Rank the following teams

Yes, good point on Gibbs, since we all knew how bad the Wacker teams were on defense, yet Mason's best defensive team was in '99 with many of the Wacker recruits playing key roles. Someone knew how to get those leftovers to a high level and Mason never had another defense that great.

I had some hope in 2003- 2005 that the defense was getting better, but that all ended when Brandon Owens went down. Mason had some things moving in the right direction with those 3rd tier Ohio recruits like Eli Ward, Jason Isom, Montgomery, and few other guys, but they never had any depth.

Agree. Eli Ward had many great moments. Isom played way above his size, and Montgomery... I kept hoping he'd get to his potential. Like Hageman he had so much potential.

The one guy that I really wish would have had at least one more year under Mason was Lamanzer Williams. In one season(1997), he had one of the highest sack counts in the nation(22?).
 

The 8-5 2002 team would have been a great team if the season ended in October and then they played their Bowl Game. It didn't. They went 0-4 in November and were outscored by an average of 22 points a game.

The 2004 team went 3-5 in the Big Ten. They played 3 ranked teams and lost to all of them. They lost 5 out of their last 6 Big Ten games. They beat ALA in the Music City Bowl but dpodoll was right. The Tide ended-up being a 6-6 team but yeah it felt so good at the time. :eek: The Holiday Bowl Trophy win against WSU was a bigger win to anybody who was actually paying attention.

The 2005 team? 4-4 Conference team but did have the wins against #11 Purdue and #21 Michigan. If they had held on to that lead against the Badgers or Mason had told his punter what to do with a muffed punt in the end zone against WI it might be worth a "best of" list. But he didn't and it was the week after the big win at Michigan making it even worse. They proceeded to lose 4 of their last 6 games.

The 2013 team beat #21 Nebraska at HOME, were 4-2 in the Big Ten, then lost their last 3, including a crushing loss to Wisconsin and a "should have won" loss against Syracuse in Texas.

The 2016 team went 9-4 and they were within 7 points on 3 of their 4 losses. The went 5-3 in the Big Ten. They WON 6 out of their last 8 games. Something that Gopher teams regardless of schedule just haven't done. It was the off field troubles that made the season feel so bad. Nothing wrong with saying that. It's true, but pretending that it wasn't a good team or a good record is sophistry at it's most transparent.

This is how I'd rank them.

1999 team
2003 team
2014 team
2016 team
2013 team

That's the only really decent teams in 20 years. No make that 45 years!!!!!

That's just god awful.

It is awful. But the 2016 team was not good, and calling it sophistry doesn’t make it so. They lost the games we all expected them to lose - PSU, Iowa, Neb, Wisc. 5-4 in conference. The Wash St game was a good win and it was good to win a bowl game.
 

#1 = 2003 2-2 in Trophy games, but 0-3 vs top 25.
#2 = 1999. 1-3 vs Top 25. 2-1 Trophy games.

drop off

#3 = 2005. 2-2 vs Top 25, but only 1-3 in trophy games
#4 = 2014. 2-1 trophy games, 1-3 vs Top 25.

drop off

#5 = 2004. 0-3 vs top 25. 1-3 in trophy games. 3-5 in conference. Wins vs PSU, ILL, and NW.


big drop off

#6 = 2016 (and I might rank lower) 0-2 vs top 25. 0-4 in trophy games. Only season out of all we didn't win a single trophy game out of the four. Not an impressive win on the whole schedule.

Defensive masterpiece:
 

Quality of wins absolutely matters. Some are way more important. And It’s ok to be openly anti-Claeys. The team won some games that year but watching them it was clear they weren’t a good squad. Pair that with a coach that had the charisma of a pie crust and yeah time for a change.

Can’t tell if that change will be positive yet but we had a Kill-Claeys-Leidner malignancy here that had to be removed. Anti-Claeys all the way.
As Bryce Harper would say that's a clown post bro. I truly believe kill/claeys team would beat the Mason teams. I know I gave the 03 team higher marks due to the record, but I think the defense would've crapped the bed and those Kill/Claeys would have kept them in the game to take advantage. They were so much better in game than anything we've had in my 30 years watching this team.

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Ok, when we're going to start talking like "close losses" are important, then we need to start talking about how Brewster was a better coach against WI than Kill, Claeys, or Mason.
It's a ridiculous argument.
Are we going to discount "close losses to Rutgers" as well then?


Defending this 2016 team all because you are still bitter about how that season went down is not a reason to use your displaced anger to try to call that a top 5 Gopher football season.


I can grant you that 2004 was maybe closer to 2016 in comparison, but simply because 2016 won more cupcake games doesn't make it a better team or a better season.

The 2004 season we started a sophomore QB named Bryan Cupito who hadn't started before so expectations were low.
The 2016 team brought back a senior starter and that team was supposed to contend for a west title yet didn't beat a single ranked opponent (or trophy win).

From a results standpoint, I consider them almost identical, but from an expectations standpoint, 2004 exceed expectations. Where 2016 greatly disappointed.
 

As Bryce Harper would say that's a clown post bro. I truly believe kill/claeys team would beat the Mason teams. I know I gave the 03 team higher marks due to the record, but I think the defense would've crapped the bed and those Kill/Claeys would have kept them in the game to take advantage. They were so much better in game than anything we've had in my 30 years watching this team.

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Then why didn't they beat someone good?
 




Defensive masterpiece:

I gotta think Washington came in overconfident too or something. Not to take anything away from the defense, they did great. The actual play that won the game, a bit more random and flip a coin and I think it goes the other way ;)
 

Except they weren't ranked. And we still had two NFL players in the secondary.

I always think they were ranked too, but nope.

They were ranked at one point, just not for that game... not saying it counts, but I always think that.
 


I always think they were ranked too, but nope.

They were ranked at one point, just not for that game... not saying it counts, but I always think that.

Easy error to make. WSU was ranked #25 on 11/5, #23 on 11/12, #20 on 11/19 and #23 before they played and lost to #6Washington on 11/25. They fell out of the Top 25 after that loss.
 



Then why didn't they beat someone good?
They beat the best two teams Fleck beat by more that year, and were much more competitive in Madison than that Cotton Bowl was. So either we weren't good or we hired an overrated preacher who cant coach?

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I gotta think Washington came in overconfident too or something. Not to take anything away from the defense, they did great. The actual play that won the game, a bit more random and flip a coin and I think it goes the other way ;)
Fair point. What made it great for me is the coaches and players didn't fold under adversity. The coaches put players in position to win. Coaching, players belief in the strategy, and execution. Next man up. Great team win.
 

Fair point. What made it great for me is the coaches and players didn't fold under adversity. The coaches put players in position to win. Coaching, players belief in the strategy, and execution. Next man up. Great team win.

Yeah I expected to get stomped .... the result was one of the more unexpected wins in a while.
 

They beat the best two teams Fleck beat by more that year, and were much more competitive in Madison than that Cotton Bowl was. So either we weren't good or we hired an overrated preacher who cant coach?

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I didn't see any of Fleck's teams listed in this discussion thread.
 

I always think they were ranked too, but nope.

They were ranked at one point, just not for that game... not saying it counts, but I always think that.

They were undoubtedly highly favored over the gophers in that game though. We had a depleted team and the ones that played came through when needed with a very good game plan. It was a very good win for us despite Washington State not being ranked.


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They were undoubtedly highly favored over the gophers in that game though. We had a depleted team and the ones that played came through when needed with a very good game plan. It was a very good win for us despite Washington State not being ranked.


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This single game must be a top 10 Gopher victory of all time by the way people on here talk about that game.

If only we could have had 5-10 players missing for another game against a team like Northwestern, we'd have another great game to add to our list!
 

This single game must be a top 10 Gopher victory of all time by the way people on here talk about that game.

If only we could have had 5-10 players missing for another game against a team like Northwestern, we'd have another great game to add to our list!

I guess if you want to use hyperbole go ahead


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and when will we see the first Fleck-coached team that belongs on a list of best Gopher FB seasons?

this year (2018)? next year? five years from now? never?

Don't get me wrong - I want to see the Gophers put up a great year. I want to see the Gophers as part of a legitimate conversation about the best teams in the conference - maybe even one of the best teams in the country.

But, if you hooked me up to a lie detector, and I had to be honest - as we sit here today, if I had to guess whether a Fleck-coached team gets on the list of best Gopher teams, I would say "no."

I know some of you really believe in the guy. I don't. I just don't have faith that Fleck will be able to take the program to that level.
 

This single game must be a top 10 Gopher victory of all time by the way people on here talk about that game.

If only we could have had 5-10 players missing for another game against a team like Northwestern, we'd have another great game to add to our list!

I'm kind of on your side on this, but.....name 10 victories in the past 35 years that would be above it.

-Michigan '86
-Wisconsin '93
-Wisconsin '94
-Penn State '99
-Ohio State '00
-Michigan '05
-Iowa '90

If BTN was making the list, they'd probably add '96 Minnesota-Illinois, but I can't really name any more. There certainly were some fun wins ('09 MSU, '04 Alabama, '02 Arkansas, Wisconsin, '03, '03 Oregon, I'd even throw in '13 Indiana in the fun column)
 

I'm kind of on your side on this, but.....name 10 victories in the past 35 years that would be above it.

-Michigan '86
-Wisconsin '93
-Wisconsin '94
-Penn State '99
-Ohio State '00
-Michigan '05
-Iowa '90

If BTN was making the list, they'd probably add '96 Minnesota-Illinois, but I can't really name any more. There certainly were some fun wins ('09 MSU, '04 Alabama, '02 Arkansas, Wisconsin, '03, '03 Oregon, I'd even throw in '13 Indiana in the fun column)

You could add both Nebraska wins in ‘13 and ‘14 for sure.


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They were undoubtedly highly favored over the gophers in that game though. We had a depleted team and the ones that played came through when needed with a very good game plan. It was a very good win for us despite Washington State not being ranked.


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Yep!
 

I'm kind of on your side on this, but.....name 10 victories in the past 35 years that would be above it.

-Michigan '86
-Wisconsin '93
-Wisconsin '94
-Penn State '99
-Ohio State '00
-Michigan '05
-Iowa '90

If BTN was making the list, they'd probably add '96 Minnesota-Illinois, but I can't really name any more. There certainly were some fun wins ('09 MSU, '04 Alabama, '02 Arkansas, Wisconsin, '03, '03 Oregon, I'd even throw in '13 Indiana in the fun column)

Well, for me it doesn't rank that high.
Just about any win over MSU, PSU, Mich, WIS, IOWA, OSU NEB, I would rate higher and half of our wins against NW and Purdue.
 

They beat the best two teams Fleck beat by more that year, and were much more competitive in Madison than that Cotton Bowl was.

Maybe I'm misreading what you're trying to communicate here, but I don't think you're correct in two of your three examples. Maybe you could explain further?
 




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