More Info on Urban Meyers

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MRJ said:
Just so we're all clear of where we're at.

Meyer fires Zach Smith one day before Big 10 media days. Then during the actual media day press conference, he states he didn't know anything about the 2015 incident and that he doesn't know why anybody would "make something like that up."

Then Brett McMurphy writes/posts a scathing expose that details Zach Smith's problems, complete with text messages and statements from Courtney Smith.

A few hours later, Ohio State freaks and places Meyer on administrative leave.

A day later, Meyer cops to knowledge of the 2015 incident and claims the press conference was all one big whoopsie (because he wasn't ready for questions or something).

In other words, we know at least one time in this saga that Meyer has admittedly and definitively lied, but claims it really wasn't a lie because, again, whoopsie.

Other than that, nobody has any idea of where things really are at.

Am I missing anything?
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Pretty much covers it. How he "forgot" about the 2015 incident after firing the guy a few days earlier for the latest in year's long series of completely related domestic incidents is extremely hard to believe.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Pretty much covers it. How he "forgot" about the 2015 incident after firing the guy a few days earlier for the latest in year's long series of completely related domestic incidents is extremely hard to believe.
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Agree. Not sure how you either "forget" or aren't prepared to answer questions regarding a coach you just fired. Guess I'm just silly that way.
 

MRJ said:
Agree. Not sure how you either "forget" or aren't prepared to answer questions regarding a coach you just fired. Guess I'm just silly that way.
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Why is he obligated to give truthful answers to the press?

Our coach can’t even be relied on to be truthful about scholarships numbers, much less anything else.

He wasn’t under oath at his press conference. IF he did report, that changes everything.
 

It’s looking more like Urban feels he has a strong leg to stand on, both he and Smith .allege the AD was informed, there are multiple rumors/reports of the accuser possibly being cuckoo (not substantiated), and he’s still employed as of tonight.

If this thing falls apart the haters and press

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1. He's not. But he got caught red handed. Sucks for him, but too bad. You get called out when you lie, whether to the media or otherwise as a multi-million head football coach.

2. This has nothing to do with Fleck, but your disdain for him is duly noted.

3. If he's telling the truth, you're correct. If not, he's in a heap of trouble. Frankly, we don't know either way.
Pompous Elitist said:
Why is he obligated to give truthful answers to the press?

Our coach can’t even be relied on to be truthful about scholarships numbers, much less anything else.

He wasn’t under oath at his press conference. IF he did report, that changes everything.
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Sent from my SM-J327V using Tapatalk
 


MRJ said:
1. He's not. But he got caught red handed. Sucks for him, but too bad. You get called out when you lie, whether to the media or otherwise as a multi-million head football coach.

2. This has nothing to do with Fleck, but your disdain for him is duly noted.

3. If he's telling the truth, you're correct. If not, he's in a heap of trouble. Frankly, we don't know either way.

Sent from my SM-J327V using Tapatalk
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I agree with all of that. In fact 1 relates to 2, doesn’t it.
 


Its not worth another thread. We already have two. Im curious:

What do you all think will happen? Will he get fired? Suspended? Be coach game one?
 

West Fargo Gopher Fan said:
Its not worth another thread. We already have two. Im curious:

What do you all think will happen? Will he get fired? Suspended? Be coach game one?
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The longer this goes the better it looks for him. Too many unknowns. Does Title IX really apply? Did the AD know, or not? Did he send it up to the President’s office? Did they investigate and conclude there was less than clear and compelling evidence of abuse? Were the police in communication with Ohio State and share their findings and assessment? Is the wife as unstable as the rumors allege? Is OSU more concerned about optics and PR? Do they feel like they can defend Urban without bringing down Pitchfork Nation and the Title IX police?

All these things and others I’m sure I’m forgetting factor into it. So many people have already carved out a corner on this they’re too invested to admit there is possibly some gray. Those that think he’s a fraud and cheat will obviously sneer at his statement today. Those that always believe accusers, without reservation, will obviously feel like Zach and Urban are terrible humans no matter what can be proven.
 



West Fargo Gopher Fan said:
Its not worth another thread. We already have two. Im curious:

What do you all think will happen? Will he get fired? Suspended? Be coach game one?
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He will come out clean (by saying he feels so bad about what he did and yada, yada, yada), Smith falls on the axe (as he already has for being an abuser), the AD/Univ say they knew (regardless of if they did) because this went to police and was investigated (so it's not like we're breaking new territory). He will be verbally reprimanded but not fired or suspended and will coach game 1. That's just my prediction based on no additional information than what is out there.
 

From a McMurphy tweet:

On Thursday, Ohio State’s Board of Trustees formed a special, independent board working group related to the investigation involving Urban Meyer that was announced on Wednesday.

The group includes current trustees Alex Fischer, Janet Porter and Alex Shumate. Also on the panel are former Ohio House Speaker Jo Ann Davidson, former acting U.S. Deputy Attorney General Craig Morford and former U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Ohio Carter Stewart.

The special working group will direct the work of the investigative team and be available to provide consultation and advice and assist with communication to the full board on the matter.

This was the school’s latest update concerning Meyer’s future since my initial report Wednesday.

Does an independent board help or hurt Meyer’s chances to remain Ohio State’s coach?

I contacted about two dozen current FBS athletic directors, asking for their opinion on the situation at Ohio State. Here are some of the responses. All of the ADs were told they would not be identified.

AD 1: “In today’s landscape, the (Ohio State) president is scared ****less. The presidents and ADs were fired at Penn State and Baylor. When the president decides this starts going downhill and lies can be proven, then everyone will run for the hills. They can’t let it get out of hand because then you don’t know where it goes. If Ohio State can fire Woody Hayes and Jim Tressel, it can fire Urban Meyer.”

AD 2: “I’m sure they’d love to keep him, but they have to first protect the university.”

AD 3: “It looks like a smart move in this case to provide a layer of objectivity and separation regardless of the outcome.”

AD 4: “No, there’s no way you can keep him. Believe me, they’re trying to see how far and wide people knew – who knew what and when did they know. If they keep him, the onslaught will never end.”

AD 5: “I think they will keep him if they can’t 100 percent fire with cause, because they don’t want to pay him.”

AD 6: “I think they are trying to get a clear understanding of all the facts before determining the next steps.”

AD 7: “There are many considerations/consequences and possible legal challenges to various aspects of the decision they could make. They will want to know all of that before conclusion. Ione would have to believe their goal is total integrity/credibility in final analysis, not popularity. They will want to stand strong behind whatever decision they reach.”

AD 8: “I think they want to cover for whatever decision they come up with. The three board members and three outsiders gives good balance and is a defensible position on the outcome.”

AD 9: “I believe they are trying to get to an objective truth and set of facts. It will take quite a bit of time and discovery (phone records, emails, documents from lots of people and sources etc.) to get to a point that he institution and board feels that they have a case for a solid and defensible decision (or grounds for defense from the counter suit if they fire him) either way.”

AD 10: “Ohio State can’t afford to bring him back and then a year later something comes out. You did the first story, by now there’s 100 reporters trying to find anything new. When you have that many people looking they’re going to dig and dig and when you did that much, you’re going to find dirt. Nobody’s perfect.”

AD 11: “I think they are handling exactly like they should with an independent group. Investigation has to be from outside athletics, trustees and board. Good job putting this group together.”

AD 12: “This decision (on Meyer’s future) will be a true measure on the morality of college football in today’s landscape. That’s the reality. If he remains their coach, we’ve all lost our minds.”

AD 13: “This is obviously big and three insiders and three respected outsiders will give the investigation credence. I think they are just looking to do it right.”

AD 14: “You have to uncover everything based on how they’ve handled it so far, so the assistant’s (jobs) also could be at risk if they knew about it.”

AD 15: “Separately, I imagine there is talk of settlement at some level – but I’d be surprised if Urban gives in anytime soon.”

AD 16: “This sets up as ‘CYA’ if they want to keep him. But they are smart to have someone else adjudicate this given how Baylor and Penn State initially handled their cases (which resulted in the presidents and athletic directors getting fired).”
 

The above sounds like he's trying to fan the flames tbh. Some of those are very inflammatory and really have no backing such as the measure that how this is handled is a measure of morality? really? because he lied to the media?
 

I am going slightly off topic here on my OP ramble.

The climate of the country today of going full throttle with "MeToo" extremism are going to claim many people who are painted with a big brush of fault regardless of facts. There are folks whose decades of misdeeds and abuse of power are finally catching up with them. To them, I say it is about time.

Domestic violence cannot and should not be tolerated. There are many other things that should not be tolerated involving college athletics.

This case at tOSU illustrates the increasingly very tough environment by which university presidents, ADs, and coaches of universities operate. One public indescretion can get a bunch of people to lose their jobs. One misstatement on public media can bring a whole lot of scrutiny. They are increasingly under a very sharp radar.

People are not perfect. University presidents, ADs, and coaches should get fired if there is a deliberate total failure to ethically carry out their duties to protect players, students, and those in their community of staff, coaches, spouses, etc... from any form of abuse. They should not get fired by what amounts to public lynching by the media without objective facts. This has to be a very paralyzing environment by which school administrator have to operate on.

People make misstatements, panic ensue, and then overreact which brings more problems. Why don't people nowadays take time to breathe, get all the facts together, and then act on the basis of the truth?

I am not surprise President Eric Kaler decided to step down. He has done a lot of great things for the University and athletics. But, people will remember him most for the mishandling of the sex scandal.

It is quite amazing that in the current national climate you can claim "fake news" and get away without any impunity. On the other hand, you can potentially get fired by false or unsubstantiated accusations under the limelight of social media and the press.
 
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Pompous Elitist said:
AD 5: “I think they will keep him if they can’t 100 percent fire with cause, because they don’t want to pay him.”
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Winner.

Full stop.


The rest is just trashy, tabloid stuff, McMurphy milking this for every last click he can.
 

I’m not saying it’s the case here, but the failure of the police to arrest or charge Smith and the failure of OSU to remove him until this went public (presumably due to optics as Hungan stated) seems to lend at least a small bit of credibility to the possibility of there having been a very toxic relationship and perhaps some bad actors on both sides. It’s a little sad this will now play out in the public sphere instead of behind closed doors.

The following will probably be interpreted as misogynistic by the humorless segment of our society while my very feminist wife found it hilarious (and partially true according to her). Advice for young men. Again, this is obviously a comedy bit.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vwbKYcBdVyk" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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Pompous Elitist said:
I’m not saying it’s the case here, but the failure of the police to arrest or charge Smith and the failure of OSU to remove him until this went public (presumably due to optics as Hungan stated) seems to lend at least a small bit of credibility to the possibility of there having been a very toxic relationship and perhaps some bad actors on both sides. It’s a little sad this will now play out in the public sphere instead of behind closed doors.

The following will probably be interpreted as misogynistic by the humorless segment of our society while my very feminist wife found it hilarious (and partially true according to her). Advice for young men. Again, this is obviously a comedy bit.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vwbKYcBdVyk" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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ROTFLMAO Pompous! This is the best gem on Gopherhole ever! Where was this chart when I was in college?
 

After reading the ESPN article, here's what seems to jump out.

Apparently Meyer and Smith are now both claiming that the AD and the police were informed after the 2015 incident.

So, that initially looks better for Meyer - BUT - if that is the case, then why did Meyer wait till now to fire Smith. What changed from 2015 to 2018 - other than the fact that a lot of this information became public or was about to become public.

It smells like a case of "we don't have to do anything about this as long as we can keep it a secret."

But, if Meyer and Smith both say they told the AD, then this could get real ugly for OSU. It becomes a question of how much s**t the President and Regents want to deal with - and at what point they say "bleep it" and decide to clean house.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
After reading the ESPN article, here's what seems to jump out.

Apparently Meyer and Smith are now both claiming that the AD and the police were informed after the 2015 incident.

So, that initially looks better for Meyer - BUT - if that is the case, then why did Meyer wait till now to fire Smith. What changed from 2015 to 2018 - other than the fact that a lot of this information became public or was about to become public.

It smells like a case of "we don't have to do anything about this as long as we can keep it a secret."

But, if Meyer and Smith both say they told the AD, then this could get real ugly for OSU. It becomes a question of how much s**t the President and Regents want to deal with - and at what point they say "bleep it" and decide to clean house.
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Yes, if the allegations are true. Frankly, I’m not sure. There was a text exchange McMurphy posted that made Zach look very, very bad but again what did the police and the school know?

And, I hate to say it (again) but we still don’t know if the ex-wife is shoveling dirt after the conclusion of a messy codependent relationship. That picture of her cut hand didn’t look like any blood or wound I’ve ever seen. I’m not saying it was ketchup, but I’m not saying it wasn’t.

This is a bizarre story all around.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Yes, if the allegations are true. Frankly, I’m not sure. There was a text exchange McMurphy posted that made Zach look very, very bad but again what did the police and the school know?

And, I hate to say it (again) but we still don’t know if the ex-wife is shoveling dirt after the conclusion of a messy codependent relationship. That picture of her cut hand didn’t look like any blood or wound I’ve ever seen. I’m not saying it was ketchup, but I’m not saying it wasn’t.

This is a bizarre story all around.
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Yeah, the ex-wife may not be 100% blameless in this, and I understand there are always at least 2 sides to a story - but given the times we live in, can a major institution like OSU really take the position that they believe an accused abuser and his enablers over the word of an alleged battered wife? the me too movement would make OSU public enemy #1. think that might impact OSU fund-raising?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Yes, if the allegations are true. Frankly, I’m not sure. There was a text exchange McMurphy posted that made Zach look very, very bad but again what did the police and the school know?

And, I hate to say it (again) but we still don’t know if the ex-wife is shoveling dirt after the conclusion of a messy codependent relationship. That picture of her cut hand didn’t look like any blood or wound I’ve ever seen. I’m not saying it was ketchup, but I’m not saying it wasn’t.

This is a bizarre story all around.
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Yeah, from the beginning something felt off to me...more so after Meter released his statement. I'm not sure that or the ESPN interview helped either of them, given the release of that text right after.
 

Judge for yourself. 7:28. I’m not saying Zach is innocent as he seems like a piece of work but there are many inconsistencies in this saga.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Q3qX5NpgGDA?start=448" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

PMWinSTP said:
Yeah, from the beginning something felt off to me...more so after Meter released his statement. I'm not sure that or the ESPN interview helped either of them, given the release of that text right after.
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Meyer obviously feels like he has a strong hand. It may come out others will take the fall, or all of them, or none of them. Too early to say and this story seems to be unfolding in real time. The texts are certainly a piece of evidence but I’m not sure it’s as ironclad of evidence as it may seem. Zach certainly will need to respond to that and provide some context or yeah, looks pretty bad.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Meyer obviously feels like he has a strong hand. It may come out others will take the fall, or all of them, or none of them. Too early to say and this story seems to be unfolding in real time. The texts are certainly a piece of evidence but I’m not sure it’s as ironclad of evidence as it may seem. Zach certainly will need to respond to that and provide some context or yeah, looks pretty bad.
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Meyer has a very large ego, so I would expect he would feel that way.

To this day, Briles sees himself as pretty much blameless in that mess...
 

PMWinSTP said:
Meyer has a very large ego, so I would expect he would feel that way.

To this day, Briles sees himself as pretty much blameless in that mess...
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What does Briles have to do with Meyer?
 


PMWinSTP said:
Big ego Teflon type HC.
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The blue ribbon committee will have easy access to check on whether his statements were factual. If the school covered up or collided with the police to cover up abuse by Mr. Smith then he’ll be gone.

The committee may move to dismiss him simply because it’s currently a PR nightmare and let’s face it, what percent of the public has any interest in the facts - not many. Look at this board during the Gopher 10 saga, and these are purported fans of the team. Of course, without a solid basis for firing for cause OSU could be out 40 million which is significant even for OSU.

Based on the facts we know the simplest scenario seems to be there was never an arrest of Smith until 2018, the powers that be had reason to believe the situation was more complex than a generic angry man beats wife, and it isn’t a violation of his contract to keep a man on staff that had only unsubstantiated allegations brought against him. I haven’t heard any informed opinions how Title IX applies here.
 

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