Can the Gophers replicate Wisconsin's system?

pk2

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From Stewart Mandel's mailbag at theathletic.com

Since it's a pay site, and I've seen comments on GH along the lines of "couldn't read that," I won't post the link (OK, I will: https://theathletic.com/347497/2018...ilbag-preseason-hype-stanford-michigan-state/), but instead (OK, in addition), paste the entire question and answer.

Wisconsin has a history of being able to take walk-ons and low-level recruits and develop them into NFL Draft prospects. How can other schools with similar resources (Minnesota, Illinois) try to replicate its system?

- Victor B.

A: I don’t think that’s an easy thing to replicate. Wisconsin has been doing it for nearly 30 years dating to Barry Alvarez’s arrival, and he modeled his program after his alma mater, Nebraska, which set the gold standard for walk-ons long before Wisconsin before seeing it fade since the turn of the century.

The common thread at both schools is they’re the only FBS programs in football-crazed states. Kids in those states grow up dreaming of playing for the Huskers and Badgers, so they’re perhaps more open to walking on there rather than taking scholarships at lower-rung programs. And Wisconsin has had so many walk-ons have success at this point that it becomes a selling point with each subsequent class.

Neither Minnesota nor Illinois holds that same kind of undying loyalty with recruits in their state, and neither has the recent track record of producing walk-ons who went on to make millions in the NFL, so you’d pretty much be trying to invent a tradition from scratch.

That being said, P.J. Fleck has mastered the art of heavily produced surprise scholarship announcements for walk-ons. He signed 11 preferred walk-ons in the 2018 class. That’s a big number. You can see where that could in fact become a key element of his Minnesota program.

But the school where you’re most likely to see a lot of impact from walk-ons over the next few years is … Nebraska, where Scott Frost has made it a point since his introductory news conference that the Huskers will be returning to their walk-on roots. He announced a whopping 17 walk-on signees in February, with plans to bring that number even higher by August.
 

Walk-ons are going to be critical to the Gopher's success. PJ realizes that with the quality walk-ons that he's secured so far.
 

I sure hope not. They don't have 7 national titles. Go Gophers!


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I think a better question to ask is "Can the Gophers create their own system to surpass Wisconsin's system?"
 

This thread has a very misleading title.

And ... why do we assume that Wisconsin’s walk-ons and supposedly “underecruited” players out-develop the P5 norm. The guys asking the question doesn’t even bother to offer any anecdotal evidence that it is true.

I have no doubt the premise is right. But even if they do, it is unlikely it has a single thing to do with their “system” and a whole of a lot more to do with unique circumstance. Wisconsin is the 20th largest state. And with only 1 D1 program (and no D2), is near the bottom in-terms of available scholarships.

Now that Wisconsin is recruiting nationally, only a couple guys in the state get a shot at a football scholarship. The rest get to walk-on for the Badgers (or leave the state completely). It’s an ideal situation for UW.
 


It may be the puppet master Alvarez has an eye for talent and is still heavily involved with green lighting recruits. They've had an incredible run of developing unheralded talent. Perhaps our long and collective nightmare with Wisconsin will end when BA finally slithers into the sunset.
 



This thread has a very misleading title.

How is it misleading?

The title is, "Can the Gophers replicate Wisconsin's system?"

The question that was asked is, "How can other schools with similar resources (Minnesota, Illinois) try to replicate its system?"

Please let me know how I can make the next title I post (assuming there is one) less misleading for you. I'd be happy to try to help.
 



It may be the puppet master Alvarez has an eye for talent and is still heavily involved with green lighting recruits. They've had an incredible run of developing unheralded talent. Perhaps our long and collective nightmare with Wisconsin will end when BA finally slithers into the sunset.

I'd prefer Barry stays until he's a 100 trying to reverse the trend of the Gophers winning 19 outta 20 versus the Badgers. It all starts in 2019. Believe it. We're comin'
 

I'd prefer Barry stays until he's a 100 trying to reverse the trend of the Gophers winning 19 outta 20 versus the Badgers. It all starts in 2019. Believe it. We're comin'

Well, that would make it all the sweeter to see BA’s droopy face on the sidelines.
 

You cannot have an unlimited number of Waltons on your team. Some years you will have more some less.
 




Kids in those states grow up dreaming of playing for the Huskers and Badgers, so they’re perhaps more open to walking on there rather than taking scholarships at lower-rung programs.

Wisconsin did not really come to national relevance until the early to mid 1990's...did they forget where the Wisconsin program was prior to Alvarez arriving in 1990??

In Minnesota, we are never going to be successful unless there is some continuity and consistency amongst the coaching staff and administration. Minnesota definitely has upgraded the athletic budget and facilities.

I think we were on the verge of success with Mason but just couldn't get over the hump and take that next step. The Brewster hire did not help matters either and Kill essentially re-built the program. In his first 15 months, Fleck has done a very good job recruiting, now he needs to continue that and carry it over onto the field and get some wins. Can no longer use facilities as an excuse.
 

Someone remind me how the 105 roster spots works. Can the 105 spots change throughout the season? Are you able to practice or be around the team at all if you aren't on the 105 man roster?
 

Kids in those states grow up dreaming of playing for the Huskers and Badgers, so they’re perhaps more open to walking on there rather than taking scholarships at lower-rung programs.

Wisconsin did not really come to national relevance until the early to mid 1990's...did they forget where the Wisconsin program was prior to Alvarez arriving in 1990??

In Minnesota, we are never going to be successful unless there is some continuity and consistency amongst the coaching staff and administration. Minnesota definitely has upgraded the athletic budget and facilities.

I think we were on the verge of success with Mason but just couldn't get over the hump and take that next step. The Brewster hire did not help matters either and Kill essentially re-built the program. In his first 15 months, Fleck has done a very good job recruiting, now he needs to continue that and carry it over onto the field and get some wins. Can no longer use facilities as an excuse.

They didn't forget, they have never known any different. Kids born in 1990 are almost 30 now. All they have known of the Badger program is a perennial top-25 team
 

My first recollection of a Wisconsin game that I watched was the 1962 Rose Bowl against USC One of the classics that we lost 42-37. Things then went silent for a long time. There wasn't a lot of TV games back then for Mediocre teams and the hype was not near what it is today. We grew up listening to games on the radio, Same announcers as the Milwaukee Braves had, also radio. We didn't lose faith over those crappy years. It wasn't until the early 80's when Dave McClain got things going..unfortunately he died after a few years and it was back to the Abyss. It wasn't until Donna Shalala came to UW. She hired Pat Richter - A Star from the aforementioned 62 Rose Bowl. He then Hired Barry Alvarez. We took our lumps for a few years then it was full speed ahead and Wisconsin has not looked back. Every School has its own path to take. We can't be OSU and you can't be Wisconsin.
 

My first recollection of a Wisconsin game that I watched was the 1962 Rose Bowl against USC One of the classics that we lost 42-37. Things then went silent for a long time. There wasn't a lot of TV games back then for Mediocre teams and the hype was not near what it is today. We grew up listening to games on the radio, Same announcers as the Milwaukee Braves had, also radio. We didn't lose faith over those crappy years. It wasn't until the early 80's when Dave McClain got things going..unfortunately he died after a few years and it was back to the Abyss. It wasn't until Donna Shalala came to UW. She hired Pat Richter - A Star from the aforementioned 62 Rose Bowl. He then Hired Barry Alvarez. We took our lumps for a few years then it was full speed ahead and Wisconsin has not looked back. Every School has its own path to take. We can't be OSU and you can't be Wisconsin.

Exactly. (I'm not even going to make mention of the Gopher/Badger game on November 24th, 1962. I'm in the process of letting it go.)
 

My first recollection of a Wisconsin game that I watched was the 1962 Rose Bowl against USC One of the classics that we lost 42-37. Things then went silent for a long time. There wasn't a lot of TV games back then for Mediocre teams and the hype was not near what it is today. We grew up listening to games on the radio, Same announcers as the Milwaukee Braves had, also radio. We didn't lose faith over those crappy years. It wasn't until the early 80's when Dave McClain got things going..unfortunately he died after a few years and it was back to the Abyss. It wasn't until Donna Shalala came to UW. She hired Pat Richter - A Star from the aforementioned 62 Rose Bowl. He then Hired Barry Alvarez. We took our lumps for a few years then it was full speed ahead and Wisconsin has not looked back. Every School has its own path to take. We can't be OSU and you can't be Wisconsin.

After my first Gopher game in 1975, my first memory of Wisconsin is the game in 1977 in Memorial Stadium. I was there as a young man and the Gophers won 13-7. This was well after the glory years of Gopher football but we were competitive with Cal Stoll as head coach in the early to mid 70's. Back then it was not a big deal to beat the Badgers. It was sort of Ho-Hum. I consider those days to be my formative years with Gopher football for sure so to me this current version of Wisconsin is not as established as the Big 2 (MI and OSU) was back then or Nebraska was at that time. Watching MI, OSU, NE in those days, it was clear we were seeing some of the Blue Bloods of College Football. When Ohio State visited it was crazy. They just had amazing players. Michigan had Bo Schembechler and Rick Leach, and the Badgers sucked. Yes, the Badgers are very good now and also in my mind close to what Nebraska had in the 70's but then there is that pesky empty National Championship trophy case. Clearly, WI is not blue blood status. So in my estimation, with some hard work and some luck, we can return to what the Gophers had in the glory years. Not the same as Wisconsin but better than Wisconsin. Using a bit of logical thinking, I don't see any reason why we can't compete for the Big Ten title in the next 10 years.
 


How is it misleading?

The title is, "Can the Gophers replicate Wisconsin's system?"

The question that was asked is, "How can other schools with similar resources (Minnesota, Illinois) try to replicate its system?"

Please let me know how I can make the next title I post (assuming there is one) less misleading for you. I'd be happy to try to help.

The thread is about their “player development system”. Though nothing in the OP actually says so. “System” usually refers to and offense (or, less often, a defense). And WI has a traditional nationally notable rush-oriented offense. So I thought this would be a thread about that. And I bet most people did too. (I’ve heard no one ever mention anything about their player-development being out-of-the-ordinary.)

Anyway... the premise of the guy’s question just assumes WI is having unusual success with player development. But the facts suggest (if they are having such success with developing under-recruited players) that they are just the beneficiary of being located in an area with an unusual dearth of football scholarships.
 

How is it misleading?n

The title is, "Can the Gophers replicate Wisconsin's system?"

The question that was asked is, "How can other schools with similar resources (Minnesota, Illinois) try to replicate its system?"

Please let me know how I can make the next title I post (assuming there is one) less misleading for you. I'd be happy to try to help.

Just ignore. Some people think everyone on this board should be a professional copy editor and that the title should spell out what they believe is the meat of the article.

If they cannot find it in themselves to move along and find another thread to read without calling out the OP...well just goes to show that haters going to be haters.

I think your title was fine.
 

The thread is about their “player development system”. Though nothing in the OP actually says so. “System” usually refers to and offense (or, less often, a defense). And WI has a traditional nationally notable rush-oriented offense. So I thought this would be a thread about that. And I bet most people did too. (I’ve heard no one ever mention anything about their player-development being out-of-the-ordinary.)

Anyway... the premise of the guy’s question just assumes WI is having unusual success with player development. But the facts suggest (if they are having such success with developing under-recruited players) that they are just the beneficiary of being located in an area with an unusual dearth of football scholarships.

As much as it pains me to say anything positive about the Badgers they do have a history of putting underrecruited guys into the NFL. I saw a blurb they had 9 former walk-ons in the NFL last year and that number is certainly much higher higher if going back to the 90s. How does that happen? Some coaches have an eye for talent, some of it’s luck, and some is going out and convincing lower tier but late blooming players to take a risk and walk on eg JJ Watt. Ultimately it all starts with autocrat Barry handpicking his coaching staffs and installing and nursing a system that works with and for developing relatively low-rated high school talent. He is the one common denominator.

Does MN have any former walk ones in the NFL? Past or present?
 

As much as it pains me to say anything positive about the Badgers they do have a history of putting underrecruited guys into the NFL. I saw a blurb they had 9 former walk-ons in the NFL last year and that number is certainly much higher higher if going back to the 90s. How does that happen? Some coaches have an eye for talent, some of it’s luck, and some is going out and convincing lower tier but late blooming players to take a risk and walk on eg JJ Watt. Ultimately it all starts with autocrat Barry handpicking his coaching staffs and installing and nursing a system that works with and for developing relatively low-rated high school talent. He is the one common denominator.

Does MN have any former walk ones in the NFL? Past or present?

none. now i did 0 research but i am 100% confident. WI/NW/MSU/Purdue even IL for short time are the benefactors of the parity of college football changing the scholarship program and the huge growth in football talent coming from 50 states instead of the state within which you reside. so many variables but what WI is in football is pretty much the best of the losers of the Big Ten.....it's where we are. I would have made my own post but im new here and did not see how.
 

As much as it pains me to say anything positive about the Badgers they do have a history of putting underrecruited guys into the NFL. I saw a blurb they had 9 former walk-ons in the NFL last year and that number is certainly much higher higher if going back to the 90s. How does that happen? Some coaches have an eye for talent, some of it’s luck, and some is going out and convincing lower tier but late blooming players to take a risk and walk on eg JJ Watt. Ultimately it all starts with autocrat Barry handpicking his coaching staffs and installing and nursing a system that works with and for developing relatively low-rated high school talent. He is the one common denominator.

Does MN have any former walk ones in the NFL? Past or present?

Marcus Sherels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Walk-ons are going to be critical to the Gopher's success. PJ realizes that with the quality walk-ons that he's secured so far.
The difference is that Minnesota has D2 schools. Instead of walking on at Minnesota the reasonably good players get partial rides at UMD, Mankato, etc. instead of walking on at the big show. Some of these guys turn out to be pretty good. It's tough to turn down - college is expensive, and if you want to play...
 



As much as it pains me to say anything positive about the Badgers they do have a history of putting underrecruited guys into the NFL. I saw a blurb they had 9 former walk-ons in the NFL last year and that number is certainly much higher higher if going back to the 90s. How does that happen? Some coaches have an eye for talent, some of it’s luck, and some is going out and convincing lower tier but late blooming players to take a risk and walk on eg JJ Watt. Ultimately it all starts with autocrat Barry handpicking his coaching staffs and installing and nursing a system that works with and for developing relatively low-rated high school talent. He is the one common denominator.

Does MN have any former walk ones in the NFL? Past or present?


Well we did offer JJ Watt a scholarship.
 




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