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  1. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by MnplsGopher View Post
    Question for bball recruiting experts here: is it necessarily a "bad thing" if Twin Cities recruits "don't bother" to use up one of their official visits on the U of Minn?? I mean, it's really nothing for them to drive to campus. They can do that any time they want, and probably can pop down for free games, VIP box seats, free food, etc., all the time, and probably do, is my wild guess.
    There are zero recruiting experts, some just scout, research and follow it closer than others. There is a pretty big difference between a official and unofficial visit. Walton taking a UNC visit is big news because it is UNC. They have a ton to sell and right now have a huge recruiting roll going. None of it excites me and i will tell you why. Many fans here dislike my my admiration for UVA but follow along as a example. They always lose Virginia kids to Duke, UNC, Kentucky. They had a verbal commit from Sacha Killyea Jones, he backed out and went to Kentucky. That open scholarship ended up going to Deandre Hunter, who turned out better ? I f the U does not get Walton we have no clue if the guy that does come will not be better. Look at Gabe, he turned out way outperforming his ranking, out playing at least 50 % of the guys ranked above him. Do not get me wrong, i want Walton here but only if this is where he is dying to play.


  2. #182
    Join Date
    May 2019
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    Columbia Heights
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    Has Walton even given a final list, does he plan to? I still have hope until he puts one out with the Gophers not on it, he is planning some more upcoming visits (reportedly) maybe the Gophers will be added at that point.

  3. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by WriterGoph View Post
    For comparison's sake, everyone was very excited that Garcia chose to take an official to the U even though he has been on campus a ton and taken a number of unofficials already. My opinion is that it shows a definite level of interest if a local recruit is willing to take one of their 5 officials with us. Plus, the experience (because of what the school is able to provide and pay for) on an official is quite a bit different than an unofficial.

    That said, it's feasible Walton could not take an official with us, but still commit to the U. I don't know how much he has been on campus off the top of my head. On the other hand, I cannot remember a local recruit committing to us recently without taking an official.
    Agree that an official visit is important, and I think there's stuff they're allowed to do on an official that they can't on an unofficial, like I think they can put recruits in hotel and take them out to fancy meals on the school's dime. I've seen recruits post pictures from a photoshoot kind of thing after official visits here where they put on a Gopher basketball uniform and get pictures taken in different poses and whatnot, which I don't think they do for unofficial visitors.

    Michael Hurt, Daniel Oturu, Jarvis Omersa, and Gabe Kalscheur all committed before taking an official visit here, but they all took an official eventually, and they were all relatively early commits. Hurt and Oturu I think both committed in January of their junior year, and Omersa and Kalscheur committed in July in the summer between junior and senior year. The last two Minnesota kids who waited until fall before committing here were Amir Coffey and Jarvis Johnson, and they both took officials here before committing. Joe Coleman I think is the last one before that and that was a long time ago, so it's harder to find info, but I feel like he probably took an official here before committing.

    Long story short, the pattern says that Minnesota kids who decide earlier on to play for the Gophers will commit before taking an official, but kids who wait until fall will not commit here without taking an official.

  4. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayman View Post
    Agree that an official visit is important, and I think there's stuff they're allowed to do on an official that they can't on an unofficial, like I think they can put recruits in hotel and take them out to fancy meals on the school's dime. I've seen recruits post pictures from a photoshoot kind of thing after official visits here where they put on a Gopher basketball uniform and get pictures taken in different poses and whatnot, which I don't think they do for unofficial visitors.

    Michael Hurt, Daniel Oturu, Jarvis Omersa, and Gabe Kalscheur all committed before taking an official visit here, but they all took an official eventually, and they were all relatively early commits. Hurt and Oturu I think both committed in January of their junior year, and Omersa and Kalscheur committed in July in the summer between junior and senior year. The last two Minnesota kids who waited until fall before committing here were Amir Coffey and Jarvis Johnson, and they both took officials here before committing. Joe Coleman I think is the last one before that and that was a long time ago, so it's harder to find info, but I feel like he probably took an official here before committing.

    Long story short, the pattern says that Minnesota kids who decide earlier on to play for the Gophers will commit before taking an official, but kids who wait until fall will not commit here without taking an official.
    Good info. Thanks for pointing those out. I feel like we all agree it would be better off if Walton takes an official.

  5. #185

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    Quote Originally Posted by WriterGoph View Post
    Good info. Thanks for pointing those out. I feel like we all agree it would be better off if Walton takes an official.
    If a local kid won't give the U an official, then I take it as they look at the U as a fall back school. It is too bad, wasn't the U one of the first to give him an offer, before he blew up? As it turns out, he could have gone to the U if he wanted, but we may not have room.

    As built points out, many times the "next kid in line" ends up as good or better than the one that got all of the attention! You have to have players that want to be here at the U.

  6. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemy2u View Post
    If a local kid won't give the U an official, then I take it as they look at the U as a fall back school. It is too bad, wasn't the U one of the first to give him an offer, before he blew up? As it turns out, he could have gone to the U if he wanted, but we may not have room.

    As built points out, many times the "next kid in line" ends up as good or better than the one that got all of the attention! You have to have players that want to be here at the U.
    Just could care less where they are ranked or where they are from. Have seen programs build conference winners and final 4 teams with classes ranked below 50. But what they had was kids that loved the idea of playing for the school they wanted, no matter if they had so called bigger offers or not.

  7. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by builtbadgers View Post
    Just could care less where they are ranked or where they are from. Have seen programs build conference winners and final 4 teams with classes ranked below 50. But what they had was kids that loved the idea of playing for the school they wanted, no matter if they had so called bigger offers or not.
    You could put together a team of super fans/Gopher Hole posters who "love the idea of playing for the Gophers". Don't think we would win a single game though. Talent matters, and the more talented kids tend to be ranked higher. Sometimes kids exceed expectations and sometimes they fall short, but there is a strong correlation between rankings and college/pro success.

  8. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Söze View Post
    You could put together a team of super fans/Gopher Hole posters who "love the idea of playing for the Gophers". Don't think we would win a single game though. Talent matters, and the more talented kids tend to be ranked higher. Sometimes kids exceed expectations and sometimes they fall short, but there is a strong correlation between rankings and college/pro success.
    The bigger key with kids is development and how you can help them grow. Nate Mason was not highly ranked, niether was Murphy. I'd say they ended in the top 70 in their class at the end of the day. Tons of Jarret Culvers of the world who were 3 stars that become a ton better than guys ranked higher than them. The rankings are really only good at picking the top 10 kids in a class. The rest is a crapshoot and an algorithm of the accumulation of offers

  9. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Söze View Post
    You could put together a team of super fans/Gopher Hole posters who "love the idea of playing for the Gophers". Don't think we would win a single game though. Talent matters, and the more talented kids tend to be ranked higher. Sometimes kids exceed expectations and sometimes they fall short, but there is a strong correlation between rankings and college/pro success.
    Not a question of wanting good players, everyone does. Anyone can rank the top 10 in a class but after that it is finding the ones that fit what you do well and make them into a team. Look at the non blue bloods that did not recruit at the top level but built elite winners, conference championship teams on players that stayed in the program. If you have juniors and seniors they can compete and beat the blue blood first years.

  10. #190

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    From the 2014 class in football, roughly 57.6% of 5-stars, 23.6% of 4-stars, 6.9% of 3-stars, and 1.1% of 2-starts were drafted.

    From the 2013 class in football, roughly 65.7% of 5-stars, 23% of 4-stars, 5% of 3-stars, and 1.4% of 2-starts were drafted.

    https://247sports.com/Article/NFL-Dr...nd--117819292/

    Feel free to think rankings don't matter, but the numbers prove you wrong.

  11. #191
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Söze View Post
    From the 2014 class in football, roughly 57.6% of 5-stars, 23.6% of 4-stars, 6.9% of 3-stars, and 1.1% of 2-starts were drafted.

    From the 2013 class in football, roughly 65.7% of 5-stars, 23% of 4-stars, 5% of 3-stars, and 1.4% of 2-starts were drafted.

    https://247sports.com/Article/NFL-Dr...nd--117819292/

    Feel free to think rankings don't matter, but the numbers prove you wrong.
    Football? What we talkin' bout again?
    Please consider donating to this site; especially if you are a frequent poster.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesBolstad View Post
    Football? What we talkin' bout again?
    Higher star rating leads to probability of moving on to nfl/nba. Quality of player is relative to rankings (to some point).

  13. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by LesBolstad View Post
    Football? What we talkin' bout again?
    Not aware of any articles with similar research for the NBA draft otherwise I would have posted that instead, but I didn't think anyone would argue that recruiting rankings matter for one sport and not the other. Regardless of your position on how much recruiting rankings matter, pretty sure everyone holds the same opinion for both sports.

  14. #194

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Söze View Post
    Not aware of any articles with similar research for the NBA draft otherwise I would have posted that instead, but I didn't think anyone would argue that recruiting rankings matter for one sport and not the other. Regardless of your position on how much recruiting rankings matter, pretty sure everyone holds the same opinion for both sports.
    Not an apples to apples conversation. Football has 7 rounds a year for those kids to get drafted. Also football is easier to predict as far as pros. Basketball is a little different outside the top 5-10, rest of the NBA draft picks are a crap shoot. Also most NCAA championships teams the last 5-10 years have had 1-2 top 20 kids in their class. They kill in the 50-150 range and develop them for 3-4 years

    This is what makes a guy like Walton to have a chance to be so valuable. 3-4 year guy who Hs chance to develop.
    Last edited by manderson1984; 10-03-2019 at 04:11 PM.

  15. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Söze View Post
    Not aware of any articles with similar research for the NBA draft otherwise I would have posted that instead, but I didn't think anyone would argue that recruiting rankings matter for one sport and not the other. Regardless of your position on how much recruiting rankings matter, pretty sure everyone holds the same opinion for both sports.
    Not making that argument but football is a totally different animal. Villanova, UW,UVA, Butler , Xavier all built incredibly strong programs, UVA and Nova elite with very few top 25 kids especially if you pull the data from when kids were offered. Of course you want better players but great staffs can find great players from way outside the top 25, develop them and win big. Your not going to win many recruiting battles against the blue bloods but you can beat them another way. Give me 5 Gabe's, one for each positions and you will contend at the top of the conference every year. UW did it, UVA was built with smart crafted players that were valued on a set of intangibles undervalued by the internet scouts. This was done intentionally with a far better eye. Thinking well, reacting quickly, court awareness, preprioception, length not height , quickness not speed, character and on and on.

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