Marcus: Gopher basketball early projected lineup

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Again as I have said before Orturo is the real deal and will much better that people think...
 

book said:
Again as I have said before Orturo is the real deal and will much better that people think...
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As I have said before, his low post game and offense in general doesn't get enough credit on here. His footwork and touch around the basket is rather advanced for a high school recruit and is light years better than any other center we've recruited recently. And of course the rebounding and shot blocking are there as well.
 

Keyser Söze said:
No team is a lock. Injuries, suspensions, and crazy things can happen to any team. And sometimes, teams just fall short of expectations for no apparent reason. On paper though, this team should be considered a tournament team. It's possible we will fall short for various reasons, but there is absolutely no reason to EXPECT us to miss the tournament. Makes no sense with the roster we have.
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Bingo! Keyser wins! Of course there are scenarios where we don’t make the tourney. The team bus could fall off the Stone Arch Bridge and plunge into the icy Mississippi in November. The team could all be stricken with smallpox and double-diblutis (a made-up illness). Tons of reasons. The simple point is our roster as it stands should be a tournament team. Will that actually happen? No guarantees in life, but it should be fun to watch. I would love for coach to actually have an intact roster that he has built to see what he can do.


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dpodoll68 said:
So if you're expecting the Gophers to make the Tournament - what happens to Pitino if they don't?
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I'm expecting to make the tournament IF we don't have any major injuries or suspensions. If the roster stays intact and we miss the tournament, I'd say we should probably start looking for a new coach.
 

Keyser Söze said:
I'm expecting to make the tournament IF we don't have any major injuries or suspensions. If the roster stays intact and we miss the tournament, I'd say we should probably start looking for a new coach.
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At what point is the coach no longer allowed to make excuses and actually own the results produced on the court?
 


dpodoll68 said:
At what point is the coach no longer allowed to make excuses and actually own the results produced on the court?
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When an unusual quantity of weird injuries don’t decimate the lineup.


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Bordergopher said:
When an unusual quantity of weird injuries don’t decimate the lineup.


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At some point he has to create a roster that is able to withstand an injury or two. At least to a point where they don’t completely fall off the face of the earth. The bandwidth for expectations can’t be that wide.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
At some point he has to create a roster that is able to withstand an injury or two. At least to a point where they don’t completely fall off the face of the earth. The bandwidth for expectations can’t be that wide.
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To your point, the depth has to be there to withstand a “normal” level of injuries, and we haven’t had that depth. What is normal? Not sure of that answer, but last year was not normal.


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Bordergopher said:
To your point, the depth has to be there to withstand a “normal” level of injuries, and we haven’t had that depth. What is normal? Not sure of that answer, but last year was not normal.


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At what point are you going to place responsibility upon him for the depth issues?
 




Laughable. We haven’t had depth that could withstand losing more than one starter since Muss was coach (maybe the early Dutcher years). Or are people forgetting every coach we’ve had since has had seasons derailed by the loss of one or two players.
 

goldenboy said:
Laughable. We haven’t had depth that could withstand losing more than one starter since Muss was coach (maybe the early Dutcher years). Or are people forgetting every coach we’ve had since has had seasons derailed by the loss of one or two players.
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That 2009-10 Tubby team was a potential conference championship contender that ended up being merely decent without Royce White and Trevor Mbakwe. We went .500 in conference, made the tournament, and lost the first game, I think it was against Xavier.
 

2016-17. Perennial weak sister team jumps up and earns ncaa 5 seed with strong 7-man rotation. Fans very happy.

2017-18. 7-man rotation returns (minus AS, plus IW) for team weak sister. Expectations are high locally and nationally. Three injuries and a suspension derail season. Players 8-13 on roster aren't up to the task.

Coach answers disappointing season with 3 spring recruits who bring unanimous approval from fans.

What should be the key factor in Coyle's evaluation of coach for these last two seasons:
a) #5 ncaa seed in 2016-17
b) 4 injuries/suspension in 2017-18
c) inadequacy of players 8-13 on roster in 2017-18
d) strong spring recruiting class in 2018

Somehow, for a good many the answer seems to be (c). It overshadows all else that has happened over the past two years. Proportionality is not allowed.
 



How some fans refuse to hold a coach accountable going into their 6th year for the lack of depth and problems with the roster is beyond me.


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scools12 said:
How some fans refuse to hold a coach accountable going into their 6th year for the lack of depth and problems with the roster is beyond me.


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I agree with you. Coach is responsible for lack of output for players 8-13 on the roster. Just isn't the whole story.
 

ltf said:
2016-17. Perennial weak sister team jumps up and earns ncaa 5 seed with strong 7-man rotation. Fans very happy.

2017-18. 7-man rotation returns (minus AS, plus IW) for team weak sister. Expectations are high locally and nationally. Three injuries and a suspension derail season. Players 8-13 on roster aren't up to the task.

Coach answers disappointing season with 3 spring recruits who bring unanimous approval from fans.

What should be the key factor in Coyle's evaluation of coach for these last two seasons:
a) #5 ncaa seed in 2016-17
b) 4 injuries/suspension in 2017-18
c) inadequacy of players 8-13 on roster in 2017-18
d) strong spring recruiting class in 2018

Somehow, for a good many the answer seems to be (c). It overshadows all else that has happened over the past two years. Proportionality is not allowed.
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At some point, the metric has to be the full body of work as measured by on court results. He has had five seasons. They have included one one-and -done, one NIT title, and three years where we failed to qualify even for the NIT. That is three horrible years, with two mediocre years. Pitino's lows have been low, and his highs have not been impressive. We need to see a team that is better than a bubble team that goes one-and-done this year, or his seat is going to be really hot.
 

maybe I'm a pessimist - or maybe I'm more realistic. but here's what I see when looking at the Gopher roster:

1 "sure thing" returning in Jordan Murphy.

3 players returning from serious injury issues - Curry, Coffey, McBrayer. Will they be 100%? Won't know till we see them play in a game. If all 3 are 100%, big plus for the team. If one or more is not 100%, could be problem.

Players with questions about their game: Washington, Hurt. Can Washington be "the man" at PG? won't know till we see him do it. Lots of potential, but by no means a finished product. and Hurt - can he provide something (anything) on offense, or is he just a body.

Transfers - Stull, Stockman. Stull moving up to a power conference - can he make the transition smoothly. Stockman has very little playing time in the past - can he show the ability to justify more playing time with the Gophers?

and three true Freshmen. How do they make the jump from HS to a major D1 conference?

Again - if all the questions are answered positively or favorably for the Gophers, yes, this roster has the potential to be a lot of fun.

But right now, that's all it is - potential. Depending on what happens, I could see this team make the NCAA tournament - wind up in the NIT - or wind up out of the tournament picture. Just too many variables now to know, until we see the team actually play a few games that matter.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
maybe I'm a pessimist - or maybe I'm more realistic. but here's what I see when looking at the Gopher roster:

1 "sure thing" returning in Jordan Murphy.

3 players returning from serious injury issues - Curry, Coffey, McBrayer. Will they be 100%? Won't know till we see them play in a game. If all 3 are 100%, big plus for the team. If one or more is not 100%, could be problem.

Players with questions about their game: Washington, Hurt. Can Washington be "the man" at PG? won't know till we see him do it. Lots of potential, but by no means a finished product. and Hurt - can he provide something (anything) on offense, or is he just a body.

Transfers - Stull, Stockman. Stull moving up to a power conference - can he make the transition smoothly. Stockman has very little playing time in the past - can he show the ability to justify more playing time with the Gophers?

and three true Freshmen. How do they make the jump from HS to a major D1 conference?

Again - if all the questions are answered positively or favorably for the Gophers, yes, this roster has the potential to be a lot of fun.

But right now, that's all it is - potential. Depending on what happens, I could see this team make the NCAA tournament - wind up in the NIT - or wind up out of the tournament picture. Just too many variables now to know, until we see the team actually play a few games that matter.
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I'm with s.o.n. on this one. After last season, seeing will be believing. The behavioral blindsiding that happens to this team is disastrously epic.

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Agree about lots of questions, but isn’t that pretty much always the case? Every year. Every freshmen. For every team (except a small number of blue bloods)? Perhaps we have a few more questions than normal because we had more injuries last year than normal. Of course we don’t know what will happen. The point here is that our talent level and depth has been greatly improved (except for the point guard position). That should translate to more wins.


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short ornery norwegian said:
maybe I'm a pessimist - or maybe I'm more realistic. but here's what I see when looking at the Gopher roster:

1 "sure thing" returning in Jordan Murphy.

3 players returning from serious injury issues - Curry, Coffey, McBrayer. Will they be 100%? Won't know till we see them play in a game. If all 3 are 100%, big plus for the team. If one or more is not 100%, could be problem.

Players with questions about their game: Washington, Hurt. Can Washington be "the man" at PG? won't know till we see him do it. Lots of potential, but by no means a finished product. and Hurt - can he provide something (anything) on offense, or is he just a body.

Transfers - Stull, Stockman. Stull moving up to a power conference - can he make the transition smoothly. Stockman has very little playing time in the past - can he show the ability to justify more playing time with the Gophers?

and three true Freshmen. How do they make the jump from HS to a major D1 conference?

Again - if all the questions are answered positively or favorably for the Gophers, yes, this roster has the potential to be a lot of fun.

But right now, that's all it is - potential. Depending on what happens, I could see this team make the NCAA tournament - wind up in the NIT - or wind up out of the tournament picture. Just too many variables now to know, until we see the team actually play a few games that matter.
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Well said SON
 

short ornery norwegian said:
maybe I'm a pessimist - or maybe I'm more realistic. but here's what I see when looking at the Gopher roster:

1 "sure thing" returning in Jordan Murphy.

3 players returning from serious injury issues - Curry, Coffey, McBrayer. Will they be 100%? Won't know till we see them play in a game. If all 3 are 100%, big plus for the team. If one or more is not 100%, could be problem.

Players with questions about their game: Washington, Hurt. Can Washington be "the man" at PG? won't know till we see him do it. Lots of potential, but by no means a finished product. and Hurt - can he provide something (anything) on offense, or is he just a body.

Transfers - Stull, Stockman. Stull moving up to a power conference - can he make the transition smoothly. Stockman has very little playing time in the past - can he show the ability to justify more playing time with the Gophers?

and three true Freshmen. How do they make the jump from HS to a major D1 conference?

Again - if all the questions are answered positively or favorably for the Gophers, yes, this roster has the potential to be a lot of fun.

But right now, that's all it is - potential. Depending on what happens, I could see this team make the NCAA tournament - wind up in the NIT - or wind up out of the tournament picture. Just too many variables now to know, until we see the team actually play a few games that matter.
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Sorry SON, I have to vote pessimist. Like BorderGopher said, you could ask the same questions every year of every team anywhere. Sure it's reality that they could be bad. It's also reality that they could be a top four Big Ten team.
I feel confident they will get healthy. My "realistic" self does wonder if they will stay healthy (and eligible) based on history. If they do, we have the athletes and skill to achieve great things.
IW can't play that bad again, he's too talented.
McBrayer will conquer his health issues and play at the high level he has shown in streaks previously. Healthy is the key.
Coffey will be healthy and hungry....and in the running to be our best player.
Murphy will be consistent, lead by example and keep throwing up double doubles.
Curry will be much improved and he was valuable prior to the leap in ability we will see.
That's 5 guys that I'm not too sure what other teams can match that?
Stull has the experience, confidence, leadership and shot making ability we need.
Matz is going to be a step up from the post reserves on last years 14th ranked team.
Oturu and Omersa are probably the best athletes on the team. Just play with energy and they'll help defensively and on the boards.
That's nine guys...we have not had nine competent contributors any time recently. Guys who bring a skill or elite athleticism.
Hurt is likely what he is and there may not be minutes for him.
Gabe has the potential to contribute but may get stuck behind some other people.
If Carr wins his request to be immediately eligible we are absolutely better than the 14th ranked Gophers of last year.
We'd have 12 guys who actually could contribute effectively if given the chance at the D1 level. We would for the first time have an entire second team that could realistically beat out somebody for a starting spot.
You are a 100% right we won't know what we have until a half a dozen games in but if we are healthy and eligible we are gonna be good.
The new assistants will help, Richard has shown he can coach when he has available options. Brad Stevens and John Wooden couldn't win with some of the decimated crews we've trotted out there.
It's gonna be fun SON!!
 

60's Guy said:
Sorry SON, I have to vote pessimist. Like BorderGopher said, you could ask the same questions every year of every team anywhere. Sure it's reality that they could be bad. It's also reality that they could be a top four Big Ten team.
I feel confident they will get healthy. My "realistic" self does wonder if they will stay healthy (and eligible) based on history. If they do, we have the athletes and skill to achieve great things.
IW can't play that bad again, he's too talented.
McBrayer will conquer his health issues and play at the high level he has shown in streaks previously. Healthy is the key.
Coffey will be healthy and hungry....and in the running to be our best player.
Murphy will be consistent, lead by example and keep throwing up double doubles.
Curry will be much improved and he was valuable prior to the leap in ability we will see.
That's 5 guys that I'm not too sure what other teams can match that?
Stull has the experience, confidence, leadership and shot making ability we need.
Matz is going to be a step up from the post reserves on last years 14th ranked team.
Oturu and Omersa are probably the best athletes on the team. Just play with energy and they'll help defensively and on the boards.
That's nine guys...we have not had nine competent contributors any time recently. Guys who bring a skill or elite athleticism.
Hurt is likely what he is and there may not be minutes for him.
Gabe has the potential to contribute but may get stuck behind some other people.
If Carr wins his request to be immediately eligible we are absolutely better than the 14th ranked Gophers of last year.
We'd have 12 guys who actually could contribute effectively if given the chance at the D1 level. We would for the first time have an entire second team that could realistically beat out somebody for a starting spot.
You are a 100% right we won't know what we have until a half a dozen games in but if we are healthy and eligible we are gonna be good.
The new assistants will help, Richard has shown he can coach when he has available options. Brad Stevens and John Wooden couldn't win with some of the decimated crews we've trotted out there.
It's gonna be fun SON!!
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Brad Stevens is almost certainly taking his team to the NBA Finals - with his two best players missing. Great coaches deal with imperfect situations and win anyway. It's not a solid example.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Brad Stevens is almost certainly taking his team to the NBA Finals - with his two best players missing. Great coaches deal with imperfect situations and win anyway. It's not a solid example.
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While I understand and somewhat agree with the sentiment that great coaches deal with imperfect situations...Brad Stevens is not a good example. He has two top 3 picks with Tatum and Brown along with an excellent supporting cast of Rozier, Smart and other role players. The Celtics have incredible depth behind Hayward and Irving, something the Gophers had zero of last year. While I agree that depth issues are ultimately on Pitino, the situations are certainly not apples to apples between the Gophers and Celtics.
 

Frank Grimey Grimes said:
While I understand and somewhat agree with the sentiment that great coaches deal with imperfect situations...Brad Stevens is not a good example. He has two top 3 picks with Tatum and Brown along with an excellent supporting cast of Rozier, Smart and other role players. The Celtics have incredible depth behind Hayward and Irving, something the Gophers had zero of last year. While I agree that depth issues are ultimately on Pitino, the situations are certainly not apples to apples between the Gophers and Celtics.
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Bs

76ers. Same argument?

Brad Stevens has absolutely coached that team well past their weight class.
 

Frank Grimey Grimes said:
While I understand and somewhat agree with the sentiment that great coaches deal with imperfect situations...Brad Stevens is not a good example. He has two top 3 picks with Tatum and Brown along with an excellent supporting cast of Rozier, Smart and other role players. The Celtics have incredible depth behind Hayward and Irving, something the Gophers had zero of last year. While I agree that depth issues are ultimately on Pitino, the situations are certainly not apples to apples between the Gophers and Celtics.
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I agree with Winnasota
Brown and Tatum are solid right now and will probably end up being very good but definitely not guys that would usually be able to get their teams all the way to a conference finals as the two best players. As of right now, they don't really have an All Star caliber player that is healthy. On most teams if Tatum was your best player, they would be pretty bad.
 

60's Guy said:
Sorry SON, I have to vote pessimist. Like BorderGopher said, you could ask the same questions every year of every team anywhere. Sure it's reality that they could be bad. It's also reality that they could be a top four Big Ten team.
I feel confident they will get healthy. My "realistic" self does wonder if they will stay healthy (and eligible) based on history. If they do, we have the athletes and skill to achieve great things.
IW can't play that bad again, he's too talented.
McBrayer will conquer his health issues and play at the high level he has shown in streaks previously. Healthy is the key.
Coffey will be healthy and hungry....and in the running to be our best player.
Murphy will be consistent, lead by example and keep throwing up double doubles.
Curry will be much improved and he was valuable prior to the leap in ability we will see.
That's 5 guys that I'm not too sure what other teams can match that?
Stull has the experience, confidence, leadership and shot making ability we need.
Matz is going to be a step up from the post reserves on last years 14th ranked team.
Oturu and Omersa are probably the best athletes on the team. Just play with energy and they'll help defensively and on the boards.
That's nine guys...we have not had nine competent contributors any time recently. Guys who bring a skill or elite athleticism.
Hurt is likely what he is and there may not be minutes for him.
Gabe has the potential to contribute but may get stuck behind some other people.
If Carr wins his request to be immediately eligible we are absolutely better than the 14th ranked Gophers of last year.
We'd have 12 guys who actually could contribute effectively if given the chance at the D1 level. We would for the first time have an entire second team that could realistically beat out somebody for a starting spot.
You are a 100% right we won't know what we have until a half a dozen games in but if we are healthy and eligible we are gonna be good.
The new assistants will help, Richard has shown he can coach when he has available options. Brad Stevens and John Wooden couldn't win with some of the decimated crews we've trotted out there.
It's gonna be fun SON!!
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I agree with you guys. We may have more questions than the average team, but we have a lot of talent on this team and Pitino will lead them to the tournament.


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This is a fun thread to review! Optimism is great to have again...some thoughts:
If healthy, Coffey and Murphy all conference players. (Must win 50% of league games with two all conference players)
IW not as good as Mason at this point. (Hard to say going into the season this is an upgrade, especially without true backup)
Love the addition of Curry back into the rotation, he was missed greatly last season. (But not level of DPOY returning last year)
McB has proven he can play at this level, but can he be consistent and help the team win EVERY night? (Needs to play like a veteran)
These 5 are not as good as last years starting 5, but that group was pretty darn good before chaos set in...so potential is there.

The others:
Hurt will be better than last year (experience and drive will make him continue to push in off season)
Stull should be better than Harris, and provide experience and need for shooting (not sure he will bring A. Springs energy and impact though)
3 incoming freshman provide length, athleticism, and energy (that alone is a positive, probably like Curry did as a freshman in the frontline)
Stockman, I have no idea, never seen him play
Ineligible transfers provide depth, competition, and hopefully maturity to practice (definitely a positive if approach is correct)

Put that together and it could be a fun year, but really hard to say tourney team with Pitino at the helm. This roster should be a tourney team if PG position is solid, but Pitino has not proven he can adjust and tweak his system (which I'm not sure what his system is) with the talent he has. He won NIT with previous talent, and he got to NCAA with a strong group of talent but was embarrassed in tourney by superior coach. If they stay healthy, this is the 'true test' season for Pitino. Mixture of young talent, established veterans, and a team that should be VERY hungry after embarrassing second half of the season.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Brad Stevens is almost certainly taking his team to the NBA Finals - with his two best players missing. Great coaches deal with imperfect situations and win anyway. It's not a solid example.
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My point was that Brad Stevens is a better coach than Richard. And while Richard contributed to the Gopher roster problems, with the available talent on some of the teams Richard has been left with it'd be tough for anyone to have success. Good coaches absolutely make flawed teams play beyond their perceived ceiling. Richard imo did that year one. And to a degree in the NCAA year until the tournament. We don't know all that goes on beyond a coaches control and the health of guys even on the floor...but yes, I was disappointed in Richard's coaching of the available roster...but only to a degree and mid season more than the finish.

Right now, I have heard unanimous comments from "analysts" that Boston clearly has a better roster than Cleveland. To your point, if Brad Stevens coached Philadelphia they'd probably be playing the Cavaliers.

My overall point was, there are better coaches than Richard. I think Richard can coach with a 7 or 8 deep roster which the above two teams had and not the other Gopher teams. Therefore, I believe the Gophers will be good next year.

Also, it's really hard to win at higher levels no matter who is the coach with only two good players and bodies for the balance of the roster. Celtics have more than bodies beyond two guys...Cavaliers arguable. Yes, some of the guys on the Cavaliers have had previous success so it brings up another question. If Brad Stevens coached the Cavaliers and somehow Lue even got to this point coaching the Celtics...would the Cavs beat the Celtics? I'd obviously conclude Brad Stevens wins no matter which team he coaches. There's more talent on any NBA roster than on a poor college team versus a good one...more parts to play with.
 

My goodness, the pessimism on this board is ridiculous. Having an optimistic viewpoint can be a fun thing sometimes people.
 

In 2017 this team was the 2nd highest B1G seed in the NCAA tournament.

Going into 2017-18 this team was universally considered a top-3 B1G team, along with MSU and Purdue.

People sure have short memories. We lost Mason and Lynch but there still is a lot of talent left on this team, and a lot of talent added to this team. We have 2 all-conf caliber players, a bunch of 4-stars, and almost everyone on the roster now was a top-150 recruit. I think we could finish anywhere between 1st and 10th in the conference, though, with all the crazy variables of a given season. Stay healthy and eligible, and we're as good as anyone in the B1G. Take away 4 of our top 6 players like last year, though, and yeah we're going to struggle again.
 

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