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  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by MNfootballfan View Post
    I agree with you - the Minneapolis and St. Paul schools are the ones letting down the Gophers. Out of our biggest cities - add Rochester, Mankato, Duluth, St. Cloud etc we get very few players.

    I don't know how many of the EP, Wayzata, CDH, etc players are from the Minneapolis/St. Paul school districts, but it seems like the majority of in-state players are from the South Suburban, Lake Conference, and Suburban East.

    CJ Ham from the Vikings is a player from Duluth that went to Augustana, but your point is correct.
    His point is absolutely incorrect. Every time this situation comes up, people get a chip on their shoulder regarding the out state kids.

    The Twin Cities metro area produces a disproportionate number of our best football players in comparison to other cities., it seems so strange to not include the entire metro area. Suburban and private schools are really good in every single city (in most sports), they have the resources and large schools. It's not that complicated.

    2020 - 8 of 11 of the players are from the metro (6 are actually from Minneapolis/Saint Paul proper). Of the three of them that are not from the metro, two of them are pretty fringe (Big Lake and Buffalo school districts have exploded because they are essentially suburbs now, but to avoid debating this point, we can call them "out state").

    2019 - 10 of 13 of the players from the metro area (6 from Mpls/St. Paul proper).

    2018 - 12 of 13 top players are from the metro area (4 from Mpls/St. Paul proper).

    2017 - 9 of 12 top players are from the metro area (7 from Mpls/St. Paul proper).

    Population of MN = 5.577 million
    Population of MPLS: 413,651
    Populatio of Saint Paul: 302,398
    Combined MPLS/Saint Paul proper: 716,049
    Twin Cities metro area population: 3.600 million

    Roughly 13% of the state's population lives in Minneapolis or Saint Paul proper.
    Roughly 64.5% of the state's population lives in the Twin Cities metro area.

    The metro is certainly kicking out their "fair share" of D1 football players, specifically the two main cities.


    For a point of reference, check WI. Less than 1/2 of their best recruits are from the Milwaukee metro, and only 1 of their top 10 recruits in 2017-2020 is from Milwaukee proper.

    Per capita, the Twin Cities metro area is putting out way more D1 football players than the Milwaukee metro area (and it's not even close to compare MPLS or Saint Paul to Milwaukee proper). They just have way more out-state D1 athletes. It's because they have more decent-sized towns where iron sharpens iron and creates better football programs.


  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by highwayman View Post
    Its "underrated" because we don't like it. The elite athletes are stolen away from football by hockey at a young age. Add the best 20 hockey players to the pool and it's pretty substantial.

    You can try to compare MN with other states of the same size and it doesn't matter. HS hockey has god-like status like nowhere else. Minnesota will never gain be able to produce elite talent in football. Never again--unless hockey goes away.

    You can keep going in circles on "underrating" and "DII" and "North Dakota", but the answer is VERY clear. Mom and dad look at hockey as their meal ticket, and football would get in the way of that.
    Some of this might be true, but I have never thought the same type of hockey athlete translates to the football field. My guess is that only a 20-30 percent of elite hockey players abilities transfers to football. I just don't take much stock in your premise.

  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonTXGopher View Post
    Some of this might be true, but I have never thought the same type of hockey athlete translates to the football field. My guess is that only a 20-30 percent of elite hockey players abilities transfers to football. I just don't take much stock in your premise.
    You are certainly knowledgeable but Dustin Byfuglien is 100%. Yes he is from MN and would have looked good on the football field in Maroon and Gold. There are some others but he is 6 ft 5 inch, 260 lb Hockey player. I heard he has a home in/on Minnetonka.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp1ilrSsOeM

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dustin_Byfuglien

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by dpodoll68 View Post
    I don't buy the premise. There's no reason why Iowa or Iowa St. should be able to "scour the state" of Iowa any better than Minnesota, or Northwestern, or even Alabama or USC. Things like geographic distance aren't the prohibitive constraints they once were before the advent of cheap and easy air travel.
    It's two staffs sifting through fewer instate players. How does that not make it easier than one staff sifting through a larger pool of players?

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    If 4-6 are offered by P5 schools, there are 4-6. Recruiters will find talent wherever it is. Kids also have the opportunity to go to summer camps and demonstrate their ability. Some kids will develop beyond what was expected of them as high school players, but that doesn't necessarily mean recruiters missed on them if no one thought they would develop into a P5 player.

    As for Iowa, why is it difficult to believe that they produce more P5 players per capita? Football is a higher priority in many states. I'm guessing no one would question that Minnesota produces more high school hockey talent and no one in Iowa would say they are even with us in hockey and that they just need to find the talented hockey players in their state.
    I could only find data for 2016, but there were 20 kids in the NFL from MN high schools vs 14 for Iowa. 9 of the 20 from MN did not play for FBS schools. Only 4 of 14 from Iowa failed to play for a FBS team (9 of the 10 played for Iowa). Small sample size, but I think it suggests that the talent in MN is being missed much more often than it is in Iowa. And if a kid can develop into an NFL caliber player and doesn't get an offer, then yes, recruiters absolutely did miss on him. Just because every team misses on a player doesn't mean that should be dismissed as "how could we possibly have known". Iowa regularly is finding these kids and offering them scholarships. Minnesota does not. It's not difficult to believe that Iowa produces more player per capita, but twice as many as MN is producing despite the 2 million person disadvantage? That's pretty hard to believe. The NFL player coming out of each state suggests that MN actually has more talent (maybe not per capita, but that's not the argument).

  6. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonTXGopher View Post
    Some of this might be true, but I have never thought the same type of hockey athlete translates to the football field. My guess is that only a 20-30 percent of elite hockey players abilities transfers to football. I just don't take much stock in your premise.
    What skills to football players possess that are not possessed by hockey players?

    I get the issue with size, but most of those big boys weren't going to be playing hockey anyways. The tiny guys wouldn't have ever been D1 football players, but every year, there is a large group of 6'3" - 6'4" 200 - 210 lbs athletes who are explosive athletes that go the hockey route.

    It's hard not to imagine that a good number of those guys couldn't have been D1 football players.

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Loblaw View Post
    What skills to football players possess that are not possessed by hockey players?

    I get the issue with size, but most of those big boys weren't going to be playing hockey anyways. The tiny guys wouldn't have ever been D1 football players, but every year, there is a large group of 6'3" - 6'4" 200 - 210 lbs athletes who are explosive athletes that go the hockey route.

    It's hard not to imagine that a good number of those guys couldn't have been D1 football players.
    Look no further than JJ Watt.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Loblaw View Post
    What skills to football players possess that are not possessed by hockey players?

    I get the issue with size, but most of those big boys weren't going to be playing hockey anyways. The tiny guys wouldn't have ever been D1 football players, but every year, there is a large group of 6'3" - 6'4" 200 - 210 lbs athletes who are explosive athletes that go the hockey route.

    It's hard not to imagine that a good number of those guys couldn't have been D1 football players.
    I think that some people (not necessarily you, but some people), just assume that because player X is really good at one sport, then he would be really good at another sport. That's not always the case.

    some athletes just have an affinity for a certain sport. Call it instincts, or innate ability, but whatever "it" is, some kids just have "it" when they step on a football field, or an ice rink. but, "it" doesn't necessarily carry over to another sport. those hockey instincts may be specific to the sport.

    I've seen kids who are just natural talents at hockey, but average at other sports. or vice-versa

    and some of this has to do with the specialization factor. in some cases,

    the kids who play hockey year-round are good because they play hockey year-round. if they were splitting time between hockey and another sport, they might not be as good at either sport.

    So - I just don't think you can assume that star hockey player X would also be star Football player X. Kids with D1 talent in more than one sport are pretty rare.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Loblaw View Post
    What skills to football players possess that are not possessed by hockey players?

    I get the issue with size, but most of those big boys weren't going to be playing hockey anyways. The tiny guys wouldn't have ever been D1 football players, but every year, there is a large group of 6'3" - 6'4" 200 - 210 lbs athletes who are explosive athletes that go the hockey route.

    It's hard not to imagine that a good number of those guys couldn't have been D1 football players.
    Speed, speed and more speed. Those 6'3" 210 pound athlete is probably not blessed with Division I football speed.

    I would like to know which hockey players you think would have excelled on the football field? I assume you can come up with 10-15 Minnesota high school hockey players that could translate at an elite level to the football field.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by short ornery norwegian View Post
    I think that some people (not necessarily you, but some people), just assume that because player X is really good at one sport, then he would be really good at another sport. That's not always the case.

    some athletes just have an affinity for a certain sport. Call it instincts, or innate ability, but whatever "it" is, some kids just have "it" when they step on a football field, or an ice rink. but, "it" doesn't necessarily carry over to another sport. those hockey instincts may be specific to the sport.

    I've seen kids who are just natural talents at hockey, but average at other sports. or vice-versa

    and some of this has to do with the specialization factor. in some cases,

    the kids who play hockey year-round are good because they play hockey year-round. if they were splitting time between hockey and another sport, they might not be as good at either sport.

    So - I just don't think you can assume that star hockey player X would also be star Football player X. Kids with D1 talent in more than one sport are pretty rare.
    Ever seen John Wall throw a baseball lol

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  11. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonTXGopher View Post
    Speed, speed and more speed. Those 6'3" 210 pound athlete is probably not blessed with Division I football speed.

    I would like to know which hockey players you think would have excelled on the football field? I assume you can come up with 10-15 Minnesota high school hockey players that could translate at an elite level to the football field.

    Here's a few who did. Way back...Mariucci actually played both at the U. Gino Guyer, Anders Lee, and Paul Martin were all-state FB players. Joe Dziedzic was Metro FB player of the year in 1989 and Mr. Hockey in 1990. Jack Sadek's dad and grandfather played FB at the U, he played until high school (QB) but decided to concentrate on hockey.

  12. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by short ornery norwegian View Post
    I think that some people (not necessarily you, but some people), just assume that because player X is really good at one sport, then he would be really good at another sport. That's not always the case.

    some athletes just have an affinity for a certain sport. Call it instincts, or innate ability, but whatever "it" is, some kids just have "it" when they step on a football field, or an ice rink. but, "it" doesn't necessarily carry over to another sport. those hockey instincts may be specific to the sport.

    I've seen kids who are just natural talents at hockey, but average at other sports. or vice-versa

    and some of this has to do with the specialization factor. in some cases,

    the kids who play hockey year-round are good because they play hockey year-round. if they were splitting time between hockey and another sport, they might not be as good at either sport.

    So - I just don't think you can assume that star hockey player X would also be star Football player X. Kids with D1 talent in more than one sport are pretty rare.
    D1 multi-sport talent exists more than you think, so I would not call it rare. Playing both FB and hockey at college level would be extremely challenging given the schedules, but that does not mean it is rare that level of talent combo exists. Baseball/Football is the most likely and common.

  13. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Loblaw View Post
    What skills to football players possess that are not possessed by hockey players?

    I get the issue with size, but most of those big boys weren't going to be playing hockey anyways. The tiny guys wouldn't have ever been D1 football players, but every year, there is a large group of 6'3" - 6'4" 200 - 210 lbs athletes who are explosive athletes that go the hockey route.

    It's hard not to imagine that a good number of those guys couldn't have been D1 football players.
    Besides running, throwing, catching, kicking, and tackling?

  14. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMWinSTP View Post
    Here's a few who did. Way back...Mariucci actually played both at the U. Gino Guyer, Anders Lee, and Paul Martin were all-state FB players. Joe Dziedzic was Metro FB player of the year in 1989 and Mr. Hockey in 1990. Jack Sadek's dad and grandfather played FB at the U, he played until high school (QB) but decided to concentrate on hockey.

    Carter, Jenke, also Buetow (I think).

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMWinSTP View Post
    Here's a few who did. Way back...Mariucci actually played both at the U. Gino Guyer, Anders Lee, and Paul Martin were all-state FB players. Joe Dziedzic was Metro FB player of the year in 1989 and Mr. Hockey in 1990. Jack Sadek's dad and grandfather played FB at the U, he played until high school (QB) but decided to concentrate on hockey.
    Mark Alt and Ryan McDonaugh were qbs at Cretin. Alt had an Iowa offer. Joey Miller won a prep bowl against McDonaugh for Wayzata as a qb.

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