Per Marcus - Former Gophers center Matz Stockman is returning to team

More than zero. That was my point.

For me personally, it's not so much the specific act of bringing him back that makes me shake my head, it's just the whole situation of asking him to leave, failing to get the guy he wanted instead, and then being unable to get anyone else such that you take back the guy you thought you didn't need in the first place.

Stop.
Show me a direct quote where Pitino asked Matz to leave. Just one will do.
Please stop sharing a narrative that has no documented proof. There is no documentation. There is only your ignorant speculation.
 

Has any coach who asked a player to transfer so he could bring in a different player, then gone on the record about asking him to leave?? Honest question. My guess is no, and if so that completely invalidates your post.
 

Is it hard to believe that one Minnesota winter wasn't enough to make Matz want to move to California?
 

If you take out the "per game" part and just make it "I'll take 10 points, 8 rebounds and 2 blocks," you might be close on the stats that he'll accumulate for the full season.

Hey, that was my line a few pages ago...
 



You're right, my bad. I posted right after I saw dh's post and didn't see yours until after I'd posted.

No problem:)

I'm not a betting man, but I'm guessing Matz doesn't score 10 points, or more, in one game this season. If he even plays 10 minutes a game, something went very wrong.
 


Has any coach who asked a player to transfer so he could bring in a different player, then gone on the record about asking him to leave?? Honest question. My guess is no, and if so that completely invalidates your post.
Why on earth would Stockman come back here if he was pushed out the door? Certainly plenty of other schools would take him for a year. If you were fired from your job, would you go back to work for that company if they offered you your job back 2 months later? I sure wouldn't. That's why it seems more like Stockman's decision to me.
 

Why on earth would Stockman come back here if he was pushed out the door? Certainly plenty of other schools would take him for a year. If you were fired from your job, would you go back to work for that company if they offered you your job back 2 months later? I sure wouldn't. That's why it seems more like Stockman's decision to me.

But actually, there is a very simple reason: he couldn't do enough school work this summer to graduate and therefore qualify as a graduate transfer (meaning he would not have to sit out).

So he would've had to sit out another year if he transferred, or unless he could qualify for a waive (maybe?). Staying here was the only chance he had to play this season (in DI ... he might've also been immediately eligible if he dropped to DII or DIII ?).

EDIT: looking at his roster webpage from last season, it appears 2017-18 was the 4th year of his five year eligibility time window. So he basically was screwed, unless he got a waiver or dropped down a division. With the Gophers not getting Geno or any other transfer, that basically saved his bacon, as far as having any chance to play this season.
 
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But actually, there is a very simple reason: he couldn't do enough school work this summer to graduate and therefore qualify as a graduate transfer (meaning he would not have to sit out).

So he would've had to sit out another year if he transferred, or unless he could qualify for a waive (maybe?). Staying here was the only chance he had to play this season (in DI ... he might've also been immediately eligible if he dropped to DII or DIII ?).

Yep, that and maybe he just wanted to stay in a familiar place. Transferring to a different school means building new relationships with new coaches, new teammates, having to learn your way around campus etc. Maybe he didn't want to do that for a third time and just wanted to stay in a place where he already knows his way around, even if they did originally give him the boot.
 

But actually, there is a very simple reason: he couldn't do enough school work this summer to graduate and therefore qualify as a graduate transfer (meaning he would not have to sit out).

So he would've had to sit out another year if he transferred, or unless he could qualify for a waive (maybe?). Staying here was the only chance he had to play this season (in DI ... he might've also been immediately eligible if he dropped to DII or DIII ?).

Which he wouldn't have, correct?
 


Why do people keep saying this? Read the thread. It's very clear what happened and isn't that surprising. Crandall was supposed to be coming so we cleared the spot. Then Crandall screwed us over. Getting Stockman back in that circumstance is a good thing.

I think that is exactly what eker means is strange. And it is. How often does that happen? I can't think of any examples. There couldn't be more than a couple. Still a good thing to get Stockman back. I think he will play more than others seem to.
 



Here's the odd thing about the supposed Stockman/Crandall situation.

Pitino had opportunities to run off under-performing players over the last few years (Gas, anyone) and did not do it. So why would he start now, and especially with a player who came to MN after playing for Pitino's father?

I'm not saying it's not possible - but it does strike me as odd.

For starters, the player has to agree to it too. When a recruit signs a scholarship agreement with a Big 10 school that scholarship is guaranteed for four years. If the coaching staff doesn't think they will get much playing time and want to open up a scholarship they can tell the player "you aren't going to get playing time here so we suggest you transfer." This is enough for most players, because most want to play, but what if the player doesn't care about playing time? Gas was still learning the game of basketball, and might have realized that he wouldn't have a ton of other options. Maybe he didn't care about playing time and getting his degree from a high quality institution was important to him and his family. It's very possible (if not likely) that Gas was made aware that he wasn't going to play much and was encouraged to transfer, but decided he didn't want to do that.

And I would have no problem with this. It's not a knock on anyone. The coaching staff is doing their job when they try to turn over the roster in ways that help the team. But it's a four year agreement in the Big 10, and if the player doesn't want to leave and is okay not getting much playing time then he should stay where he is comfortable.

I think it is viewed negatively in many cases, but it doesn't have to be. I think we ran Matz off to make room for Crandall. The timing was just too perfect. That doesn't mean it was some ugly backroom deal. My guess is Pitino brought Stockman in and said something like: "Matz, you've been working really hard for us and we appreciate it. We want to do right by you and hope you want to do right by us. You are going to be finishing up your degree here soon, and we just don't think this is going to be the right fit going forward. We have a chance to bring in a guy who can really help us, and we'd like you to grad transfer somewhere else so that we have a scholarship for this guy. We'll give you a good recommendation to any school you want to go to, and I bet there are some really good programs that will have a bigger role for you than we can offer. So what do you think?"
 

For starters, the player has to agree to it too. When a recruit signs a scholarship agreement with a Big 10 school that scholarship is guaranteed for four years. If the coaching staff doesn't think they will get much playing time and want to open up a scholarship they can tell the player "you aren't going to get playing time here so we suggest you transfer." This is enough for most players, because most want to play, but what if the player doesn't care about playing time? Gas was still learning the game of basketball, and might have realized that he wouldn't have a ton of other options. Maybe he didn't care about playing time and getting his degree from a high quality institution was important to him and his family. It's very possible (if not likely) that Gas was made aware that he wasn't going to play much and was encouraged to transfer, but decided he didn't want to do that.

And I would have no problem with this. It's not a knock on anyone. The coaching staff is doing their job when they try to turn over the roster in ways that help the team. But it's a four year agreement in the Big 10, and if the player doesn't want to leave and is okay not getting much playing time then he should stay where he is comfortable.

I think it is viewed negatively in many cases, but it doesn't have to be. I think we ran Matz off to make room for Crandall. The timing was just too perfect. That doesn't mean it was some ugly backroom deal. My guess is Pitino brought Stockman in and said something like: "Matz, you've been working really hard for us and we appreciate it. We want to do right by you and hope you want to do right by us. You are going to be finishing up your degree here soon, and we just don't think this is going to be the right fit going forward. We have a chance to bring in a guy who can really help us, and we'd like you to grad transfer somewhere else so that we have a scholarship for this guy. We'll give you a good recommendation to any school you want to go to, and I bet there are some really good programs that will have a bigger role for you than we can offer. So what do you think?"

Well written post! I think something like this is likely close to the truth.

You can still criticize Pitino though, for not closing on Geno and then failing to identify any other transfer that could help next season. I'm glad that Stockman will get to come back to the program, regardless if he doesn't see the floor. It's a fine gesture and move, given no other possibility. But it still looks like a gong show to the average person. And that falls on Pitino for not closing.
 

Stop.
Show me a direct quote where Pitino asked Matz to leave. Just one will do.
Please stop sharing a narrative that has no documented proof. There is no documentation. There is only your ignorant speculation.

You could say this about almost anything when it comes to recruiting or team matters. He's not going to talk about it, except for maybe in really vague terms, whether it is 100% true or 100% false.
 

Why on earth would Stockman come back here if he was pushed out the door? Certainly plenty of other schools would take him for a year. If you were fired from your job, would you go back to work for that company if they offered you your job back 2 months later? I sure wouldn't. That's why it seems more like Stockman's decision to me.

What if they were honest and classy about it when they asked you to leave? I don't see why everyone thinks personnel changes always have to be ugly.
 
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Well written post! I think something like this is likely close to the truth.

You can still criticize Pitino though, for not closing on Geno and then failing to identify any other transfer that could help next season. I'm glad that Stockman will get to come back to the program, regardless if he doesn't see the floor. It's a fine gesture and move, given no other possibility. But it still looks like a gong show to the average person. And that falls on Pitino for not closing.

If the story is true, then Pitino thought he had closed on Geno as much as he could. The word of the player (basically a silent verbal) is as hard of a lock as he could get. Plus, having the player know what it took to make room for him should have locked up anybody. I don’t think Geno has signed any letters with The Zags.
 

If the story is true, then Pitino thought he had closed on Geno as much as he could. The word of the player (basically a silent verbal) is as hard of a lock as he could get. Plus, having the player know what it took to make room for him should have locked up anybody. I don’t think Geno has signed any letters with The Zags.

We don't know what was said or not said, either way.

But if I was Pitino, I'd say something like "I will try to make roster moves, but only if you commit to me now that you'll come to Minnesota if we can make a scholarship available to you, and you commit to me now that you will not take any visits to any other school from this point onward". If something like that was said, then Geno is a bald-faced liar. I guess nothing you can do about that. But I'm guessing Pitino still left too much of an opening for him to take that visit to Gonzaga. In my gut, I knew as soon as they got him out to Spokane that they'd sell him. It turned out to be correct ...
 

I don’t think Geno has signed any letters with The Zags.

curious if anyone knows. could the Zags list him on their roster if he hasn't signed? thinking that might violate any rules about not referencing recruits.
 

We don't know what was said or not said, either way.

But if I was Pitino, I'd say something like "I will try to make roster moves, but only if you commit to me now that you'll come to Minnesota if we can make a scholarship available to you, and you commit to me now that you will not take any visits to any other school from this point onward". If something like that was said, then Geno is a bald-faced liar. I guess nothing you can do about that. But I'm guessing Pitino still left too much of an opening for him to take that visit to Gonzaga. In my gut, I knew as soon as they got him out to Spokane that they'd sell him. It turned out to be correct ...
He had told multiple former teammates at UND that he would be going to Minnesota.
 

curious if anyone knows. could the Zags list him on their roster if he hasn't signed? thinking that might violate any rules about not referencing recruits.

Doesn’t he just need to enroll? Grad transfers are not the typical recruit.



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There is rarely anything “normal” when it comes to Gopher hoops. And if at anytime things seem normal...be afraid.
The Matz saga, yawn.


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Doesn’t he just need to enroll? Grad transfers are not the typical recruit.



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I don't think enrolling is enough. You have to be accepted and actually attend a class.
 

Perhaps the argument is that they aren't listing him on any official rosters, as the athletics webpage is just informational and not official?
 




Official website, of course. That just means GopherSports.com is run by the dept, as opposed to say gopherhole.com

But that doesn’t mean the roster posted on gopersports.com is anything more than informative, to my naive way of looking at it. If there is a rule or link saying otherwise, I’m happy to admit that I’m wrong!
 




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