Mackey and Judd (and Doogie)

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Herd said:
Last year was just plain wierd if you ask me. It was like the coach was willing the team to a mediocre level in his first year. It was like he was trying to set a low bar, trying to play below what they were capable of to prove some 5 year plan level in year 1. It was like he tore it down below what it was capable of. Head scratcher for me.
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The way they finished almost made you think that.
The offense was uninspiring from a play calling standpoint.
Much of the game plan seemed to be "can we end this game sooner vs later".
PJ kept saying something to the effect that we'll only give them what they can take. (plays they can run right).

So to me it seemed like PJ was basically saying "You guys can't handle the playbook, we'll just keep running the same 2 plays over and over again".

He may have been more concerned about setting the culture than wins or losses.
 

Face The Facts said:
The way they finished almost made you think that.
The offense was uninspiring from a play calling standpoint.
Much of the game plan seemed to be "can we end this game sooner vs later".
PJ kept saying something to the effect that we'll only give them what they can take. (plays they can run right).

So to me it seemed like PJ was basically saying "You guys can't handle the playbook, we'll just keep running the same 2 plays over and over again".

He may have been more concerned about setting the culture than wins or losses.
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The starting QB (Croft) did not want to be in Flecks culture all season. He was benched/ suspended and immediately after the last game asked for a transfer.

There were likely several players that were in that category and they no longer are on the team.

Couple that with decimating injuries on the OL and defensive backfield and Tyler Johnson. That's how you end up with a terrible end to the season.

Fleck knew that the first season "year zero" would play out like that. It's part of the process of taking over a new program and transforming the culture. He said it all year to set the expectation. He did not will them to mediocrity.

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For the first time ever, I agree with you.
Herd said:
Last year was just plain wierd if you ask me. It was like the coach was willing the team to a mediocre level in his first year. It was like he was trying to set a low bar, trying to play below what they were capable of to prove some 5 year plan level in year 1. It was like he tore it down below what it was capable of. Head scratcher for me.
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Since the short tenure of Coach Claeys has come up, here's his email if you'd like to offer a note of good luck on WSU's upcoming season:

[email protected]

Dropped him a line a couple of weeks ago and got a nice reply.

I 'll be looking for some of their games over the season to see how the D looks under DC Claeys.

As for the Gophers, I see this as Year 1...so more growing pains. Just hoping to get to a bowl.
 

BilldGopher said:
Since the short tenure of Coach Claeys has come up, here's his email if you'd like to offer a note of good luck on WSU's upcoming season:

[email protected]

Dropped him a line a couple of weeks ago and got a nice reply.

I 'll be looking for some of their games over the season to see how the D looks under DC Claeys.

As for the Gophers, I see this as Year 1...so more growing pains. Just hoping to get to a bowl.
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I do not understand the fetishization of Claeys. Fleck may be a dud, Claeys definitely was. All the charisma of a pine cone. Dude was salty upon leaving too.
 


SamSquatch said:
I do not understand the fetishization of Claeys. Fleck may be a dud, Claeys definitely was. All the charisma of a pine cone. Dude was salty upon leaving too.
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I'm not sure if I've seen a saltier exist by a college or pro coach.
I'm sure there were some.
 

Face The Facts said:
The way they finished almost made you think that.
The offense was uninspiring from a play calling standpoint.
Much of the game plan seemed to be "can we end this game sooner vs later".
PJ kept saying something to the effect that we'll only give them what they can take. (plays they can run right).

So to me it seemed like PJ was basically saying "You guys can't handle the playbook, we'll just keep running the same 2 plays over and over again".

He may have been more concerned about setting the culture than wins or losses.
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The OC just recently explained that after TJ got hurt the other teams just pressed us and we couldn’t pass. The improvements in WR this year will make a big impact.


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alchemy2u said:
The OC just recently explained that after TJ got hurt the other teams just pressed us and we couldn’t pass. The improvements in WR this year will make a big impact.


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That makes sense.
 

SamSquatch said:
I do not understand the fetishization of Claeys. Fleck may be a dud, Claeys definitely was. All the charisma of a pine cone. Dude was salty upon leaving too.
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This is a really stupid take. There are plenty of very successful coaches who have no charisma - guys like Chryst, Ferentz, and Dantonio come to mind. Why you are trying to equate success and charisma is beyond me.

I would've been salty too had I gotten screwed out of a 7-figure job - not to mention getting thrown under the bus on my way out the door.
 



dpodoll68 said:
This is a really stupid take. There are plenty of very successful coaches who have no charisma - guys like Chryst, Ferentz, and Dantonio come to mind. Why you are trying to equate success and charisma is beyond me.

I would've been salty too had I gotten screwed out of a 7-figure job - not to mention getting thrown under the bus on my way out the door.
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Come on now. We have gone over this numerous times. Claeys didn’t get screwed out of the job. He was a good coordinator but wasn’t really head coach material. The boosters and fans were losing interest. Recruiting was stagnant. The AD wanted his guy, etc, etc. and on top of that he wasn’t prepared to handle the team walkout situation.


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I just don't understand how you can say that Fleck can't be expected to win and compete with what he was left and but then get mad when the media and much of the potential fanbase isn't properly excited.
 

WoodburyTim said:
I just don't understand how you can say that Fleck can't be expected to win and compete with what he was left and but then get mad when the media and much of the potential fanbase isn't properly excited.
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Only we get to beat up on PJ!!!
 

dpodoll68 said:
This is a really stupid take. There are plenty of very successful coaches who have no charisma - guys like Chryst, Ferentz, and Dantonio come to mind. Why you are trying to equate success and charisma is beyond me.

I would've been salty too had I gotten screwed out of a 7-figure job - not to mention getting thrown under the bus on my way out the door.
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Agree 100%.
 



GO4INLALALAND said:
I, personally, am the least excited this year than I can ever remember. I really don't see much reason to think the Gophers are going to be good or pull off any surprise wins. Heck, even PJ has said we are going to stink this year. I hope I am wrong, but when the coach is talking down the season, you figure it is likely going to be a long, ugly season. If that is the case, expect to get even more offended with sports talk radio in the cities when discussing the Gophers.
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GO4INLALALAND said:
Obviously PJ did not say the Gophers are going to stink this season, but he sure is heck is playing down this season. He is talking high about individual players, but as a team, he is keeping expectations low.
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Good stuff.

Big difference between what you originally wrote and and then the statement you danced into.

People need to listen through some of the rah rah/mantra stuff and listen to substance (yes, it's there if you listen). He gives a lot of info when he speaks. He's pretty clear that this team has talent but isn't there yet. BTN crew said the same thing. If you listen to the tone from last year to this year, it's significantly different.
 
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WoodburyTim said:
I just don't understand how you can say that Fleck can't be expected to win and compete with what he was left and but then get mad when the media and much of the potential fanbase isn't properly excited.
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I guess it all depends on what perspective you have.
 

dpodoll68 said:
This is a really stupid take. There are plenty of very successful coaches who have no charisma - guys like Chryst, Ferentz, and Dantonio come to mind. Why you are trying to equate success and charisma is beyond me.

I would've been salty too had I gotten screwed out of a 7-figure job - not to mention getting thrown under the bus on my way out the door.
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Belicheck, Saban those guys just ooze charisma when they take the podium. I would be frustrated too with how the administration handled it all year. How do you create a scenario where players can play on the road but not at home. Only crime Claeys committed was to be the voice of his frustrated team

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I think a big reason that Coyle decided to wait until after the bowl game to fire Claeys was that he didn't think in 100 years that the Gophers were going to beat Washington State, He figured after a loss it would be a much more popular firing with the fan base, instead it brought strong reaction from both sides.
 

alchemy2u said:
Come on now. We have gone over this numerous times. Claeys didn’t get screwed out of the job. He was a good coordinator but wasn’t really head coach material. The boosters and fans were losing interest. Recruiting was stagnant. The AD wanted his guy, etc, etc. and on top of that he wasn’t prepared to handle the team walkout situation.


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Players loved Claeys!
Claeys won 9 games!
Claeys is not head coaching material!

Um okay, whatever!
 

pharmacygopher said:
Good stuff.

Big difference between what you originally wrote and and then the statement you danced into.

People need to listen through some of the rah rah/mantra stuff and listen to substance (yes, it's there if you listen). He gives a lot of info when he speaks. He's pretty clear that this team has talent but isn't there yet. BTN crew said the same thing. If you listen to the tone from last year to this year, it's significantly different.
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You prove the point of what I was saying. I’m listening through the coach speak and what I hear is that the Gophers are going to stink. Fleck is not trying to lead on anyone into thinking that we are going to be good. What I take from that is that we are going to be bad, ie stink.

I think you should take your own advice and listen through the rah rah stuff.


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HoustonTXGopher said:
I think a big reason that Coyle decided to wait until after the bowl game to fire Claeys was that he didn't think in 100 years that the Gophers were going to beat Washington State, He figured after a loss it would be a much more popular firing with the fan base, instead it brought strong reaction from both sides.
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So you really think the AD was counting on a loss for better timing on firing Claeys? I don’t really think the AD really cared. Sure he hopped we would win, but I think it was more of finishing this season and moving on.


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GO4INLALALAND said:
I, personally, am the least excited this year than I can ever remember. I really don't see much reason to think the Gophers are going to be good or pull off any surprise wins. Heck, even PJ has said we are going to stink this year. I hope I am wrong, but when the coach is talking down the season, you figure it is likely going to be a long, ugly season. If that is the case, expect to get even more offended with sports talk radio in the cities when discussing the Gophers.
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GO4INLALALAND said:
You prove the point of what I was saying. I’m listening through the coach speak and what I hear is that the Gophers are going to stink. Fleck is not trying to lead on anyone into thinking that we are going to be good. What I take from that is that we are going to be bad, ie stink.

I think you should take your own advice and listen through the rah rah stuff.


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We need to set expectations. Please define what you mean by stink and then we can go from there.
 

alchemy2u said:
Come on now. We have gone over this numerous times. Claeys didn’t get screwed out of the job. He was a good coordinator but wasn’t really head coach material. The boosters and fans were losing interest. Recruiting was stagnant. The AD wanted his guy, etc, etc. and on top of that he wasn’t prepared to handle the team walkout situation.


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Agree completely and at least on this board it seems like this conversation around missing Claeys will live on until Fleck has the team competing again.
To me it looked like things were really trending down with Claeys (yes I know the team won 9 games). It got ugly off the field under his watch, and he either wasn’t capable or didn’t realize how the off the field stuff was playing to many people outside the program.
 

dpodoll68 said:
This is a really stupid take. There are plenty of very successful coaches who have no charisma - guys like Chryst, Ferentz, and Dantonio come to mind. Why you are trying to equate success and charisma is beyond me.

I would've been salty too had I gotten screwed out of a 7-figure job - not to mention getting thrown under the bus on my way out the door.
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Many coaches don't have "charisma" in the way you describe, but they manage their programs very well. Claeys did not.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
I think a big reason that Coyle decided to wait until after the bowl game to fire Claeys was that he didn't think in 100 years that the Gophers were going to beat Washington State, He figured after a loss it would be a much more popular firing with the fan base, instead it brought strong reaction from both sides.
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I think they would have been fine with a loss, but the reason they waited was because Fleck still wanted to coach his bowl game, so firing sooner wouldn't have worked.

Unlike many previous AD's, Coyle had wheels in motion for a significant time I believe prior to the firing and hiring.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
Players loved Claeys!
Claeys won 9 games!
Claeys is not head coaching material!

Um okay, whatever!
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Of course the players liked him, that doesn’t really matter. The players also liked Guteknust. Recruiting was dropping off and fundraising had dried up. He was not one to fire up the fan base.


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Trending down? There was one data point. Can't trend up or down on one data point.

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bemidjigopher said:
Belicheck, Saban those guys just ooze charisma when they take the podium. I would be frustrated too with how the administration handled it all year. How do you create a scenario where players can play on the road but not at home. Only crime Claeys committed was to be the voice of his frustrated team

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This may be the first time the words Belichick and charisma were used in the same sentence.
 
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alchemy2u said:
The OC just recently explained that after TJ got hurt the other teams just pressed us and we couldn’t pass. The improvements in WR this year will make a big impact.
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When complaining about how last season ended, too many people gloss over this. After TJ went down, we did not have a WR that could get open or catch a ball. I had hope that Phillip Howard could have stepped up, but he really struggled and didn't have one catch those last two games. With TJ back, Bateman, Douglas, Autman-Bell, and now Seth Green, I don't think our starting WRs from those last two games will even play much this year, let alone start.
 

GO4INLALALAND said:
You prove the point of what I was saying. I’m listening through the coach speak and what I hear is that the Gophers are going to stink. Fleck is not trying to lead on anyone into thinking that we are going to be good. What I take from that is that we are going to be bad, ie stink.

I think you should take your own advice and listen through the rah rah stuff.


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He's also said things like the team is faster and stronger than last year. He's been more positive about the QB's so far compared to last year as well. Depth is better, etc. I think it just depends on what parts you're listening and paying attention to.

I think he really doesn't know. Not sure what he's going to get out of the freshman QB's, young WR's.
 
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I think this team is less experienced but more talented.
It's a race to maturity.
 

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