Sid: Fleck "We have nine total scholarship seniors, which is not a lot."

BleedGopher

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per Sid's jottings:

• Gophers football coach P.J. Fleck said that while the team will have more depth this year, that doesn’t mean it will have more experience. “We have nine total scholarship seniors, which is not a lot. We have to rely on our youth, our inexperience, and our depth is going to be full of young guys to really provide that type of boost for us.”

• Fleck has 11 verbal commitments for the Class of 2019, a class that ranks No. 15 in the country, according to 247sports.com. That’s third in the Big Ten behind Michigan (No. 8) and Ohio State (No. 9).

• Fleck talked about how the Gophers need to get more players into the NFL, noting they have had only 13 picks over the past 13 drafts: “We have to up that. That’s one of the reasons I came here. We haven’t had an offensive lineman drafted in 12 years."

http://www.startribune.com/twins-pa...rson-have-had-a-lasting-friendship/482463541/

Go Gophers!!
 

PJ's self serving woe is me, really wears on me. Here is the deal: Prior to the arrival of PJ, the previous 4 FOUR Gopher football seasons, we were one win short of averaging 8 wins per season... 31 wins versus 32 wins in this time period to exactly average 8 wins per season for four years. We achieved a string of 5 straight bowl appearances!! Yes, No argument, we are greedy...we all would have liked more wins and better bowls.

But then PJ comes in and continually tells us how bad we were. No PJ. We went to 5 straight bowls! We averaged 8 wins per season for four years. Then you arrive and win 5 games and break our 5 game consecutive bowl streak.

Keep telling us how bad we are so you get a longer contract to continue to make 5 times the money of the coach you replaced and win half as many games.

Please shut up about how bad we are and focus how good we will be under your elite leadership. You get what you emphasize in coaching. Constantly telling anyone who will listen how bad we are insures we will be bad going forward. Tell me how good we will be this year. If it turns out we are bad....Failure is growth. But at least we'd be able to hear optimism for 12 months versus your BS how bad the program was. Wrong!!
 

PJ's self serving woe is me, really wears on me. Here is the deal: Prior to the arrival of PJ, the previous 4 FOUR Gopher football seasons, we were one win short of averaging 8 wins per season... 31 wins versus 32 wins in this time period to exactly average 8 wins per season for four years. We achieved a string of 5 straight bowl appearances!! Yes, No argument, we are greedy...we all would have liked more wins and better bowls.

But then PJ comes in and continually tells us how bad we were. No PJ. We went to 5 straight bowls! We averaged 8 wins per season for four years. Then you arrive and win 5 games and break our 5 game consecutive bowl streak.

Keep telling us how bad we are so you get a longer contract to continue to make 5 times the money of the coach you replaced and win half as many games.

Please shut up about how bad we are and focus how good we will be under your elite leadership. You get what you emphasize in coaching. Constantly telling anyone who will listen how bad we are insures we will be bad going forward. Tell me how good we will be this year. If it turns out we are bad....Failure is growth. But at least we'd be able to hear optimism for 12 months versus your BS how bad the program was. Wrong!!

I believe where PJ is going with the mention of the NFL is the fact that he continually loses out on recruits who are seduced by schools with better NFL pipelines. These kids want to go pro and the U of MN is not where you go to become an NFL player...that's a fact. PJ wants us to stop being content with crappy bowls and 8 win seasons...he wants more than that and for that to occur you need better caliber recruits to start with. Currently PJ is selling a vision and his energy. If you add NFL draft choices to his energy and vision you suddenly start beating Notre Dame, WI, and other P5 team for the 4 and 5 star players. You can 'coach 'em up' all you like but if you start with a 5-star versus a 2-star you don't have so far to go.

PJ is daring to dream big and I think he's sincere in his belief that we are capable of reaching heights that we haven't seen in my lifetime. I truly believe he thinks it's possible and I'm on board with it. College football dominance starts with better recruits and until we see more players in the NFL, MN will be a step behind nearly every other P5 school in the nation.
 

PJ's self serving woe is me, really wears on me. Here is the deal: Prior to the arrival of PJ, the previous 4 FOUR Gopher football seasons, we were one win short of averaging 8 wins per season... 31 wins versus 32 wins in this time period to exactly average 8 wins per season for four years. We achieved a string of 5 straight bowl appearances!! Yes, No argument, we are greedy...we all would have liked more wins and better bowls.

But then PJ comes in and continually tells us how bad we were. No PJ. We went to 5 straight bowls! We averaged 8 wins per season for four years. Then you arrive and win 5 games and break our 5 game consecutive bowl streak.

Keep telling us how bad we are so you get a longer contract to continue to make 5 times the money of the coach you replaced and win half as many games.

Please shut up about how bad we are and focus how good we will be under your elite leadership. You get what you emphasize in coaching. Constantly telling anyone who will listen how bad we are insures we will be bad going forward. Tell me how good we will be this year. If it turns out we are bad....Failure is growth. But at least we'd be able to hear optimism for 12 months versus your BS how bad the program was. Wrong!!

Yet I didn't see him mention once 'how bad we were'.
 

Coaches across the country repeatedly report the same way as we've seen Fleck do. I think Hotz was the worse however. I wouldn't let these type of comments get to you. Yes 8 wins at times, but were we satisfy with the quality of play when playing the big boys?
 


I don't know how anyone can win with 9 seniors.
That's awful recruiting.
How's our junior class looking?
 

I don't know how anyone can win with 9 seniors.
That's awful recruiting.
How's our junior class looking?

There's 13 SRs, including redshirts. 13 RS JRs alone, who would be SRs. It's easy to have the narrative you want by cherry-picking qualifiers.
 

"We have nine total scholarship seniors..." = Fleck saying how bad we were before he showed up?
 

Example 1,862 why I don't worry too much one way or another what a coach says. Do we even know the question(s) that were asked to get these answers.
 



PJ's self serving woe is me, really wears on me. Here is the deal: Prior to the arrival of PJ, the previous 4 FOUR Gopher football seasons, we were one win short of averaging 8 wins per season... 31 wins versus 32 wins in this time period to exactly average 8 wins per season for four years. We achieved a string of 5 straight bowl appearances!! Yes, No argument, we are greedy...we all would have liked more wins and better bowls.

But then PJ comes in and continually tells us how bad we were. No PJ. We went to 5 straight bowls! We averaged 8 wins per season for four years. Then you arrive and win 5 games and break our 5 game consecutive bowl streak.

Keep telling us how bad we are so you get a longer contract to continue to make 5 times the money of the coach you replaced and win half as many games.

Please shut up about how bad we are and focus how good we will be under your elite leadership. You get what you emphasize in coaching. Constantly telling anyone who will listen how bad we are insures we will be bad going forward. Tell me how good we will be this year. If it turns out we are bad....Failure is growth. But at least we'd be able to hear optimism for 12 months versus your BS how bad the program was. Wrong!!

Coach speak is what a lot of coaches say. I don't pay attention to that. What I pay attention to is that our recruiting has gotten better. We just need to sit back and let him execute his vision the next three to five years.

It takes time. What it seems like is that you want instant perfection which you are not going to get unless Nick Saban suddenly decides he wants to make MN a winner. There is no chance in h#$$ that is going to happen.
 


Obviously, there are lots of sides to the process. He is attracting higher rated recruits. Yay! But how would you like to be a senior last year and listen to the hopelessness and despair every day? Or, one of the 9 seniors this year....wondering if you are one of the guys he isn't even counting? And still be really happy for the guys who play in 2019 because then PJ says we'll be better...until he pushes it out to 2020.

Mr Energy, Mr Positivity could tell us how excited he is to have the best running back in the Big Ten? It's May. He is pretty good? He could tell us about the best quarterbacks in the last 25 years. None of them have played. Who can argue? How well, do they have to play to be in the conversation? Maybe they just might become what he talked about...play to an elite level? He could tell us about the best Gopher wide receiver group since Eric Decker. One of these guys could step up and become Eric Decker but I know this...this is the best group of wide receivers Minnesota has had in 25 years. We got a bunch of guys who can play!!! It's exciting! I can't wait for August to start coaching these guys! Do you realize how much competition we have in practice? We have the two best recruiting classes in a long time for Gopher football. We're gonna be good.

Anything along those lines is off limits? It'll totally destroy recruiting? It'll give the team big heads, they won't be inspired to work hard? They'll automatically think it's now 2020? We are not Alabama yet. We need some confidence. We need to hear from the coach we're going to be good this year.

He can spin it 100 ways if we fall short and still be optimistic we are getting better.



Is that kinda talk going to sour the guys he's recruiting? Or do his two recruiting classes like hearing we aren't quite good enough yet to contemplate winning. Too soon. Wait! Wait! Patience....I need more time to get this done.
 

Coach speak is what a lot of coaches say. I don't pay attention to that. What I pay attention to is that our recruiting has gotten better. We just need to sit back and let him execute his vision the next three to five years.

It takes time. What it seems like is that you want instant perfection which you are not going to get unless Nick Saban suddenly decides he wants to make MN a winner. There is no chance in h#$$ that is going to happen.

We ALL understand it takes time. All I hear from PJ is not now....I need 3 maybe 4 years before you can start to evaluate our program. We are now in year one. On his timetable he will have $14 million dollars plus another contract extension before anyone argues he's smoke and mirrors. If he is in over his head he bought 3 free years before anybody even thinks of holding him accountable.

He had an awesome season at WMU. Nothing I saw last year tells me it's repeatable. Nothing I hear this year tells me it'll be different than 5 wins again. That's one side. Then he had a great recruiting class last year and is assembling another one this year. Definitely, another factor and reason for optimism but not a guaranty. He has not landed a quarterback in three classes that anybody else was upset they lost. Vic was a LB when he was highly sought after by the Michigan's of the world.

I'd just like to hear less about his reasons why we are not going to win anytime soon. Tell me you are a miracle worker and we are going to win now. Believe in yourself, your coaching ability. The vision of becoming Alabama, the vision of needing to expand seating capacity is a long ways away...They are so many steps that need to happen to achieve that...like winning more than we lose this year. "6 head coaches in 8 years" equals, Just keep paying me and we'll get this done. I have a dream. How long until it's don't tell me...show me?
 




How short memories seem to be. Check out Kill's assessment of the team's experience/depth his first couple of years.
 

We ALL understand it takes time. All I hear from PJ is not now....I need 3 maybe 4 years before you can start to evaluate our program. We are now in year one. On his timetable he will have $14 million dollars plus another contract extension before anyone argues he's smoke and mirrors. If he is in over his head he bought 3 free years before anybody even thinks of holding him accountable.

He had an awesome season at WMU. Nothing I saw last year tells me it's repeatable. Nothing I hear this year tells me it'll be different than 5 wins again. That's one side. Then he had a great recruiting class last year and is assembling another one this year. Definitely, another factor and reason for optimism but not a guaranty. He has not landed a quarterback in three classes that anybody else was upset they lost. Vic was a LB when he was highly sought after by the Michigan's of the world.

I'd just like to hear less about his reasons why we are not going to win anytime soon. Tell me you are a miracle worker and we are going to win now. Believe in yourself, your coaching ability. The vision of becoming Alabama, the vision of needing to expand seating capacity is a long ways away...They are so many steps that need to happen to achieve that...like winning more than we lose this year. "6 head coaches in 8 years" equals, Just keep paying me and we'll get this done. I have a dream. How long until it's don't tell me...show me?


Refresh my memory, was it Kill who got an the extension after one season on payroll because he said it would take longer than expected?

Yep, I guess so.

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...rs-coach-jerry-kill-signs-seven-year-contract

Within two years of narrowly losing to WI by three, he assessed the program was so bad he needed 7 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota–Wisconsin_football_rivalry


Perhaps since we've been routinely losing to WI by double digits since he took over, Fleck can bargain for 14 years.
 

Only 9 seniors is on Fleck. He made that bed.

I completely agree.

That said, was running players off because he didn't like them, they didn't have the skill for his system, or the skill period the right thing to do? Yes. He's the coach. While I dislike treating kids whose only sin was to accept an offered scholarship the way some have been treated, in the end, it probably more fair to everyone involved.

Is constantly bringing it up disingenuous? Youbetcha.

He's the coach. He makes the decisions. Live with them, move on and show us what you can do.
 

I completely agree.

That said, was running players off because he didn't like them, they didn't have the skill for his system, or the skill period the right thing to do? Yes. He's the coach. While I dislike treating kids whose only sin was to accept an offered scholarship the way some have been treated, in the end, it probably more fair to everyone involved.

Is constantly bringing it up disingenuous? Youbetcha.

He's the coach. He makes the decisions. Live with them, move on and show us what you can do.

Which players did he 'run off' ended up at an equal or better school than Minnesota? None of them. But he ran off so much talent because of his system... :rolleyes:

The Gophers do only have 9 scholarship SRs on offense/defense. I guess we should drastically increase our expectations based on a scholarship long snapper and kicker.
 

Which players did he 'run off' ended up at an equal or better school than Minnesota? None of them. But he ran off so much talent because of his system... :rolleyes:

The Gophers do only have 9 scholarship SRs on offense/defense. I guess we should drastically increase our expectations based on a scholarship long snapper and kicker.

Really anxious to see how these players PJ supposedly ran off will contribute to conference titles elsewhere, not to mention see where they get drafted in the NFL draft someday.
 

Really anxious to see how these players PJ supposedly ran off will contribute to conference titles elsewhere, not to mention see where they get drafted in the NFL draft someday.

Winning a conference championship at Middle Tennessee isn't exactly transitive to a B1G trophy
 

Which players did he 'run off' ended up at an equal or better school than Minnesota? None of them. But he ran off so much talent because of his system... :rolleyes:

The Gophers do only have 9 scholarship SRs on offense/defense. I guess we should drastically increase our expectations based on a scholarship long snapper and kicker.

Yeah, I'm not even sure why they are on the team? How important can they be? Oh wait, remember our very first recruit in the 2019 class? You know the walk on long snapper...oh wait...he was so important to PJ he offered him a scholarship before anyone else on his list. So, see they are important to PJ.
Oh wait, PJ says the ones that are already here, they don't count. Doggone kicker missed some kicks last year for me after being All Big Ten for the other coach... I won't even count him... He's no longer important.
That how it works in the PJ culture handbook...exclude the special teams guys? Everybody rows except the special team guys? Could be in there....it changes...hard to know.
I mean you get 85 but some don't count. "We are recruiting 23, 24 guys next year" Do the 14,15 guys who won't be on scholarship next year know who they are?
 

Really anxious to see how these players PJ supposedly ran off will contribute to conference titles elsewhere, not to mention see where they get drafted in the NFL draft someday.

Except, that's not why PJ is here. He's here to teach culture, raise good citizens, mold good family men. Teach them the Farmers Alliance...lead by example. It's not just football...it's academically, spiritually, socially that these men demonstrate their value to the community.
 

Yeah, I'm not even sure why they are on the team? How important can they be? Oh wait, remember our very first recruit in the 2019 class? You know the walk on long snapper...oh wait...he was so important to PJ he offered him a scholarship before anyone else on his list. So, see they are important to PJ.
Oh wait, PJ says the ones that are already here, they don't count. Doggone kicker missed some kicks last year for me after being All Big Ten for the other coach... I won't even count him... He's no longer important.
That how it works in the PJ culture handbook...exclude the special teams guys? Everybody rows except the special team guys? Could be in there....it changes...hard to know.
I mean you get 85 but some don't count. "We are recruiting 23, 24 guys next year" Do the 14,15 guys who won't be on scholarship next year know who they are?

The kicker and long snapper are really only important in close games. That would be roughly half of the games last year. Players on offense/defense have an impact on every game.

As for the 2nd half of your blathering post, I have no idea what you're talking about.
 

Really anxious to see how these players PJ supposedly ran off will contribute to conference titles elsewhere, not to mention see where they get drafted in the NFL draft someday.

We lost so much FCS talent. We most assuredly would have finished higher than our average 4.5 place finish in the B1G west under the previous regime, had we not ran them all off.
 


Really anxious to see how these players PJ supposedly ran off will contribute to conference titles elsewhere, not to mention see where they get drafted in the NFL draft someday.
You're argument is a red herring. PJ got rid of the players. He can stop whining about the number of seniors he got rid of as though the loss of seniors is the reason MN football will be bottom dwelling in 2018. This years record is entirely on Fleck. He has no one else to blame.
 

PJ's self serving woe is me, really wears on me. Here is the deal: Prior to the arrival of PJ, the previous 4 FOUR Gopher football seasons, we were one win short of averaging 8 wins per season... 31 wins versus 32 wins in this time period to exactly average 8 wins per season for four years. We achieved a string of 5 straight bowl appearances!! Yes, No argument, we are greedy...we all would have liked more wins and better bowls.

But then PJ comes in and continually tells us how bad we were. No PJ. We went to 5 straight bowls! We averaged 8 wins per season for four years. Then you arrive and win 5 games and break our 5 game consecutive bowl streak.

Keep telling us how bad we are so you get a longer contract to continue to make 5 times the money of the coach you replaced and win half as many games.

Please shut up about how bad we are and focus how good we will be under your elite leadership. You get what you emphasize in coaching. Constantly telling anyone who will listen how bad we are insures we will be bad going forward. Tell me how good we will be this year. If it turns out we are bad....Failure is growth. But at least we'd be able to hear optimism for 12 months versus your BS how bad the program was. Wrong!!

I didn't read it that way...
 

Or perhaps he shouldn't have run kids off the team...

Still waiting to read the names of those kids he ran off. Please don’t list those kids who transferred because of playing time. They left because they put their individual goals ahead of the team goals. Which speaks volumes of the type of teammate they were. Sad
 

Yeah, I'm not even sure why they are on the team? How important can they be? Oh wait, remember our very first recruit in the 2019 class? You know the walk on long snapper...oh wait...he was so important to PJ he offered him a scholarship before anyone else on his list. So, see they are important to PJ.
Oh wait, PJ says the ones that are already here, they don't count. Doggone kicker missed some kicks last year for me after being All Big Ten for the other coach... I won't even count him... He's no longer important.
That how it works in the PJ culture handbook...exclude the special teams guys? Everybody rows except the special team guys? Could be in there....it changes...hard to know.
I mean you get 85 but some don't count. "We are recruiting 23, 24 guys next year" Do the 14,15 guys who won't be on scholarship next year know who they are?

You're a frick'n idiot if you actually believe a PJ goes around and alienates or ignores special teams players or redshirts or seniors. If I had to bet though--you actually believe.
 

Still waiting to read the names of those kids he ran off. Please don’t list those kids who transferred because of playing time. They left because they put their individual goals ahead of the team goals. Which speaks volumes of the type of teammate they were. Sad
You drink the Kool-Aid. That's your right. Fleck is 100% responsible for this year's squad and the fact that there are only 9 seniors. He can't blame anyone else. He should just shut up and coach. Win or lose with what you have, but stop making excuses.
 




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