted earlier probably too early to judge how TEs will fit in the passing game.
 

Checked 2016 MAC FB Stats. Western Michigan’s leading TE was Ernsberger with 9 receptions for 112 yards. Davis, Henry, and Thompson had combined total of 202 receptions- Davis had 97; Henry 63; Thompson 42. I don’t have any numbers on targets to TE though.
 

it is only game two. the playbook is probably at page 3. I expect we may see more as the offense develops.
 



I think it comes down to how the OL is working.

We're passing over the middle nicely as it is and we want to protect Zack.

Do well and everything loosens up.
 


Checked 2016 MAC FB Stats. Western Michigan’s leading TE was Ernsberger with 9 receptions for 112 yards. Davis, Henry, and Thompson had combined total of 202 receptions- Davis had 97; Henry 63; Thompson 42. I don’t have any numbers on targets to TE though.

Went all the way back to 2013 when PJ started at WMU Here is their use of the TE
Year Top TE Stats Total TE catches/Team catches Total TE yards/Team Yards
2013........20 for 196........45 of 215 21%..........456 of 2532 18%
2014........10 for 60..........10 of 253 4%..........60 of 3475 2%
2015.........4 for 50........... 8 of 273 3%...........72 of 3736 2%
2016.........9 for 112.........14 of 263 5%...........170 of 3533 5%

Pretty consistent with their non-use after the first year, so I don't foresee our TE use changing much from this trend. As much as we want to think Brevyn should get balls thrown to him, whether that is this year or in the coming ones, it really doesn't look like any TE will ever be a big target in this offense. They really on the TE as a blocker first and foremost and the position is an after thought in the passing game. They developed a prolific passing attack without really using the TE in a pass catching role. Hoping they can do the same with the passing attack and it looks like they have some guys in Johnson, Autman-Bell, Douglass, and Bateman this year who could really develop and with the last three could be quite special in a couple years.
 

Did lack of TE pass catching hurt Western Michigan in the bowl game against Wisconsin?
 




Only one ball to go around. Blocking TE is more important at this point and it really keeps the element of surprise there like with the 2 pt. play. Our OC seems like the type to adapt to the skill of the players, but they aren't going to burn Spann-Ford's red-shirt to throw a couple extra passes to TE. I see more RB screens and swing passes.

It will be fun watching the offense evolve.
 


I think the passing game is fine as is. I'm sure Seth Green will get involved eventually.
 

I don’t think that Minnesota has had a group of WRs this good, ever. I mean it. There are only so many throws and so many catches.

As said above, our norm has been one pretty good wide receiver, a bunch of average ones and a decent tight end. For 60 years.

Welcome to the new norm. Fleck is going to get good to great WR because he’s walked the walk and can back up his talk. Love it.
 

Our TEs are not good WRs

Are you suggesting our TEs have poor hands or that they lack other skills necessary to be successful (good speed, route-running etc.)


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As said above, our norm has been one pretty good wide receiver, a bunch of average ones and a decent tight end. For 60 years.

There is no NCAA rule that I'm aware of forbidding a team to have great wide outs and a great TE.
 

Are you suggesting our TEs have poor hands or that they lack other skills necessary to be successful (good speed, route-running etc.)


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I’m sure their hands are fine.


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TEs are devastating in the passing game - a total mystery why we haven't used them more over the years. The good ones, like Matt Spaeth and Maxx Williams can catch and block.
 

Did anyone notice TE Ko Kieft catching the pass from Seth Green to put the Fresno game away? The coaches and Green obviously trusted him to catch the ball and surprise the DB's. Ko was supposedly in for his blocking abilities but he is a TE and can catch passes especially if downfield speed not required. Other TE's (Spann-Ford, Paulson?) might do even better.

The TE's will be used esp. when they can be surprise receivers. A TE downfield blocking on a WR reception can also do more than slow down a DB. He could seriously ruin his day.
 
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I don’t think that Minnesota has had a group of WRs this good, ever. I mean it. There are only so many throws and so many catches.

As said above, our norm has been one pretty good wide receiver, a bunch of average ones and a decent tight end. For 60 years.

Welcome to the new norm. Fleck is going to get good to great WR because he’s walked the walk and can back up his talk. Love it.

It helps when you actually have a QB that can throw catchable balls. I am wondering if our offense will be similar to WMU where TE are not utilized as much in the catching game.

IMHO, they should mix plays in where a TE to do a lot of damage with YAC. It is still too early as our O-Line need to gel together even more. I hope we don't lose Jared Weyler to injury. He is such an important cog in the wheel.
 

It helps when you actually have a QB that can throw catchable balls. I am wondering if our offense will be similar to WMU where TE are not utilized as much in the catching game.

IMHO, they should mix plays in where a TE to do a lot of damage with YAC. It is still too early as our O-Line need to gel together even more. I hope we don't lose Jared Weyler to injury. He is such an important cog in the wheel.

Is Weyler currently hurt or is that just a general statement saying you don’t want a player to be injured?
 

Did anyone notice TE Ko Kieft catching the pass from Seth Green to put the Fresno game away? The coaches and Green obviously trusted him to catch the ball and surprise the DB's. Ko was supposedly in for his blocking abilities but he is a TE and can catch passes especially if downfield speed not required. Other TE's (Spann-Ford, Paulson?) might do even better.

The TE's will be used esp. when they can be surprise receivers. A TE downfield blocking on a WR reception can also do more than slow down a DB. He could seriously ruin his day.

We did notice. It’s too bad they don’t throw to them in normal game situations (as opposed to goal line).
 


I don't expect the TE to ever be a big part of our passing game. It's simply not part of Fleck's offense.

His offense, pretty much every year at WMU and so far here, has been power running and vertical passing. He keeps the TE in to block and allow the WRs more time to get into their deep routes.

This is part of the reason why Seth Green is actually more of a WR than a TE. He's just a really big WR.

This could all be changed, PJ seems like a coach willing to adjust to his team's strengths. I think we'll find out sooner rather than later with Brevyn Spann Ford. HE is an incredible talent. Personally, because of PJ's offense in the past, I wouldn't be shocked to see the kid end up at DE. However, if he doesn't, we might see a wrinkle in PJ's offense.
 

I don't expect the TE to ever be a big part of our passing game. It's simply not part of Fleck's offense.

His offense, pretty much every year at WMU and so far here, has been power running and vertical passing. He keeps the TE in to block and allow the WRs more time to get into their deep routes.

This is part of the reason why Seth Green is actually more of a WR than a TE. He's just a really big WR.

This could all be changed, PJ seems like a coach willing to adjust to his team's strengths. I think we'll find out sooner rather than later with Brevyn Spann Ford. HE is an incredible talent. Personally, because of PJ's offense in the past, I wouldn't be shocked to see the kid end up at DE. However, if he doesn't, we might see a wrinkle in PJ's offense.

I agree with your first three statements. Not so much with the last one.
His offense here isn't any different than the one he ran at WMU. He has his idea of what an offense is and so does Kirk and they really aren't going to change as they have shown over two programs. They will add some wrinkles, but I don't believe they will ever have a TE be in the top 3 or 4 in receptions, because that is not what they do or believe in.
 

I agree with your first three statements. Not so much with the last one.
His offense here isn't any different than the one he ran at WMU. He has his idea of what an offense is and so does Kirk and they really aren't going to change as they have shown over two programs. They will add some wrinkles, but I don't believe they will ever have a TE be in the top 3 or 4 in receptions, because that is not what they do or believe in.

Huh. To my knowledge they didn't run the wildcat at WMU.

Obviously the core of his offensive philosophy won't change - that would be stupid - but you can add a wrinkle to involve TEs more, split TEs out wide, actually call the plays in your book that include the TEs as an early read, etc...I believe that's the adaptation Bob is alluding to.
 




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