Gophers land JUCO defensive tackles Chris Daniels and Keonte Schad

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scools12 said:
You really need to find a new college football team to follow. Clearly following the one coached by PJ Fleck isn’t any fun for you.
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I am actually not upset with the signing. I was simply pointing out the inconsistencies from some of our fans, who feel a need to denigrate past coaches to lift up PJ. When PJ said we weren't going to take JC players when he first got here, they lashed out at past coaches. Now that he is doing it, it is a wise move. Just funny how some folks shift. I guess some of that comes from PJ, who seems to have a need to lift himself up by pretending everything was a disaster that he inherited.

In response to your message about following a new program... not even going to bother.
 

fraternity2017 said:
It’s got to take some wild mental gymnastics to be a big enough Gopher fan to post on Gopherhole but also hate the head coach.


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Really? Wow. Fraternity2017, what are you, a freshman or sophomore at the U, and now you are a bigger fan than 20+ year ticket holders? There were all kinds of current Fleck supporters who came online hoping the Gophers would lose in 2016 so Claeys could be fired. Now, they are great fans? Really? There are all kinds of people who support programs but don't like their coach, such as Wisconsin with Bielema - there were all kinds of Badger fans who couldn't stand him. I have met PJ a number of times now and he is a clown who I find difficult to personally support, yet I don't want to see the program fail. So, I will plug my nose, hope they win, and buy tickets again when he leaves.
 

This is one of the great fallacies on GH - that PJ said he wouldn’t recruit Jucos. He said his preference is to recruit high schoolers. Just like practically every coach.

I love getting top flight Juco players who can come in and potentially start right away. Damien Wilson and BBC were great examples of this, and hopefully Daniels is as well.

My issue is with “having” to recruit Jucos in year 5/6 because you’ve missed on so many high school recruits and your depth is paper thin. Wright and Calhoun were borderline starters/backups on a bad o-line. Those aren’t the type of Jucos that really elevate the team, but are a necessity due to depth.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
Really? Wow. Fraternity2017, what are you, a freshman or sophomore at the U, and now you are a bigger fan than 20+ year ticket holders? There were all kinds of current Fleck supporters who came online hoping the Gophers would lose in 2016 so Claeys could be fired. Now, they are great fans? Really? There are all kinds of people who support programs but don't like their coach, such as Wisconsin with Bielema - there were all kinds of Badger fans who couldn't stand him. I have met PJ a number of times now and he is a clown who I find difficult to personally support, yet I don't want to see the program fail. So, I will plug my nose, hope they win, and buy tickets again when he leaves.
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I wasn’t really a huge Claeys fan, but I never felt the need to incessantly rip him on a message board when he was the head coach. And I wanted to see him win every game.
 

Bottom line, when it comes to recruiting, you either trust and/or accept the coaches' judgement, or you don't. There were people on this board who didn't trust Kill or Claeys' judgement on recruits. So, is it any surprise that some people are questioning Fleck's judgement on recruits?

If it was easy to identify recruits who will pan out and become contributors, everyone would be doing it. Simple fact is that some recruits pan out better than expected, some recruits live up to expectations, and some recruits fail to meet expectations. If a coach could choose correctly 100% of the time, they would win a lot of games.

But some coaching staffs just do a better job than others at identifying players and coaching them to meet their potential. Any schmuck can look at Adrian Peterson in HS and say, "he's going to be good." The real key is looking at some 16 year old kid and envisioning what that kid could become in 3 or 4 years with the right coaching and development.
 


Daniels looks incredibly impressive. He looks like an NFL player (I'm not saying he is or will be).

PJ's doing a really nice job building a deep DL.

For me, this also signals that PJ thinks this will be a full class. You want your roster to have some class balance and if he thought this was really going to be a real small class, he would be less likely to go the JuCo route (it would make it's 2022/2023 equivalent that much smaller). Maybe I'm reading into it too much and he just saw these guys as key additions.

Either way, Daniels tape is really impressive (kind of has a Hageman feel to it (in a good way). Schad also looks solid. Welcome aboard!
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
Really? Wow. Fraternity2017, what are you, a freshman or sophomore at the U, and now you are a bigger fan than 20+ year ticket holders? There were all kinds of current Fleck supporters who came online hoping the Gophers would lose in 2016 so Claeys could be fired. Now, they are great fans? Really? There are all kinds of people who support programs but don't like their coach, such as Wisconsin with Bielema - there were all kinds of Badger fans who couldn't stand him. I have met PJ a number of times now and he is a clown who I find difficult to personally support, yet I don't want to see the program fail. So, I will plug my nose, hope they win, and buy tickets again when he leaves.
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I have to say I support much of what you said. I met PJ and found him cold and dismissive...the direct opposite of my early impressions based on TV and radio. Kill was warm and genuine. Brew was friendly. Murray Warmath was very nice. Cal Stoll was the best. I met him at a party and we talked Gophers for about an hour. Then he invited me over for a function and I met Tony Dungy. Gutekunst was a big pompous a**hole. I heard Mason speak at a coaching seminar and thought he was smooth. So in terms of first impressions upon meeting a coach, PJ seemed the least friendly. That was a shocker to me. But I support the guy 100% and want him to suceed ...and I believe he will be successful because of his recruiting abilities.
 

fraternity2017 said:
It’s got to take some wild mental gymnastics to be a big enough Gopher fan to post on Gopherhole but also hate the head coach.


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You can support a team without blindly loving all of its personnel. Mitch Leidner got ripped to shreds. Joe Mauer takes all kinds of criticism from Twins fans. He's dead and gone, but there's still a pretty large contingent of Vikings fans that loathe Denny Green. I could go on and on.
 

fraternity2017 said:
It’s got to take some wild mental gymnastics to be a big enough Gopher fan to post on Gopherhole but also hate the head coach.
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There were a lot of people doing it while Claeys was the head coach.
 



Ozzy&Ray said:
I am actually not upset with the signing. I was simply pointing out the inconsistencies from some of our fans, who feel a need to denigrate past coaches to lift up PJ. When PJ said we weren't going to take JC players when he first got here, they lashed out at past coaches. Now that he is doing it, it is a wise move. Just funny how some folks shift. I guess some of that comes from PJ, who seems to have a need to lift himself up by pretending everything was a disaster that he inherited.

In response to your message about following a new program... not even going to bother.
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This is all an exaggeration. Fleck never said he wouldn’t ever recruit jucos. And there were only a few that were critical of the former coaches for signing jucos. Three former Gophers in the NFL were jucos: BBC, Wilson, Campbell. It's good to go that route from time to time to fill some gaps. The former staff did a good job of that and I think the current staff has done well so far.
 

I like the idea that the Gophers are addressing the Defensive Line and balancing out the classes.

Gary Moore is the lone Senior DT followed by two Juniors in Royal Silver and OJ Smith.

Nate Umlor is the lone Sophomore. The addition of Daniels and Schad will help here (do they both have three years of eligibility?).

We have Freshman Noah Hickcox and Malcom Robinson after that (FIFY - AND Elijah Teague!).

Then, we hope to have Gray Shirt Logan Richter. On paper it looks good for DT.

We probably would need guys to step in and help Moore, Royal, and Smith. Daniels and/or Schad will have to step in.

The thing about DTs - The Gophers kept missing out previously on recruits like Amir Watts (The guy who totally destroyed Sean Foster while Tracey Claeys was watching him on a coaches' visit - enough for the Gophers to change their mind on Foster). He opted for Pitt. Good DTs are a hard get for MN.

Another thing - Daniels and Schad have a year or more of physical maturity. They aren't coming in as raw Freshmen to get pounded. We know that Daniels was previously a high-rated 4-Star. Why he didn't play much for Coach Herman doesn't mean much to me. We got him. IMHO, sometimes guys like him get redemption and career revitalization by transferring. Like someone just mention, Hageman didn't flourish until his Junior Year when he started taking things seriously. Schad to me looks like a real diamond in the rough.
 

hungan1 said:
I like the idea that the Gophers are addressing the Defensive Line and balancing out the classes.

Gary Moore is the lone Senior DT followed by two Juniors in Royal Silver and OJ Smith.

Nate Umlor is the lone Sophomore. The addition of Daniels and Schad will help here (do they both have three years of eligibility?).

We have Freshman Noah Hickcox and Malcom Robinson after that.

Then, we hope to have Gray Shirt Logan Richter. On paper it looks good for DT.
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Don't forget Elijah Teague.
 

mkAz said:
Don't forget Elijah Teague.
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My bad. Looks even better.

I know it is cliche, but the Gophers need a strong pass rushing/run stopping Defense to give the Offense a chance to prosper and develop.

I'd like the idea of rotating the Defensive Line more often now that we have more bodies to keep them fresh. Maybe Fleck, Smoth and Rossi have something up their sleeves for a new look Gopher Defense. At least I am hoping.
 



hungan1 said:
My bad. Looks even better.

I know it is cliche, but the Gophers need a strong pass rushing/run stopping Defense to give the Offense a chance to prosper and develop.

I'd like the idea of rotating the Defensive Line more often now that we have more bodies to keep them fresh. Maybe Fleck, Smoth and Rossi have something up their sleeves for a new look Gopher Defense. At least I am hoping.
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I'm excited about this.... but also nervous.

A big focus on pass rushing IMO is something akin to doubling down on a bet. If it works the payoff is huge!

If it doesn't work you get gouged on the pass and the run and it doesn't take many losses there to drop a whole game.
 

Looking at Daniels' film, he's physically impressive but has terrible technique.
 

It is a game of adjustments and improvements. These guys being young and inexperience are going to learn to play together as one functioning unit. They are bound to get a few bumps in the road. We want them to be better if even incrementally each game. This includes the defensive backfield.

Play good enough to decide those close games in the Gophers' favor.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
I am actually not upset with the signing. I was simply pointing out the inconsistencies from some of our fans, who feel a need to denigrate past coaches to lift up PJ. When PJ said we weren't going to take JC players when he first got here, they lashed out at past coaches. Now that he is doing it, it is a wise move. Just funny how some folks shift. I guess some of that comes from PJ, who seems to have a need to lift himself up by pretending everything was a disaster that he inherited .
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The only denigrating happening is your continuous not stop denigrating of everything and anything PJ Fleck to try and prop up a previous staff that is long gone.






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scools12 said:
The only denigrating happening is your continuous not stop denigrating of everything and anything PJ Fleck to try and prop up a previous staff that is long gone.






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You’re funny, and sensitive. This is like my 3rd or 4th post in months. Also, I am not trying to prop anyone up. Claeys was an imperfect coach, as was Kill. What I don’t like about our current coach, and many of his disciples, is the incessant need to prop up PJ by talking about the need to rebuild and acting like he inherited a dumpster fire. Strong, successful leaders who sustain their leadership and organizations over time, no matter the industry, do not need to proper themselves up by talking negatively of the leaders they follow.

You go ahead and try to fit me into your narrative though. Look back and I have never criticized anything PJ has done on the field with the team, and I did not criticize these JC players.


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Breakin' The Plane said:
You can support a team without blindly loving all of its personnel. Mitch Leidner got ripped to shreds. Joe Mauer takes all kinds of criticism from Twins fans. He's dead and gone, but there's still a pretty large contingent of Vikings fans that loathe Denny Green. I could go on and on.
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I get that. Some on this board act as though they want PJ to fail. There’s a difference between criticizing a player or coach and wanting them to fail.


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scools12 said:
You really need to find a new college football team to follow. Clearly following the one coached by PJ Fleck isn’t any fun for you.
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So asking a question about PJ not going the JC route when PJ himself said he’s not going to do that, he’s going to do it the right way....means get out?

Wow. Just wow. What kind of world do we live in when taking a man at his word is looked down upon?

He’s free to change his mind at any point, and he obviously had. Does this now mean we’re doing it the wrong way? Just curious, since I obviously don’t get it.


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John Galt said:
This is one of the great fallacies on GH - that PJ said he wouldn’t recruit Jucos. He said his preference is to recruit high schoolers. Just like practically every coach.

I love getting top flight Juco players who can come in and potentially start right away. Damien Wilson and BBC were great examples of this, and hopefully Daniels is as well.

My issue is with “having” to recruit Jucos in year 5/6 because you’ve missed on so many high school recruits and your depth is paper thin. Wright and Calhoun were borderline starters/backups on a bad o-line. Those aren’t the type of Jucos that really elevate the team, but are a necessity due to depth.
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Totally agree and think that’s what he meant. When a player like Daniels is available, that’s worth making an exception.

But how he said it (going to do things the right way) and how often (not going to cut corners, going to do it the right way) during the first recruiting cycle opens up criticism.

As I’ve stated a number of times, his hyperbole and misuse of words in their meanings creates unnecessary problems for him.


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caliGopher said:
Totally agree and think that’s what he meant. When a player like Daniels is available, that’s worth making an exception.

But how he said it (going to do things the right way) and how often (not going to cut corners, going to do it the right way) during the first recruiting cycle opens up criticism.

As I’ve stated a number of times, his hyperbole and misuse of words in their meanings creates unnecessary problems for him.


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Did he really say he wasn't going to recruit jucos at all because he wants to do things the right way or doesn't want to cut corners?
 

Sounds like we have some good DL depth coming in! Something to be excited about for 2019 already!
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
You’re funny, and sensitive. This is like my 3rd or 4th post in months. Also, I am not trying to prop anyone up. Claeys was an imperfect coach, as was Kill. What I don’t like about our current coach, and many of his disciples, is the incessant need to prop up PJ by talking about the need to rebuild and acting like he inherited a dumpster fire. Strong, successful leaders who sustain their leadership and organizations over time, no matter the industry, do not need to proper themselves up by talking negatively of the leaders they follow.

You go ahead and try to fit me into your narrative though. Look back and I have never criticized anything PJ has done on the field with the team, and I did not criticize these JC players.


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Lighten up a little. Nobody's perfect unless you are a Nick Saban or one of the elite coaches. We've got who we've got in PJ Fleck. Winning doesn't happen overnight especially the last fifty years.

It will take some time to rebuild (if you don't like this semantics, use another word) a football program under a new coach. You can get lucky as in Jeff Brohm at Purdue who is an innovative offensive coach who took over Darrell Hazell inheriting some pretty decent players.

This is Minnesota, a hard place to recruit from. The Gophers will be fine. It just takes time.
 

hungan1 said:
Lighten up a little. Nobody's perfect unless you are a Nick Saban or one of the elite coaches. We've got who we've got in PJ Fleck. Winning doesn't happen overnight especially the last fifty years.

It will take some time to rebuild (if you don't like this semantics, use another word) a football program under a new coach. You can get lucky as in Jeff Brohm at Purdue who is an innovative offensive coach who took over Darrell Hazell inheriting some pretty decent players.

This is Minnesota, a hard place to recruit from. The Gophers will be fine. It just takes time.
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Thanks, but not real worked up so not feeling a need to lighten up. It's more than semantics with PJ. It can be done here as it has in neighboring states - they don't have any better recruiting base than MN. Do I think PJ will get it done? Not really, but I hope he does (while also toning down the insincere BS). I would like to see him build on the successes he inherited with a program that was moving in the right direction on the field, student-athletes going to class, a strong work ethic, etc.
 

hungan1 said:
Lighten up a little. Nobody's perfect unless you are a Nick Saban or one of the elite coaches. We've got who we've got in PJ Fleck. Winning doesn't happen overnight especially the last fifty years.

It will take some time to rebuild (if you don't like this semantics, use another word) a football program under a new coach. You can get lucky as in Jeff Brohm at Purdue who is an innovative offensive coach who took over Darrell Hazell inheriting some pretty decent players.

This is Minnesota, a hard place to recruit from. The Gophers will be fine. It just takes time.
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I thought the response was pretty measured, given the post that it was responding to...that poster could take your advice. As has been pointed out numerous times by multiple posters, there's close to a 50/50 chance the new HC will do as good or better than the previous one.

I agree on the recruiting piece here at the U...great class in 2018 driven mostly by his national exposure and cult of personality. Will be extremely hard to maintain if Gophs are not winning at a higher level than the recent past.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
Thanks, but not real worked up so not feeling a need to lighten up. It's more than semantics with PJ. It can be done here as it has in neighboring states - they don't have any better recruiting base than MN. Do I think PJ will get it done? Not really, but I hope he does (while also toning down the insincere BS). I would like to see him build on the successes he inherited with a program that was moving in the right direction on the field, student-athletes going to class, a strong work ethic, etc.
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With all due respect, those teams didn't have a nekton mentality.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Did he really say he wasn't going to recruit jucos at all because he wants to do things the right way or doesn't want to cut corners?
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IIRC he just said he didn't generally want to do it vs say crooning out of HS... I thought the context was just as a matter of how he would like to operate with all things being equal.... not that he wouldn't or that it is bad or anything like that.
 


GophersInIowa said:
Did he really say he wasn't going to recruit jucos at all because he wants to do things the right way or doesn't want to cut corners?
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In response to recruiting Jucos, he repeatedly said he didn’t want to. Wanted to do things the right way. Based on the question asked, and the answer given he certainly gave me the impression that he felt the JUCO route was not the right way to go about it.

Now that he’s been here a while I guess I’m not surprised at the apparent differences as PJ seems to have his own version of the English dictionary, facts, and often appears to stick to a storyline he wants to tell regardless of the question asked, but it’s still, to me, as others have pointed out, inconsistent with the “culture” he’s instilling.


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