In-State Recruiting

EG#9

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There has been a lot of talk in both active recruiting threads ('18 and '19) on Coach Pitino's in-state recruiting strategy. I had a lot I wanted to say/ask about in-state recruiting and didn't want to bury potentially important recruiting notes with my thoughts and questions that are more general than specific to anyone player or class.

First, with the open assistant coaching position, I've been wondering if there is anyone Coach Pitino could hire than would make an immediate difference with multiple in-state recruits? I am not talking about Richard Hurt, but is there a local high school coach or former player that trains kids that is really popular with the '18, '19, even '20 kids? I really think recruiting has to be the priority with this 3rd assistant coach spot as we currently have two former mid/low major head coaches on the bench next to Pitino.

I am sure many of you have noticed, but Ben Johnson has moved quickly to offer a number of Minnesota kids since moving to Xavier (Terry, Nnaji, Hurt, and Garcia) . Part of me wonders if Ben wanted to offer these kids (or offer them earlier) than Coach Pitino did while he was at Minnesota. Minnesota still has not offered Garcia, but Johnson/Xavier has.

This kind of leads me in to the controversy over Pitino's in-state offer strategy. I am not in the camp that believes Minnesota needs to offer every high major kid in-state. Some kids just won't be fits for various reasons and I feel like we (as fans) have to be willing to give the coaches (whoever they are) the benefit of the doubt on that. I am also not in the camp that believes Minnesota needs to be the first high major to offer every Minnesota kid they are interested in. For various reasons, Pitino might be more cautious on an in-state kid for fear of someone wanting to commit who they might eventually want to pull an offer from (this happened years ago under Monson with a kid that committed his Sophomore year). That said, what frustrates me, is the seeming inability to be early/first on any local kids. I feel like it's fair to expect Coach Pitino to be confident in someone outside of the absolute national elite (Hurt, Suggs) to extend an offer early and hopefully secure some commitments from in-state kids prior to the Spring after Junior year period where players usually blow up like Nnaji has this year and Davison did last year. Jericho Sims is another example. Pitino offered mid April just before or during the first week of travel games. Nebraska offered in mid October just before his JR season of high school. If Pitino offered in October, does Jericho become a Gopher, before he plays in the shoe games and blows up? He ended up no.53 in the country and earned an offer from Kansas that Spring/Summer. To his credit, Pitino got just such a commitment from Oturu who actually is/was close to that elite level. Unfortunately, that seems to be the exception rather than the rule. I don't understand how a skilled ~6'10 kid from Minnesota in Dawson Garcia can get offers from Texas and Baylor before the home state school. With the '19 kids, Wisconsin, Creighton, Nebraska, and possibly Iowa all offered Zeke before Minnesota and Iowa, Nebraska, Butler, and Baylor all offered Tyrell before Minnesota. Wisconsin offered Tyler Wahl before Minnesota. With the '20 class Baylor, Texas and Xavier have offered Dawson Garcia, Stanford and Nebraska have offered Ben Carlson, and Iowa has offered Dain Dainja. I am not advocating that Minnesota should want all of these players or that they should offer all of them. I do think that among a group of 6 players over 2 classes to earn high major offers that Minnesota should have been first (and hopefully secured an early commitment) from someone. The being cautious thing (if it's even a thing, makes sense to me, may not make sense to others) can't be an excuse for all these guys. At some point you have to be confident in your evaluation and take advantage of being the home state school that gets to see these guys more often.

Obviously if the '19 class is a successful one for Pitino in-state, then concerns like mine or others become invalid. That would make two straight years of landing top in-state talent and a generally good record of landing in-state talent with the exception of the '17 class.
 

I really think that they should hire Damian Johnson. He had a great year coaching over at North. He knows the program and knows MN high school basketball.

To your second point, I agree that although being the first offer is not everything, there is still a lot to be said about being a kids first offer especially if he is local.

Pitino needs to be more aggressive and confident in offering these kids. The only player we were first on in 2018 was Gabe. I am more optimistic now that Jeter is on staff, he has recruited this area before when he was in Wisconsin and I think he will convince Pitino to move quicker on the in-state kids.
 

He slow play's in state recruits and when they get another high offer he offers them, in many instances it is to late.
 

I don’t understand why people are freaking out about in state recruiting when we landed our top 3 realistic targets last year and nobody in 2019 has committed anywhere yet.


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I really think that they should hire Damian Johnson. He had a great year coaching over at North. He knows the program and knows MN high school basketball.

To your second point, I agree that although being the first offer is not everything, there is still a lot to be said about being a kids first offer especially if he is local.

Pitino needs to be more aggressive and confident in offering these kids. The only player we were first on in 2018 was Gabe. I am more optimistic now that Jeter is on staff, he has recruited this area before when he was in Wisconsin and I think he will convince Pitino to move quicker on the in-state kids.

247 says we were Oturu’s first offer. We were also first on Michael Hurt and second on Coffey. We were Omersa’s 5th high major offer and still got him. 247 says we were second on Sims after Nebraska, but I recall him being a late bloomer who shot up the rankings. I’m having trouble finding the info, but I think it’s entirely possible we offered Sims before Texas did and still didn’t get him.

I still don’t find our in-state recruiting to be a major concern. 2017 is really all anyone can point to when freaking out about in-state recruiting, outside of maybe expecting that we land at least one of the handful of 5-star recruits the state has produced/is producing, and in 2017 we had 2 scholarships, there 6 or 7 high major prospects in the state, and we got a highly sought after out of state recruit with one of those scholarships. Swap Jamir Harris for Jericho Sims and I think any reasonable person would consider the class a success, and there would still be 5 guys playing high major ball out of state in that scenario.
 


He slow play's in state recruits and when they get another high offer he offers them, in many instances it is to late.

If this was true, it's pretty strange how Pitino has landed several in state recruits.
 

The fact that Pitino hasn't offered Dawson Garcia is a joke . . . 6'10" 4 stars 25 miles from campus with plays like a 6'0 guard. He will fit anywhere. Stupid.
 

If this was true, it's pretty strange how Pitino has landed several in state recruits.

Oturo and Coffey are no brainers, obviously high major, others like Wahl, Omersa, and Davison fall somewhere near the border, he tends not to offer very quickly, Hurt was an exception.

Garcia is interesting, either he has no interest or Pitino thinks he has a chance with Hurt.
 

The fact that Pitino hasn't offered Dawson Garcia is a joke . . . 6'10" 4 stars 25 miles from campus with plays like a 6'0 guard. He will fit anywhere. Stupid.

I'm downright feeling ill about Garcia, and I share some of EG's frustrations. I have no inside info, so this is just speculation, but it feels like this staff is somewhat inclined to undervalue locals in comparison to kids from elsewhere. The 3-star and low 4-star caliber players from around here seem to be historically undervalued, but maybe that's turning around now with the well publicized successes of guys like Wright and Davison.

Speaking of Damian Johnson, not only is he an amazing up-and-coming coach, but he's a heck of a judge of talent. I read his Twitter in part to hear his opinions on local HS players, because he's very insightful and right. In general, he's been quoted as saying, don't sleep on Minnesota players, so you know that if he got hired by some college program, he's be all over this scene recruiting, like Ben Johnson now is.

By the way, Damian has been humble and demure when people bring up the possibility of him coaching for his alma mater some day, but I know he wants to. It's not hard to read between the lines of his replies and "likes."
 



Oturo and Coffey are no brainers, obviously high major, others like Wahl, Omersa, and Davison fall somewhere near the border, he tends not to offer very quickly, Hurt was an exception.

Garcia is interesting, either he has no interest or Pitino thinks he has a chance with Hurt.

I'm not as worried about in-state recruiting as some others seem to be, but I don't see any reason why our chances with Hurt would stop us from offering Garcia. Sure, they are similar players in terms of style and position, but 1) Hurt is probably going to be in school for only one year, and 2) if they both pan out then it is a good problem to have.
 

I think you answered your own question in your first comments. My opinion is that Pitino is shooting higher than Nebraska etc... he is aiming for national top recruits and not just the state of Minnesota. He has gone hard after the obvious top MN talent, but seems to slow play the up and comers. I think it has to do with being cautious about getting early commitments from MN players that may not be sure things. He seems to want to have spots open for higher national recruits.


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I think you answered your own question in your first comments. My opinion is that Pitino is shooting higher than Nebraska etc... he is aiming for national top recruits and not just the state of Minnesota. He has gone hard after the obvious top MN talent, but seems to slow play the up and comers. I think it has to do with being cautious about getting early commitments from MN players that may not be sure things. He seems to want to have spots open for higher national recruits.


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Agreed, also please know that all these offers to kids this early are not always committable. We need to slow our roles here on in state recruiting. Replacing Johnson will be a priority, but it doesn't need to be a Minnesota guy. I know Ben was beloved here, but lets not force the issue. Get the best assistant possible. Jeter will be good in the Midwest (Which is where Minnesota is in case you were wondering) if this is where he is stationed to recruit. Also I guarantee you if Jericho Sims had said I will commit today in October of two years ago, Pitino would've accepted and extended an offer (ala Michael Hurt). None of these 2020 guys (Garcia, Carlson, etc..) are ready to commit yet anyhow. I've come to appreciate Pitino's honesty with recruits making only real offers that are committable and I think it plays well in the home state to be transparent. Can not burn bridges.
 

Garcia has been on campus multiple times. We aren’t ignoring him.


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I think you answered your own question in your first comments. My opinion is that Pitino is shooting higher than Nebraska etc... he is aiming for national top recruits and not just the state of Minnesota. He has gone hard after the obvious top MN talent, but seems to slow play the up and comers. I think it has to do with being cautious about getting early commitments from MN players that may not be sure things. He seems to want to have spots open for higher national recruits.


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This board can be schizo sometimes. A number of posters have said that the strategy you describe is something Pitino tried early, and it didn't work, so now he's settling into something more realistic and sustainable. But you're saying that success based on that strategy is right around the corner.
 

I'm downright feeling ill about Garcia, and I share some of EG's frustrations. I have no inside info, so this is just speculation, but it feels like this staff is somewhat inclined to undervalue locals in comparison to kids from elsewhere. The 3-star and low 4-star caliber players from around here seem to be historically undervalued, but maybe that's turning around now with the well publicized successes of guys like Wright and Davison.

Speaking of Damian Johnson, not only is he an amazing up-and-coming coach, but he's a heck of a judge of talent. I read his Twitter in part to hear his opinions on local HS players, because he's very insightful and right. In general, he's been quoted as saying, don't sleep on Minnesota players, so you know that if he got hired by some college program, he's be all over this scene recruiting, like Ben Johnson now is.

By the way, Damian has been humble and demure when people bring up the possibility of him coaching for his alma mater some day, but I know he wants to. It's not hard to read between the lines of his replies and "likes."

You don't even have to read between the lines. He has flat out said that he wants to coach at the U someday. I really hope that he is at least under consideration for the open spot.
 

Pitino is seemingly targeting players who are probably worse players than Hurt, Suggs, etc who are garnering blue blood attention but who are better than Nnaji, Garcia, etc. He knows he can probably fall back on some low four star, high three star Minnesota players while targeting elite top 60 level guys who aren't being recruited by Duke, Kansas and Kentucky.

I'll trust Pitino until he's fired, which is probably stupid, but I'd rather shoot for the moon when he can offer playing time and brand new facilities than shoot for the same guys we shot for when we were making the NIT and eating meals in a hallway and not having a facility.
 

I’m intrigued by having Damian Johnson come be an assistant. Another guy would be Dave Thorson. I wouldn’t mind in 5 years or so if Andre Hollins came back to coach too. Too bad gophers men don’t have graduate like a Lindsay Whalen for the women’s team.
 

The fact that Pitino hasn't offered Dawson Garcia is a joke . . . 6'10" 4 stars 25 miles from campus with plays like a 6'0 guard. He will fit anywhere. Stupid.

Pitino offered Garcia this afternoon, according to his twitter. Pitino also offered a scholarship to East Ridge's Ben Carlson.
 

2020 is loaded. Would be huge if we got Garcia and Carlson. Obviously Suggs too but that will be tough. Need to get 2019 in state first. Zeke, Tyrell Terry, Matthew Hurt. Too bad David Roddy isn’t like 6 8 instead of 6 6ish cause he’s good.
 

Meanwhile in Indiana. .. This is the first time since 2007 that Indiana has landed the top-ranked senior from the state.
 

Lots of good arguments on both sides on this thread. Whether or not we get 4 star or 3 star players most of us just want to see and experience success. Yes, it's difficult to swallow that other coaches are getting better recruits without being blue bloods (i.e Texas A&M or Vanderbilt) and we see how newer coaches at blue bloods like IU just signed one 5 star and four 4 stars and he just took over a program that has suffered for some time.

People are just fed up with losing games and missing out on our best home grown talent. Whether it's Pitino or someone else the narrative isn't going to change until we start winning. And that doesn't just mean making it to the tourney.

It does start with recruiting but also it comes with coaching our 3 star players up. Just look to our neighbors to the East.
 

Pitino offered Garcia this afternoon, according to his twitter. Pitino also offered a scholarship to East Ridge's Ben Carlson.
Dain Dainja too.

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I’m intrigued by having Damian Johnson come be an assistant. Another guy would be Dave Thorson. I wouldn’t mind in 5 years or so if Andre Hollins came back to coach too. Too bad gophers men don’t have graduate like a Lindsay Whalen for the women’s team.

Damien Johnson has a long ways to go to get that job. Thorson would have to break a promise he gave Medved and agree to be behind Jeter and that is not going to happen.
 

Speaking of Medved I like him as a potential head coach if there was ever an opening
 

Damien Johnson has a long ways to go to get that job. Thorson would have to break a promise he gave Medved and agree to be behind Jeter and that is not going to happen.

As in just getting more coaching experience?
 

As in just getting more coaching experience?

I'm curious, too. In terms of coaching capability and aptitude, he's farther along than Ben Johnson was when he broke into the major college game with Northern Iowa, in my assessment.
 

I'm curious, too. In terms of coaching capability and aptitude, he's farther along than Ben Johnson was when he broke into the major college game with Northern Iowa, in my assessment.

I'd be perfectly comfortable offering Damian the spot unless we have a high level coach strongly considering us. He seems like a high character guy, knows what it takes to play in the Big Ten, has played professionally so he has likely picked up some stuff from all the higher level coaching he has had, has relationships with D1 Minnesota as he used to help coach there, and he chose to live here after growing up somewhere else so kids he recruits will know he's not BSing when he tells them how great Minneapolis is. He doesn't have college coaching experience, but if that was a prerequisite, then no one would ever become a college coach. Give the guy a chance.
 

Is there a rule against giving guys like Damian an analyst/recruiting assistant role that isn't necessarily an assistant coach position?
 

Is there a rule against giving guys like Damian an analyst/recruiting assistant role that isn't necessarily an assistant coach position?

Yes. Can't remember the exact rules, but you can't simply be on staff as a recruiter. If he is going to be getting paid to recruit for us, it will be as an assistant coach.
 

I'd be perfectly comfortable offering Damian the spot unless we have a high level coach strongly considering us. He seems like a high character guy, knows what it takes to play in the Big Ten, has played professionally so he has likely picked up some stuff from all the higher level coaching he has had, has relationships with D1 Minnesota as he used to help coach there, and he chose to live here after growing up somewhere else so kids he recruits will know he's not BSing when he tells them how great Minneapolis is. He doesn't have college coaching experience, but if that was a prerequisite, then no one would ever become a college coach. Give the guy a chance.

You're right about the stuff he's picked up along the way. In his writings and interviews, he's cited both offensive and defensive ideas he's adapted from his pro coaches who he believes are some of the best in the business.
 




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