"This is not a rebuilding year": Frost

Frost: No excuses, win, win now, facts, humble, trustworthy, tough
Fleck: year zero, control expectations, 5 year plan, elite, edgy, wants spotlight on him

Which guy would you rather play for? That’s an easy one for me.

Nebraska went 4-8 last year. Frost better have an ace up his sleeve and know they're going to be a lot better or he's going to lose the players and fans. If PJ came in and said we were going to win now and we had a season like last year, we would've turned away so quickly.
 

This thread is missing an article. Or at least a link to a few Frost quotes.
 

Frost: No excuses, win, win now, facts, humble, trustworthy, tough
Fleck: year zero, control expectations, 5 year plan, elite, edgy, wants spotlight on him

Which guy would you rather play for? That’s an easy one for me.

but, but, which one coaches NDSU?...
 

We're not allowed to talk about conference rivals? Division rivals? Teams that we'll be playing this year?

Oh, I did not realize that was the purpose of the OP. I thought it was solely a way to start a(nother) thread to criticize the current coaching staff, but guess not. Carry on.
 

I suspect Fleck will be able to turn around our 9 win season this year. I understand the need for Year Zero.
 


I'm kinda lost on the whole "PJ talking down expectations" or whatever people think it is.... i'm not sure a handful of quotes and people going crazy over them are even a thing....
 

Nebraska is about to join Wisconsin as King of the BIG west, it's only a matter of time. I can only hope our Gophers can be a part of that royalty every few years.
 

Frost is their Harbough, they'll give him every chance in the world, but like with Jim at Michigan this is Nebraska Waterloo, if they can't recapture glory days with one of there good ole boys, theyll probably stay in Bo Pelini eight, nine win purgatory. Should have kept Solich.

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And like Harbough, he will be relegated to 3rd place in the West.


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Nebraska is about to join Wisconsin as King of the BIG west, it's only a matter of time. I can only hope our Gophers can be a part of that royalty every few years.

It has been a matter of time since they joined....
 



"This is not a rebuilding year": Frost

To pretend the two programs are even comparable from a starting spot is laughable.

Nebraska's last four recruiting classes under Riley ranked:
23
26
30
35

From that you would expect near top 25 results


Minnesota's last four recruiting classes before Fleck:
46
63
57
67


Off the field:
Frost is taking over a clean program with little off the field issues.
Fleck took over a program with massive negative publicity.

Fleck took over a 9 win team that had been to multiple bowl games in recent years.

Frost inherits a team that won only four or five games, and had some of their worst losses in program history.




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Quote Originally Posted by Herd

Frost: No excuses, win, win now, facts, humble, trustworthy, tough
Fleck: year zero, control expectations, 5 year plan, elite, edgy, wants spotlight on him

Which guy would you rather play for? That’s an easy one for me.

This is where you started to lose me.

I was lost much earlier, after reading this: "Originally Posted by Herd".
 
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"Fleck took over a 9 win team that had been to multiple bowl games in recent years." I am so tired of hearing this argument because the logic is flawed.
Success one year does not guarantee similar success next year just like mutual fund returns from last year do not guarantee similar returns this year. By this logic, Michigan State should have fired their coach in 2016 because he took a 10-2 squad from 2015 and went 3-9 in 2016.
 

"Fleck took over a 9 win team that had been to multiple bowl games in recent years." I am so tired of hearing this argument because the logic is flawed.
Success one year does not guarantee similar success next year just like mutual fund returns from last year do not guarantee similar returns this year. By this logic, Michigan State should have fired their coach in 2016 because he took a 10-2 squad from 2015 and went 3-9 in 2016.

You're comparing College Football seasons to mutual funds? Talked about "flawed logic"..

MSU would have fired D'Antonio if he had a history of losing seasons, not just the one. His teams had gone 11-2, 11-3, 7-6, 13-1, 11-2, 12-2, 3-9 and 10-3 last year.

Those previous years were taken into account when they decided not to fire him. As they always should be.
 



Fleck took over a 9 win team that had been to multiple bowl games in recent years.

Frost inherits a team that won only four or five games, and had some of their worst losses in program history.




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If you're going to talk about the 9 wins as if that was a documentary displaying a successful Gopher Football Program for years to come, you must also provide the detail as to why the previous regime ended and why a fresh new hire was brought in with no warranted ties to the previous coaching staff.

At some point you need to tell the whole story and include those details, or at least also explain your opinion on why the coaching change happened.

If you want to conveniently just talk about the successes of the previous program without detailing the issues that cost coaches their jobs, then that's your prerogative, but it writes and incomplete story in which it makes no sense to hire Fleck or any other coach and also by your same measure, it would make nearly any other new head coach a failure despite what they did with a roster that was turning over some veteran players to players who had not started previously.
 

If you're going to talk about the 9 wins as if that was a documentary displaying a successful Gopher Football Program for years to come, you must also provide the detail as to why the previous regime ended and why a fresh new hire was brought in with no warranted ties to the previous coaching staff.

At some point you need to tell the whole story and include those details, or at least also explain your opinion on why the coaching change happened.

If you want to conveniently just talk about the successes of the previous program without detailing the issues that cost coaches their jobs, then that's your prerogative, but it writes and incomplete story in which it makes no sense to hire Fleck or any other coach and also by your same measure, it would make nearly any other new head coach a failure despite what they did with a roster that was turning over some veteran players to players who had not started previously.

Well said Face the Facts. Last year’s lack of QB talent could also be a factor in both team’s drop off.
How much longer will we have to hear the, “but the 2016 won 9 games”?
 

I mean Frost did more at UCF than PJ did at Western and in a better conference to Boot. The AAC deserves more respect. UCF, USF, Temple, Houston, Memphis and Navy have had some nice teams in the last few years. Would like to see gophs play some of these teams, too bad the Navy game got cancelled.

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Ummm....frost did it in the most fertile grounds for football talent in the US.

Fleck did it in Kalamazoo MI...good lord
 

Well said Face the Facts. Last year’s lack of QB talent could also be a factor in both team’s drop off.
How much longer will we have to hear the, “but the 2016 won 9 games”?

Ya...come on Reusse! #but9wins

2017 was set up for disaster from the start.
 

Really, do we have to get into the PJ bashing in every thread. At least all of you haters will be gone soon when your obsession with PJ won’t allow you to follow a successful team at the U.

Back on topic... Frost is really setting himself up for criticism by raising expectations so quickly. He can’t replace all of the players overnight. He reminds me of Brew...


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Play for? This season? Probably Frost. It would be hard to be a senior in particular and get the vibe your coach sees this as a rebuilding year. As a fan of an average program who probably needs some expectation management? Fleck.

It's a little funny that you cite Frost as being humble while he touts a faux "national championship" from last year and apparently (used to have) a box of rings from it. While he seems to think he can magically flip the switch on a team that a really respected coach (Mike Riley) struggled to win with.

Meanwhile PJF goes out of his way to bring us along slowly, piece-by-piece, and he's supposedly not. PJF's saying a lot of the same brick-by-brick sort of things ol' Country Jer used to say, just in a different vernacular and tone.

Nothing in your second paragraph is factual at all. He doesn't claim a national championship last year, in fact, the opposite - https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...4/scott-frost-ucf-national-championship-claim

And is also repeatedly preaching patience, knowing he can not fix their problems overnight, or even in a season. Much like Fleck, points to next year as the turning point.
 

Ummm....frost did it in the most fertile grounds for football talent in the US.

Fleck did it in Kalamazoo MI...good lord
Cuz those wins over Illinois and NW were so impressive said no one ever

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Well said Face the Facts. Last year’s lack of QB talent could also be a factor in both team’s drop off.
How much longer will we have to hear the, “but the 2016 won 9 games”?

Probably until the new guy tops that number. It is amazing to me that after Leidner sustained almost constant criticism on this board (including during the 9 win season), some now act like Claeys won the lottery by inheriting a superstar quarterback in Mitch Leidner. Rhoda's numbers during 2017 weren't that different than Leidner's in 2016.
 

Probably until the new guy tops that number. It is amazing to me that after Leidner sustained almost constant criticism on this board (including during the 9 win season), some now act like Claeys won the lottery by inheriting a superstar quarterback in Mitch Leidner. Rhoda's numbers during 2017 weren't that different than Leidner's in 2016.

I looked at the combined numbers of Croft and Rhoda's compared to Leidner's, and they are close until it comes to TD's. Largely on the rushing TD's, but passing numbers are "close".

I think the criticism of Leidner was fair if you are comparing him to top Big 10 QB's, which is what we were hopeful he wasn't.
Turns out he was probably average Big Ten QB at his best.
Croft and Rhoda were probably similar but lacked the experience, but if given time and patiences, that was probably their ceiling.

If and when Fleck beats a top 25 program or beats WI, the 9 win talk can start to go away.
So far what we have with Fleck is a 5-7 coach who appears to be running a very clean program, with excellent off the field character, and record high GPA's.
So from an image standpoint, the main criticism of the U's football team is off of the players and on the coach for being too: self-absorbed, too salesy, too much of a BS'er, too talkative, etc.
As an AD or President, that's where I want the criticism of the program falling. Directly on the coach.
 

Biggest issue for me is I'm waiting to feel good about guys on this team that are Fleck guys. For as young as we are, the guys I feel good about are Martin, Barber, Coughlin, Cashman, Winfield, Tyler Johnson, Rodney Smith, Brooks (when healthy) who are here and buying in, but not Fleck recruits. Hopefully by the end of this season I'll feel that confident in 6-10 of the guys Fleck brought in.
 

Cuz those wins over Illinois and NW were so impressive said no one ever

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Yeah, Fleck's WMU team played like a top notch MAC team. So we gave him millions. Jerry Kill almost won the west with his MAC players.
 

Yeah, Fleck's WMU team played like a top notch MAC team. So we gave him millions. Jerry Kill almost won the west with his MAC players.

How about Matt Campbell at Iowa State? Same dismissive attitude?

I love the idea of Big Ten teams calling up successful MAC coaches, myself.
 


I agree with "Face" on this point - if Fleck wins at MN, the questions go away.

Fans want to win, and they will accept almost anything to be associated with a winning team. I've said from the start that Fleck's personality doesn't work for me - but I will live with it if the team wins. Other people have questions - as yet unanswered - about Fleck and his staff from a coaching standpoint (X's & O's), and recruiting.

for the 2018 season, qualifying for a bowl game will help to answer some - if not all - of the questions.

But, when a new coach - any coach - comes in talking about playing for championships, at some point he has to - at the very least - deliver a team that is capable of contending for championships.

For Fleck and the Gophers, I would say that means some type of progression. 6-7 wins this year; 7-8 wins in 2019; 8-9 wins in 2020; 9-10 wins in 2021 and so forth. I don't expect miracles, but I would like to see progress.

On the other hand, if it's 2020, and the team is still struggling to qualify for a low-tier bowl game, and they're playing before 35,000 fans - then it's going to get VERY interesting.
 


I think Fleck will flip the program around quickly at some point. He tore down the whole old program and is starting from scratch. Not my preferred method, but he is the one making the big money. I may make snarky comments about what he did with a 9 win team, but I understand it may as well have been winless using his method. He better damn well stick around after having put us through this. He could end up being a coaching legend.
 

I agree with "Face" on this point - if Fleck wins at MN, the questions go away.

Fans want to win, and they will accept almost anything to be associated with a winning team. I've said from the start that Fleck's personality doesn't work for me - but I will live with it if the team wins. Other people have questions - as yet unanswered - about Fleck and his staff from a coaching standpoint (X's & O's), and recruiting.

for the 2018 season, qualifying for a bowl game will help to answer some - if not all - of the questions.

But, when a new coach - any coach - comes in talking about playing for championships, at some point he has to - at the very least - deliver a team that is capable of contending for championships.

For Fleck and the Gophers, I would say that means some type of progression. 6-7 wins this year; 7-8 wins in 2019; 8-9 wins in 2020; 9-10 wins in 2021 and so forth. I don't expect miracles, but I would like to see progress.

On the other hand, if it's 2020, and the team is still struggling to qualify for a low-tier bowl game, and they're playing before 35,000 fans - then it's going to get VERY interesting.

With due respect, ftf was saying a signature win changes the narrative, not overall wins. Big difference, and I'm not sure it does if it comes in a 5-6 win season. Also, I would accelerate your win total by a year.
 




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