ELITE Culture Thoughts/Ramblings

PoockItInfor6

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One thing I do want to point out for any that are not aware (my wife teaches at the U) is that our student athletes do the things that PJ preaches in the classroom: They sit in the front row, they pay attention, they don’t mess around on their phones... The kids we are getting seem to be disciplined (much more so than I am), respectful, good human beings that I am proud to have represent our school and state (this includes players from the previous regime that have bought into PJs vision). I liked the lunch pail mentality that Kill brought, I appreciated Sawvel and Claeys’ ability to coach kids up, but I believe there was a ceiling to where they could have built our program to, and with PJ that ceiling is a national championship. I believe PJ is the best recruiter we’ve had in my lifetime, and I’m excited to see just where this boat goes!
 

That elementary education teaching degree comes in handy. He'll mold and teach his players into becoming fundamentally outstanding men. He teaches the kids how to treat women respectfully among other things, and reinforces good values.

The co-captainship among the players only reinforces the cultural values. We can say all we want about his ELITE HYPRR culture. If it works in the classroom, in the community, and in the playing field I am all for it.
 

That elementary education teaching degree comes in handy. He'll mold and teach his players into becoming fundamentally outstanding men. He teaches the kids how to treat women respectfully among other things, and reinforces good values.

The co-captainship among the players only reinforces the cultural values. We can say all we want about his ELITE HYPRR culture. If it works in the classroom, in the community, and in the playing field I am all for it.

"...saying is not believing..." "Seeing is believing..." I believe what I see...long before I believe what is said. Time will tell. Good luck to all. Beat the stinking badger, GOPHER! Seeing what the 2018 season shows is much more important to the record book than saying what the 2018 season may show in the record book. It takes a while of seeing the culture to know if the culture is what it is said to be.
 

"...saying is not believing..." "Seeing is believing..." I believe what I see...long before I believe what is said. Time will tell. Good luck to all. Beat the stinking badger, GOPHER! Seeing what the 2018 season shows is much more important to the record book than saying what the 2018 season may show in the record book. It takes a while of seeing the culture to know if the culture is what it is said to be.

Are you on a seefood diet? That's all good. :drink:
 

"...saying is not believing..." "Seeing is believing..." I believe what I see...long before I believe what is said. Time will tell. Good luck to all. Beat the stinking badger, GOPHER! Seeing what the 2018 season shows is much more important to the record book than saying what the 2018 season may show in the record book. It takes a while of seeing the culture to know if the culture is what it is said to be.
Says the poster who says things over and over.... Glad you know that saying something over and over does not make it true
 


It's good to hear that these changes are being seen on campus and recognized by people outside of the football program.
It's a step in the direction of PJ delivering on some of the things he preaches.
Off the field is important. Football fans will want to see the same delivery with on the field performance.
 

(almost) every program in American talks about having players who are good citizens, go to class, are active in the community, etc. some come closer than others to making that a reality.

if the team wins, and the players stay out of trouble, that's great. If the team is playing .500 ball, and the players stay out of trouble, that will buy the coach a little more time.

But if the team is consistently losing, the coach is going to be replaced, no matter what the team GPA is or how many community service projects they perform. I'm not saying the other stuff is not important - but I am saying that winning is more important. Win Games, put people in the seats, bring in the money, and you've got a job as long as you can keep it going. If you don't win games and put people in the seats, you can be Gandhi and you're still going to lose your job.
 

"...saying is not believing..." "Seeing is believing..." I believe what I see...long before I believe what is said. Time will tell. Good luck to all. Beat the stinking badger, GOPHER! Seeing what the 2018 season shows is much more important to the record book than saying what the 2018 season may show in the record book. It takes a while of seeing the culture to know if the culture is what it is said to be.

Wren is right. We have to beat sconnie first, then critical analysis second. If we dont beat our rivals, PJ will be gone and so will the culture.

However, I too think flecks model is good. 17 year old kids want what fleck offers: a certain environment that extends past practice.

People are so critical of flecks use of the word culture yet culture is literally what is steering the ship right now. Accountability, discipline, teammates guiding each other. What ever you want to call it. The beat programs have it. If fleck starts to win games, the system will be in place. This is not basement brew 2.0 as many critics and media members seem to think. Fleck has 4 star wrs getting RTB tattoos before even living here!!

Its happening guys...start winning some games and dinkytown is gonna explode.
 

(almost) every program in American talks about having players who are good citizens, go to class, are active in the community, etc. some come closer than others to making that a reality.

if the team wins, and the players stay out of trouble, that's great. If the team is playing .500 ball, and the players stay out of trouble, that will buy the coach a little more time.

But if the team is consistently losing, the coach is going to be replaced, no matter what the team GPA is or how many community service projects they perform. I'm not saying the other stuff is not important - but I am saying that winning is more important. Win Games, put people in the seats, bring in the money, and you've got a job as long as you can keep it going. If you don't win games and put people in the seats, you can be Gandhi and you're still going to lose your job.

Preach, SON. (SON has been through Warmath to Stoll to Salem to Holtz to Gutekunst to Wacker to Mason to Brewster to Horton to Kill to Claeys to the present.)
 




It's good to have a group of players that represent the school well.

I agree the old regime had peaked but I need to see this team win the West before I hop on the Natty train.

The stock is still on the rise, I look forward to seeing how much this team grows with PJ having a full year at the helm.
 

I always thought it would be fun to mark the first three rows of a class as "reserved" and put up on the board "WHAT NOW FOOTBALL GUYS!?!?!?".
 

(almost) every program in American talks about having players who are good citizens, go to class, are active in the community, etc. some come closer than others to making that a reality.

if the team wins, and the players stay out of trouble, that's great. If the team is playing .500 ball, and the players stay out of trouble, that will buy the coach a little more time.

But if the team is consistently losing, the coach is going to be replaced, no matter what the team GPA is or how many community service projects they perform. I'm not saying the other stuff is not important - but I am saying that winning is more important. Win Games, put people in the seats, bring in the money, and you've got a job as long as you can keep it going. If you don't win games and put people in the seats, you can be Gandhi and you're still going to lose your job.

Wacker got his last extension mainly because the kids were good in the classroom.

Winning is important if a coach wants to keep his job. More important than how the kids behave on campus unless there are severe issues on campus.
However, overall, how kids learn and act is more important than football wins. Good solid contributors to society are more important that someone who plays football well. But a coach won't keep a job for losing with quality personalities.
 



Maverick: I see people saying over and over that everything is great and recruiting is great and that the natty championship...even a Western Division championship is a done-deal waiting just around the corner right over the rainbow. Glad you know that saying something over and over does not make it true...on any side of the equation. Works both ways. We need a little balance, don't you think? Time will tell. That's the deal in real life.
 

Says the poster who says things over and over.... Glad you know that saying something over and over does not make it true
Maverick: I see people saying over and over that everything is great and recruiting is great and that the natty championship...even a Western Division championship is a done-deal waiting just around the corner right over the rainbow. Glad you know that saying something over and over does not make it true...on any side of the equation. Works both ways. We need a little balance, don't you think? Time will tell. That's the deal in real life. ch And in the end, only Big Ten Wins and an occasional run at a division championship will keep the coach employed in Minneapolis on the East Bank Campus of the Land Grant University that resides there.
 

It likely goes to another University in 5 years or less (regardless of success).
I believe there was a ceiling to where they could have built our program to, and with PJ that ceiling is a national championship. I believe PJ is the best recruiter we’ve had in my lifetime, and I’m excited to see just where this boat goes!
 

Love the optimism. Recuiting does seem to be on the up tick...but are these better players than what the past regimes strategy was? Don't know yet as we've had only a one year sample and most of those redshirted. This year we should get a better idea as many of those redshirts play. We also don't really know about in game coaching yet either. So until we see more we have no idea if PJF is the guy to take us to the promised land. I'm excited and think this season is going to be fun to watch but I don't think this is the year for what we are hoping to see. I have seen many other coaches with bigger names bomb at places that are traditional powerhouses...Norte Dame, Michigan, Texas, etc.
 

It takes someone who is a salesman who can sell dead people's shoes to win in this tundra. Maybe that person is PJ Fleck. You can say all you want about Fleckism. I don't care as long as he can turn this wretched cursed program around. They have to point to the glory days long gone and convince folks that it can be done again. There must be a few Gophers rolling in their graves.

One thing is certain. More of us are going to join them. Let's hope that when we go, we do so with a smile on our faces. :eek:
 


I hate to be that guy (again) but if the allegations about the thief are true then that story will likely make it into the sports pages and help undo part of the image PJ is trying to build. When someone builds a public image of virtue, whether a pastor, televangelist, politician, administrator they are ripe for much increased criticism if something goes awry. While doing well in school, being respectful, sitting in the front row all helps it cannot offset preexisting stereotypes and biases except at the margins. It’s still worthwhile simply because those are good life skills. Things as basic asshowing up on time, for example, is a lost art.

There are elements at the school and the media and in the community that are going to be anti-athletes no matter what. If the team cured cancer, eliminated inequality, fed the poor with manna from heaven, there will still be factions gunning on them for eg being part of the testosterone patriarchy, or being entitled, or XYZ.
 

You can't babysit all these kids 24/7. Some of them come from disadvantaged backgrounds. Programs try to screen out the bad apples, but they are going to miss on some.

This should not be an indictment against a program trying very hard to instill good values and mold players into good people. Nor should it be an indictment on all the players that are doing it right.

We will know once the investigations are done. The U must have learned a lot on how to handle these situations and not leak info prematurely to the public before all the facts are rendered. I sure hope so.
 

Based on?
Past history of moving up when a coach does well and getting fired when a coach does poorly. In either case, it will surprise me if Fleck is here in another five years.
 

Some have developed and perpetuate this narrative that Kill/Claeys were running a loose ship academically and socially, and PJ had to come in and repair all of that. That's just false. Kill and Co. always emphasized academics first, and were very concerned with developing these kids into good men, to the point of accepting them all as family and bringing them into his home. Many players stated that Kill and his wife were like father and mother figures that would do anything for them any any time. It's actually very similar to what PJ emphasizes, they just didn't use such strong rhetoric and didn't make them wear collared shirts and dictate which seat they sat in the classroom. Numerous players would gush over what Kill and his wife did for them as people, not football players, and claimed to owe them a debt that could never possibly be repaid.

If I remember right, Kill took the team to a level academically (and in the field as well, by the way) that hasn't been there for decades, if ever. He laid the groundwork for the kids to buy into PJs philosophy (upperclassman were already used to being upheld to stringent academic standards).

I just can't wrap my head around constant comments like these. Why does everything PJ does have to be proof of the ineptitude of the previous staff (which is laughable considering where they brought this program, and are solely responsible for the facilities Fleck is taking full advantage of)? They can both be staffs that helped kids out, even if the processes werent identical. It's not a mutually exclusive situation.

Taking a few kids that made a stupid drunken decision, and trying to skew Kill and Co as enablers of violence, truency, etc is pretty ridiculous. Let's hope some kid(s) don't go rouge on Fleck and do something stupid (he's already suspended multiple players for drug use....why isn't that a reflection of poor culture?). If they do, I sure hope we hold his feet to fire as well, and not be blinded by the smooth talk.

Don't kid yourself, Fleck's approach is a conscious decision to obtain an advantage over other programs, just as much as any other coach. It's PR/marketing. He's not running an after school program for underpriveledged kids. I think of it in the same way as a corporation that says "10% of our profits go to cause X." The end to those means isn't necessarily because they're that passionate about that cause....they know it sells, builds brand recognition/loyalty. He's even stooped to dragging his kids through the media to help his cause, for which we love to berate politicians and other public figureheads. But, when he does, he's an amazing, selfless family man.

He's a great guy and coach. But let's not turn this into a Jim Jones kool-aid scenario and buy everything he says in the media hook-line-and sinker. A little skepticism is always healthy.
 

Some have developed and perpetuate this narrative that Kill/Claeys were running a loose ship academically and socially, and PJ had to come in and repair all of that. That's just false. Kill and Co. always emphasized academics first, and were very concerned with developing these kids into good men, to the point of accepting them all as family and bringing them into his home. Many players stated that Kill and his wife were like father and mother figures that would do anything for them any any time. It's actually very similar to what PJ emphasizes, they just didn't use such strong rhetoric and didn't make them wear collared shirts and dictate which seat they sat in the classroom. Numerous players would gush over what Kill and his wife did for them as people, not football players, and claimed to owe them a debt that could never possibly be repaid.

If I remember right, Kill took the team to a level academically (and in the field as well, by the way) that hasn't been there for decades, if ever. He laid the groundwork for the kids to buy into PJs philosophy (upperclassman were already used to being upheld to stringent academic standards).

I just can't wrap my head around constant comments like these. Why does everything PJ does have to be proof of the ineptitude of the previous staff (which is laughable considering where they brought this program, and are solely responsible for the facilities Fleck is taking full advantage of)? They can both be staffs that helped kids out, even if the processes werent identical. It's not a mutually exclusive situation.

Taking a few kids that made a stupid drunken decision, and trying to skew Kill and Co as enablers of violence, truency, etc is pretty ridiculous. Let's hope some kid(s) don't go rouge on Fleck and do something stupid (he's already suspended multiple players for drug use....why isn't that a reflection of poor culture?). If they do, I sure hope we hold his feet to fire as well, and not be blinded by the smooth talk.

Don't kid yourself, Fleck's approach is a conscious decision to obtain an advantage over other programs, just as much as any other coach. It's PR/marketing. He's not running an after school program for underpriveledged kids. I think of it in the same way as a corporation that says "10% of our profits go to cause X." The end to those means isn't necessarily because they're that passionate about that cause....they know it sells, builds brand recognition/loyalty.

I think Kill did a fine job of getting the academics in good shape.
There was some smoke around Kill and definitely Claeys with some players having sexual misconduct issues.
We saw last fall that Fleck does not hesitate to hold players accountable for classroom and off the field behavior, whereas my perception is that Claeys did not do the same.
 

Some have developed and perpetuate this narrative that Kill/Claeys were running a loose ship academically and socially, and PJ had to come in and repair all of that. That's just false. Kill and Co. always emphasized academics first, and were very concerned with developing these kids into good men, to the point of accepting them all as family and bringing them into his home. Many players stated that Kill and his wife were like father and mother figures that would do anything for them any any time. It's actually very similar to what PJ emphasizes, they just didn't use such strong rhetoric and didn't make them wear collared shirts and dictate which seat they sat in the classroom. Numerous players would gush over what Kill and his wife did for them as people, not football players, and claimed to owe them a debt that could never possibly be repaid.

If I remember right, Kill took the team to a level academically (and in the field as well, by the way) that hasn't been there for decades, if ever. He laid the groundwork for the kids to buy into PJs philosophy (upperclassman were already used to being upheld to stringent academic standards).

I just can't wrap my head around constant comments like these. Why does everything PJ does have to be proof of the ineptitude of the previous staff (which is laughable considering where they brought this program, and are solely responsible for the facilities Fleck is taking full advantage of)? They can both be staffs that helped kids out, even if the processes werent identical. It's not a mutually exclusive situation.

Taking a few kids that made a stupid drunken decision, and trying to skew Kill and Co as enablers of violence, truency, etc is pretty ridiculous. Let's hope some kid(s) don't go rouge on Fleck and do something stupid (he's already suspended multiple players for drug use....why isn't that a reflection of poor culture?). If they do, I sure hope we hold his feet to fire as well, and not be blinded by the smooth talk.

Don't kid yourself, Fleck's approach is a conscious decision to obtain an advantage over other programs, just as much as any other coach. It's PR/marketing. He's not running an after school program for underpriveledged kids. I think of it in the same way as a corporation that says "10% of our profits go to cause X." The end to those means isn't necessarily because they're that passionate about that cause....they know it sells, builds brand recognition/loyalty.

Tc and kill are good guys.

TC was in charge when a bad thing happened due his players decisions.

He was the CEO. He was in charge. Whether it was his fault or not, the CEO is canned more times than not.

Pj does advertise his program.

I guarantee you he doesnt do it just for promotional use. He believes every word. You would have to. He is an educator. If this was all a put on, he would have a mental health breakdown all the time. You dont organize these events if it pains you or exhausts you.

Pj s system is different. He provides the environment kids want. People make fun of flecks use of the word culture, yet culture is literally driving the ship right now. Heck, he has guys getting RTB tattoos without even living here.

Like PJ or not, hes here, hes getting high end recruits, and hes providing guidance for kids. Whether it was that much different than what the other coaches did before, we may not know. However, if no one tells us what happened, we will never know.
 

Some have developed and perpetuate this narrative that Kill/Claeys were running a loose ship academically and socially, and PJ had to come in and repair all of that. That's just false. Kill and Co. always emphasized academics first, and were very concerned with developing these kids into good men, to the point of accepting them all as family and bringing them into his home. Many players stated that Kill and his wife were like father and mother figures that would do anything for them any any time. It's actually very similar to what PJ emphasizes, they just didn't use such strong rhetoric and didn't make them wear collared shirts and dictate which seat they sat in the classroom. Numerous players would gush over what Kill and his wife did for them as people, not football players, and claimed to owe them a debt that could never possibly be repaid.

I think the big difference is the incident a year and a half ago involved many players. It's one thing to have one or two players do something stupid once in awhile. It's different when 10+ are potentially involved. That's the perception anyways. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I also understand why many people think there was a culture issue (or whatever you want to call it) previously.

Don't kid yourself, Fleck's approach is a conscious decision to obtain an advantage over other programs, just as much as any other coach. It's PR/marketing. He's not running an after school program for underpriveledged kids. I think of it in the same way as a corporation that says "10% of our profits go to cause X." The end to those means isn't necessarily because they're that passionate about that cause....they know it sells, builds brand recognition/loyalty. He's even stooped to dragging his kids through the media to help his cause, for which we love to berate politicians and other public figureheads. But, when he does, he's an amazing, selfless family man.

Why isn't it possible he truly wants to help the kids succeed in life? I don't think he only does it for PR/marketing. He can be both.
 


You can't babysit all these kids 24/7. Some of them come from disadvantaged backgrounds. Programs try to screen out the bad apples, but they are going to miss on some.

This should not be an indictment against a program trying very hard to instill good values and mold players into good people. Nor should it be an indictment on all the players that are doing it right.


We will know once the investigations are done. The U must have learned a lot on how to handle these situations and not leak info prematurely to the public before all the facts are rendered. I sure hope so.

There's a lot of GHers who didn't feel the same a year and a half ago.

As I posted several times during the whole situation in 2016, I'll let anyone hand-pick 120 human beings and I guarantee there will turn out to be a good handful of bad apples in the group. Human nature.
 

There's a lot of GHers who didn't feel the same a year and a half ago.

As I posted several times during the whole situation in 2016, I'll let anyone hand-pick 120 human beings and I guarantee there will turn out to be a good handful of bad apples in the group. Human nature.

Yep. Aside from those individuals that grew up with poor parenting and poor role models/teachers and never learned how to behave there are simply going to be a percentage of people on the psychopathy/sociopathy spectrum. It's baked in the cake and cannot be fixed.
 

We can't reform Ted Bundy or other unnamed football players who are bad seeds, but we certainly turn around the lives of many of the kids in the program.

Social norms, grace, and etiquette, etc... are not the same or absent from where some of these kids come from dysfunctional families or disadvantaged backgrounds. Don't get me wrong. There are many who are blessed and do not have the struggles others faced growing up. That does not mean kids less well off are bad people. Kids from well of families are just as capable of making wrong choices. Can't judge people unless you walk in their shoes... Kids in the program all need life coaching in one form or another.

That is what attracts players to the program as the last official visit just before the December 8 NSD with their parents and significant others can attest to. It is a feel good story with the parents entrusting their sons to a program that will change their kids' lives.

That is what PJ Fleck is doing with date nights where the players are taught how to treat women with grace and how to behave properly. All the volunteering that the players are required to do is to help them bring social awareness, a sense of community, and that there are other people in need. To give more of yourself than you receive.
 




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