Fleck won’t measure his football team’s 2018 season by how many games the Gophers win

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fraternity2017 said:
Never like it when PJ is very obviously trying to manage expectations. I'm fine though. I just hope for progress this year and next and hopefully a great year in year 4 with a senior quarterback and all PJ's guys are juniors and seniors. Then we'll have Annexstad as a red shirt senior the next year and we'll be off to the races.
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If Annexstad red shirts a year then he'll be a red shirt sophomore in year 4 and a junior in year 5.


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GO4INLALALAND said:
I don't want this to devolve into a Claeys v. Fleck argument, but I just wonder how much patience there would be for Claeys if he had a season like last season and was talking down this season, even after coming off a 9 win season? I think people would be calling for his head. I absolutely think Fleck wants to win - anyone who thinks differently is out of his or her mind - I am just really concerned about Fleck's coaching ability. After seeing some poor coaching decisions last year, I just don't know he has the chops to cut it. I'll admit that Fleck rubs me the wrong way, but I still want him to succeed. However, I am not just going to blindly cheer the guy on because he is the Gophers FB coach. He has to prove to me that he can win at this level and right now I don't see it. Granted, you have to give the guy some time, but if there are not some very visible improvements this year, I think it will be time to panic. People will jump off the bandwagon in droves if we have another season like last season, IMO.
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He obviously did something right at WMU. Several D1 coaches like Urban Meyer coached in the MAC (Bowling Green).

It is only fair to give him three-four years. Alvarez did the turn-around in four years as Wiscy.

He rubs some people with his loopy HPYRR gimmick. Who cares as long as he wins. Jeff Brohm would have appealed to MN sensibilities more. But, I can see Brohm bolting to the SEC given a chance.
 

Meh...I suspect elite mediocrity over the next couple years until our 3[emoji294] Holiday Inn is fully built. [emoji41]
 

hungan1 said:
He obviously did something right at WMU. Several D1 coaches like Urban Meyer coached in the MAC (Bowling Green).

It is only fair to give him three-four years. Alvarez did the turn-around in four years as Wiscy.

He rubs some people with his loopy HPYRR gimmick. Who cares as long as he wins. Jeff Brohm would have appealed to MN sensibilities more. But, I can see Brohm bolting to the SEC given a chance.
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Brohm and his family bleed Louisville Red - when (not if) Petrino screws up again, and I'd bet money on Brohm jumping there without batting an eye.
 

Thomasthetank said:
I'm with pj. To be honest, I'm not expecting much this year. Inexperience in important areas like qb, DL, DB, WR, TE. I wont be judging the team on wins either but more the week to week improvement.

2019....now that's when we will see what pj is made of when we dont lose many seniors and have alot of experience back on both lines and WR and QB
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"Week to week improvement" would be a nice change from the digression we saw during last season.
 


BleedGopher said:
per Greder:

P.J. Fleck won’t measure his football team’s 2018 season by how many games the Gophers win.

“Numbers will always get stale,” Fleck said. “If we win so many games some day, that will be the expectation.”

Speaking at the Gophers’ local media day Tuesday, Fleck used the last of his four seasons at Western Michigan to explain his thinking. After going 1-11 in Fleck’s first season in 2013, the Broncos won 13 games and earned a berth in the Cotton Bowl against Wisconsin.

“Here we are go from being 1-11 to 11-0 and people are saying, ‘If we lose this game, it’s all for naught,’ ” Fleck said. “I’m looking at them like, ‘You know we won 11 games so far’ We remember three years ago and where we were at?’

“I understand the expectation, but holy cow that changed quickly, didn’t it?”

Regarding his second Gophers team, which starts its season Aug. 30 with a 6 p.m. kickoff against New Mexico State, Fleck said, “The number (of wins) doesn’t necessarily mean that much to me. … Somebody else can judge the number. That is never going to be something that I look at to whether that was a success or not.”

https://www.twincities.com/2018/07/...ng-to-shock-some-people-carter-coughlin-says/

Go Gophers!!
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Oh you people......Put the shoe on the other foot for a second....If the Gophers win 9 games and 2 of those wins are complete and total flukes, do you think PJ will be happy with the progress of the team? I completely agree with Fleck and at no time does he say he doesnt care about winning or he is not trying to win. We are going to lose some games this year, but we can only know that the process is working by the way we measure our wins and losses.

Chill out and enjoy the process!
 

This is another case where Fleck - in my opinion - doesn't always express himself very clearly.

Imagine he said this:

"I want to win as many games as we possibly can - but wins and losses are only one way to evaluate a season. Yes, wins are important, but I will also be looking at other factors as I assess whether the season is successful. If you only focus on wins and losses, you're not getting the total picture of the team."

If he said that, I suspect this thread doesn't even exist. Whether it's deliberate or not, Fleck seems to have a way of phrasing things that leaves his comments open to different interpretations.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
This is another case where Fleck - in my opinion - doesn't always express himself very clearly.

Imagine he said this:

"I want to win as many games as we possibly can - but wins and losses are only one way to evaluate a season. Yes, wins are important, but I will also be looking at other factors as I assess whether the season is successful. If you only focus on wins and losses, you're not getting the total picture of the team."

If he said that, I suspect this thread doesn't even exist. Whether it's deliberate or not, Fleck seems to have a way of phrasing things that leaves his comments open to different interpretations.
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This is a very good point, and I think correct.
 



hungan1 said:
He obviously did something right at WMU. Several D1 coaches like Urban Meyer coached in the MAC (Bowling Green).

It is only fair to give him three-four years. Alvarez did the turn-around in four years as Wiscy.

He rubs some people with his loopy HPYRR gimmick. Who cares as long as he wins. Jeff Brohm would have appealed to MN sensibilities more. But, I can see Brohm bolting to the SEC given a chance.
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The Badger turnaround was when you could toss out 31 scholarship players without an NCAA penalty. It's apples and oranges comparing 1991 to 2018.
 

Hockeytown said:
The Badger turnaround was when you could toss out 31 scholarship players without an NCAA penalty. It's apples and oranges comparing 1991 to 2018.
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Yes.

But the question is: do you believe the NCAA CFB environment now is so “restrictive” that it’s not possible to achieve a Wisconsin level turnaround anymore? And why not?

It should be noted that Alvarez had three different waves of ups and downs, and was somewhat at the end on his third successful “rebuild” in Madison at the end of his tenure in the mid 2000’s.

I think Wisconsin will always be the perfect example for what “should” be possible at the U (of Minn). But another good example though would be Washington. Huge public medical research school right within an urban setting and all the “distractions” that go with that (pro sports among them).

It can be done! Granted, in Wash case it required Oregon to drop down a peg. But if it requires Wisc to drop down in order for us to come up, then bring it on!
 
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short ornery norwegian said:
This is another case where Fleck - in my opinion - doesn't always express himself very clearly.

Imagine he said this:

"I want to win as many games as we possibly can - but wins and losses are only one way to evaluate a season. Yes, wins are important, but I will also be looking at other factors as I assess whether the season is successful. If you only focus on wins and losses, you're not getting the total picture of the team."

If he said that, I suspect this thread doesn't even exist. Whether it's deliberate or not, Fleck seems to have a way of phrasing things that leaves his comments open to different interpretations.
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You may be onto something there. You also have to factor in that the crowd that just doesn't like Fleck are going to latch onto any gray area and use it to prove that he doesn't want to win. Kill lowered expectations for years but in general people liked him and bought his schtick so they gave him a pass. Fleck is far more polarizing so he doesn't get the same leeway with a lot of fans.

If there is anyone that truly believes a power 5 head coach doesn't want to win they are crazy. They all want to win but it is also very true that record is not the only way you should judge a program, especially in the early stages of a coaches time there.
 

Wins are like redshirts, Fleck is not going to sacrifice the long term goals for this team in order to gain shallow gratification now.

It's the difference between barbecuing and grilling!
 



MNVCGUY said:
You may be onto something there. You also have to factor in that the crowd that just doesn't like Fleck are going to latch onto any gray area and use it to prove that he doesn't want to win. Kill lowered expectations for years but in general people liked him and bought his schtick so they gave him a pass. Fleck is far more polarizing so he doesn't get the same leeway with a lot of fans.

If there is anyone that truly believes a power 5 head coach doesn't want to win they are crazy. They all want to win but it is also very true that record is not the only way you should judge a program, especially in the early stages of a coaches time there.
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I don't think Fleck haters think he doesn't want to win. Seriously, what does Fleck have to gain by losing? Absolutely, nothing. If he loses here, his HC opportunities evaporate. I think the thing that Fleck detractors don't like is the fact that he took over a 9 win team and didn't make a bowl game last year. Speaking for myself, after watching the games last year, I am convinced that Claeys would have won at least six games with last year's team.

With respect to Kill lowering expectations, when he took over, this program was in a very bad place. I don't want to say that we were lucky to get a head coach after the Brewster experiment, but there is no doubt that we had to go deep in the coaching pool to land Kill because all up and coming hotshot coaches likely saw MN as a dead end job. I don't think coaches viewed MN as the same dead end job after Claeys was fired. I certainly don't think Fleck would have come here after the Brewster fiasco because of the dire shape of the program. (I also understand he likely wouldn't have been hired due to the similar coach speak these two have.)

Nevertheless, Claeys is gone and we are onto Fleck, but I don't think we should have to wait three years for a good team. Despite what Fleck says, this team was not in as bad of shape as he claims and the year zero stuff really annoyed me. When you are making $3.5 million and talking about how players have to be accountable and responsible, talking down the team seems to me to be putting the blame for a poor season on Claeys/Kill and not taking responsibility for his own coaching decisions.
 

BleedGopher said:
P.J. Fleck won’t measure his football team’s 2018 season by how many games the Gophers win.
“Numbers will always get stale,” Fleck said. “If we win so many games some day, that will be the expectation.”
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That's kind of how it works. Championships require wins, not just effort.
 

GO4INLALALAND said:
I don't think Fleck haters think he doesn't want to win. Seriously, what does Fleck have to gain by losing? Absolutely, nothing. If he loses here, his HC opportunities evaporate. I think the thing that Fleck detractors don't like is the fact that he took over a 9 win team and didn't make a bowl game last year. Speaking for myself, after watching the games last year, I am convinced that Claeys would have won at least six games with last year's team.
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Maryland and Purdue were winnable. Then you’re talking 7-5 and a bowl with a chance to end the season with a win, rather than 5-7 and sourness over the last two games.
 
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You have to learn to row the boat before you can win
 

dpodoll68 said:
As the roster is currently constructed, we won't have a senior QB in year 4 - and almost all of Fleck's recruits will be juniors at the oldest. And, assuming that Annexstad is able to hold on to his redshirt this year, he wouldn't be a redshirt senior until year 6.
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I think you’re forgetting that last year was year zero, so in year 4 we will have at least one senior QB providing no one transfers.


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Fleck will either win big in years 4-5 or he won't. And no one can determine whether he will by parsing his words in a press conference. Buy in, if it works, you will be rewarded. If not, it won't matter. The constant worry about what he says, and what it means is so bizarre. He wants to win. He thinks he has the formula to do so long term.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Maryland and Purdue were winnable. Then you’re talking 7-5 and a bowl with a chance to end the season with a win, rather than 5-7 and sourness over the last two games.
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You could also put Iowa and MSU in the winnable category as well. Absolutely possible they could have had eight wins and a chance at nine with a bowl game.
 

PMWinSTP said:
You could also put Iowa and MSU in the winnable category as well. Absolutely possible they could have had eight wins and a chance at nine with a bowl game.
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Using that logic, the 2016 team could have gone 11-1.
 


Maybe you won’t Pj, but most reasonable people would. We are not idiots, we want to see improvement on the field. More coaching, less talking would be good. Show us you were the right guy to lead this team.
 





Too early speculate on the season for a number of reasons. I just hope they give it their best shot and let it play out.
 

Nobody anywhere of any age wants to win Gopher football games more than PJ. But, he is more worried about losing his job than winning games. So his focus is constantly on protecting himself, extending his tenure as the coach more than it is winning games. I think it's hard to actually win when your personal concerns override your decision making process.

We are favored or within a point or two in what was it? 10 games? This season. Maybe we win 8, 9, 10 games this year. I just think the chances of winning would be greater if he said they expect to win. But if he did say that, it could accelerate his self preservation time table if they lost. To me you can't coach that way. Your team hears what you say...it all adds up...if he has doubts...they have greater doubts.

Each season takes on a life of it's own. The players will determine how many we win this year by taking ownership to accelerate the 2020 timetable or choosing to stay on course plodding along. The problem will be when we get to 2019 and 2020, there will be so much pressure to win that nobody can breathe, making it very difficult to achieve the promised results. The be careful writing checks you can't cash syndrome.
 

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