2018 Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread

BleedGopher

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Well, here we are, another off-season with a lot of question marks.

Doogie dropped a lot of hot takes in the last 48 hours citing sources saying everything from Glen Taylor not being happy to the front office marketing and sales folks not being a cohesive unit.

Howl Wolves!!
 

Somehow they need to move Wiggins and Dieng and get a couple of 3 pt shooters and a center who can play defense. I have no idea if that's possible or who would be available, but those contracts will kill the Wolves for the foreseeable future.
 

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Howl Wolves!!
 

They need actual shooters. They messed up on Wiggins, he's not what they thought he was. Is he even movable with his contract (I'm not as good at NBA contracts as football or other sports)?
 

They need actual shooters. They messed up on Wiggins, he's not what they thought he was. Is he even movable with his contract (I'm not as good at NBA contracts as football or other sports)?

That's the big question. I feel like someone would look at his age, see his flashes of dominance, and think they can get that out of him more often then the Wolves did.
 


That's the big question. I feel like someone would look at his age, see his flashes of dominance, and think they can get that out of him more often then the Wolves did.

I absolutely think the right coach/team could more out of him than we did. Not sure what's wrong with him, definitely a mental thing. He's got a ridiculous amount of natural talent but you only see it for a game or half here and there. That's why I think the rumors for trade with the Spurs isn't that wild. Pop may be able to harness whatever is within him. It's just frustrating because if we had good wiggins even 50% of the time we would have been in the 3 spot and likely won our first series.
 

I absolutely think the right coach/team could more out of him than we did. Not sure what's wrong with him, definitely a mental thing. He's got a ridiculous amount of natural talent but you only see it for a game or half here and there. That's why I think the rumors for trade with the Spurs isn't that wild. Pop may be able to harness whatever is within him. It's just frustrating because if we had good wiggins even 50% of the time we would have been in the 3 spot and likely won our first series.

I agree. Likelihood is small, but maybe Pop think he can get a lot out of him. A more likely trade might be Butler for Leonard straight up
 

Off season steps

1. Taylor needs to eat Thibs money (keep Layden if you want) and get a real coach in here.

This is the first and only step. Franchise can't move forward without a new vision. I don't care if Taylor has to hire someone young and on the cheap to balance out the Thibs buyout.

You can't make any other moves until this happens.

After it happens......

2. See if Butler is happy with the new coach. If not, ship him out if they can get another superstar in return or a good package.
3. Get a shot blocker in here. A Capela clone that can also get away with moving screens. Everyone wants to rip on Wiggins, but Towns is way worse at D. He is so bad, he needs to play next to a true rim protector.

After this, I dont know what else to do until you know what system the new coach is running.

Teague - drives me nuts. He's either really good or really bad. At his worst, he makes bad passing decisions and lots of o-lay defense.
Towns and Wigs - not trading either. Towns isnt untouchble, and Wigs is untradeable
Gibson - he was great this year, but due to Towns inability to be a rim protector, Gibson might have to go if they can get an asset that could turn into a shot blocker. He is an expiring contract
Dieng - I still think he has game. But I think inconsistent minutes messed up his game. His contract is big and he is undtradeabe, but I think can still contribute to a winning team
Jones - solid backup, but will be nothing more (although he ran first team well when JT was hurt)
Crawford - All these years I wanted him on the Wolves. But I had my one year fix, and I hope he opts out. Unless he's on fire, hes just too much of a liability out there.
Rose - I was so wrong about him. I would definitley have him back to back up JT, and possibly be a closer in the fourth quarter. I was so impressed
Belly - he wont be back, but I think he'll be good on another team. Way too inconsistent.
Butler - already the second best player in Wolves history. I hope he stays if Thibs goes, not holding my breath

Id try and trade Teague, Gibson, and Dieng for the right pieces. Also make sure Butler is happy if Thibs goes, otherwise he gets traded too

Top priority: Glen needs to find some balls and can Thibs. He has to not think about the cash but the long term future of the franchie
 

Off season steps

!1. Taylor needs to eat Thibs money (keep Layden if you want) and get a real coach in here.

Thibs is a real coach. He’s just not the right coach for the non former Bulls players on this team. I agree that he needs to go. The value of the team exceeds $1B. Taylor should be able to eat the $30M.


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Thibs is a real coach. He’s just not the right coach for the non former Bulls players on this team. I agree that he needs to go. The value of the team exceeds $1B. Taylor should be able to eat the $30M.


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He's a real assistant coach
 

Get rid of the grouch. The Butler excuse for the 8th seed is ridiculous as the Wolves were one of the healthiest teams in the league. Thibs ruined the cap space situation by overpaying for some and the max happening earlier than it had to. Imagine if he would have waited for the off-season with Wiggins.

Taylor needs to really consider what the next few years will look like with Thibs. Why would any legit F/A want to come here? How would they get better always drafting in the teens or early 20's?

Getting to the playoffs with that roster was close to automatic and they still had to sneak in. I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would think Thibs did a good job.
 

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Souhan: Trading Andrew Wiggins is Timberwolves' best bet

Wiggins is young, healthy and durable. He will be 23 at the beginning of next season. He has plenty of time to grow into a superstar, if his personality will allow such growth.

Butler’s decision will affect Thibodeau and the entire Wolves hierarchy. Thibodeau came to Minnesota to capitalize on dynamic young talent and win big. He quickly determined that waiting for a trio of youngsters to develop was not in his best interest.

If the Wolves don’t win big next season and Butler leaves, Thibodeau will become a lame-duck coach no matter what his contract says.

Thibodeau has tied himself to Butler. Butler has not tied his future to Minnesota. That awkward reality is at the heart of the Wolves’ problems and potential.

It is always thus in the NBA, a league that fluctuates according to the moods of its stars.

Thibodeau can’t afford to lose Butler, or make the wrong decision on Wiggins.

I’d trade Wiggins, cast my lot with Butler, and try to replace Wiggins with three-point shooting and defensive toughness.

Winning NBA playoff games requires athletic bravery — the willingness to go hard to the basket and take a hit, the toughness to defend the rim against powerful men like James Harden and P.J. Tucker, the resolve to take and make big shots under pressure.

Butler has it. If the Wolves don’t believe Wiggins can develop it, they might as well get rid of him now.

http://www.startribune.com/trading-andrew-wiggins-is-timberwolves-best-bet/480951011/

Howl Wolves!!
 



First put this in the other Timberwolves thread.

Wouldn't disagree that Taylor is the biggest problem. Would also point out that any buyer who's willing to pay close to "market value" for the team is gonna move it. Period. Here's an article from The Ringer talking about what the Wolves and their fans may be facing.


Is Thibodeau’s Seat Warming Up?

This Change.org petition to fire Thibodeau got 12 new signatures in the time it took me to write this sentence. The top comment reads: “Please demote yourself to associate head coach. … You seem to be as emotionally draining as you are physically draining.” That was posted one week ago. The petition was created 11 months ago. Thibodeau’s approval rating was never higher than when he was introduced in Minneapolis almost exactly two years ago. It’s been a steady fall ever since. It might be at its lowest now.

Here’s a mounting list of things Wolves fans tried to overlook:

1. Thibodeau getting the ol’ Bulls band back together rather than signing any shooters, which kind of seems like something one of the worst 3-point-shooting teams in the league should do. Taj Gibson turned out to be a necessity, but even still, the man has no range. Rose has never come remotely close to even league-average percentages, and Jamal Crawford’s shooting numbers haven’t matched his reputation in more than five years— though that doesn’t stop them from taking the shots that they do.

2. Doubling down on his reputation of playing guys into the ground. Three of this season’s starters (Wiggins, Towns, and Gibson) finished in the top 15 of total minutes played; if Butler hadn’t been sidelined for a 17-game stretch, he’d be right there with them.

3. Forty-eight minutes of hellishly hoarse yelling.

4. Coaching one of the worst defenses in the NBA despite the hype of defensive genius stemming from his time with the Celtics and Bulls.

5. Pairing that defense with an offense that featured a lot of isolation and post-ups, without the floor spacing that makes it work.

Taylor doesn’t seem content with his big investment, either, and might be more inclined to take action than he has in the past. His words last week: “We should probably wait until the playoffs are done [to evaluate Thibodeau’s performance]. Bringing him in was for the playoffs. You get a seasoned coach to get into the playoffs. That’s when you have to show that your coaching abilities are near the top. We’ll wait and see.”..

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/4...offs-thibodeau
 

STrib: Timberwolves got a peek into the second season

Timberwolves veteran guard Jamal Crawford deemed the season that just was a “success” while young star Andrew Wiggins chose to call it an “improvement” instead.

By whatever evaluation, the Wolves’ 47-victory regular season and first-round, five-game playoff loss to Houston were important experiences for a franchise that hadn’t made the postseason since 2004.

Before ending that drought, the Wolves played for weeks in games that often felt — and were officiated — like playoff games. Only an overtime victory over Denver on the regular season’s final night allowed them to play on.

All of it was new for Wiggins, Karl-Anthony Towns, Tyus Jones and five other roster-eligible players who’d never reached the playoffs.

“It’s huge,” Wolves coach Tom Thibodeau said. “The last month of the season was really good for us because of how tight the race was. In many ways, it was similar to playoff experience. Having the final game of the season mean so much — whether you were going to get in or not get in — had a Game 7 feel to it. That helped us going in, and then to measure yourself against the Rockets with their record and season, it was good. We learned a lot from that.

“We can take the lessons learned and move forward.”

http://www.startribune.com/timberwolves-got-a-peek-into-the-second-season/481015291/

Howl Wolves!!
 

STrib: Timberwolves got a peek into the second season

Timberwolves veteran guard Jamal Crawford deemed the season that just was a “success” while young star Andrew Wiggins chose to call it an “improvement” instead.

By whatever evaluation, the Wolves’ 47-victory regular season and first-round, five-game playoff loss to Houston were important experiences for a franchise that hadn’t made the postseason since 2004.

Before ending that drought, the Wolves played for weeks in games that often felt — and were officiated — like playoff games. Only an overtime victory over Denver on the regular season’s final night allowed them to play on.

All of it was new for Wiggins, Karl-Anthony Towns, Tyus Jones and five other roster-eligible players who’d never reached the playoffs.

“It’s huge,” Wolves coach Tom Thibodeau said. “The last month of the season was really good for us because of how tight the race was. In many ways, it was similar to playoff experience. Having the final game of the season mean so much — whether you were going to get in or not get in — had a Game 7 feel to it. That helped us going in, and then to measure yourself against the Rockets with their record and season, it was good. We learned a lot from that.

“We can take the lessons learned and move forward.”

http://www.startribune.com/timberwolves-got-a-peek-into-the-second-season/481015291/

Howl Wolves!!

This is crap. Sorry, Thib's quotes might fly if they didnt have Butler, JT, Crawford, Rose, and Gibson. These quotes might fly if they had Dunn, Lavine, Markkennen, Thibs quotes might fly if they had all youngsters still and half of their rotation wasnt playoff vets. This team has the talent to be way better. Thibs drags them down.

As David Thorpe said, they could have had no coach and ended up with the same record, Meaning, they need a good coach to come in and add some value.

Glen Taylor, I beg you, fire him.
 

Off season steps

1. Taylor needs to eat Thibs money (keep Layden if you want) and get a real coach in here.

This is the first and only step. Franchise can't move forward without a new vision. I don't care if Taylor has to hire someone young and on the cheap to balance out the Thibs buyout.

You can't make any other moves until this happens.

After it happens......

2. See if Butler is happy with the new coach. If not, ship him out if they can get another superstar in return or a good package.
3. Get a shot blocker in here. A Capela clone that can also get away with moving screens. Everyone wants to rip on Wiggins, but Towns is way worse at D. He is so bad, he needs to play next to a true rim protector.

After this, I dont know what else to do until you know what system the new coach is running.

Teague - drives me nuts. He's either really good or really bad. At his worst, he makes bad passing decisions and lots of o-lay defense.
Towns and Wigs - not trading either. Towns isnt untouchble, and Wigs is untradeable
Gibson - he was great this year, but due to Towns inability to be a rim protector, Gibson might have to go if they can get an asset that could turn into a shot blocker. He is an expiring contract
Dieng - I still think he has game. But I think inconsistent minutes messed up his game. His contract is big and he is undtradeabe, but I think can still contribute to a winning team
Jones - solid backup, but will be nothing more (although he ran first team well when JT was hurt)
Crawford - All these years I wanted him on the Wolves. But I had my one year fix, and I hope he opts out. Unless he's on fire, hes just too much of a liability out there.
Rose - I was so wrong about him. I would definitley have him back to back up JT, and possibly be a closer in the fourth quarter. I was so impressed
Belly - he wont be back, but I think he'll be good on another team. Way too inconsistent.
Butler - already the second best player in Wolves history. I hope he stays if Thibs goes, not holding my breath

Id try and trade Teague, Gibson, and Dieng for the right pieces. Also make sure Butler is happy if Thibs goes, otherwise he gets traded too

Top priority: Glen needs to find some balls and can Thibs. He has to not think about the cash but the long term future of the franchie
...and 29 years later the Wolves make the playoffs again...
 



If your strategy is implemented.

Please. The only thing I want is Thibs gone. And if that means Butler has to go, so be it. They will get helpful assets for him. Other than that, I have no strategy until I know who the new coach is.
 

We finally make the playoffs for the first time in 14 years, and suddenly everyone wants to fire the coach/GM and gut the roster. What am I missing here?
 


They should be better.

Ok. So we are supposed to go from 14 years of mostly embarrassing performances straight to the 2nd round and beyond? Does that seem realistic to you? How often has that ever happened? About the only example I can think of, actually, is this year's 76ers - and even they have only been bad for the last 4 years.
 

Ok. So we are supposed to go from 14 years of mostly embarrassing performances straight to the 2nd round and beyond? Does that seem realistic to you? How often has that ever happened? About the only example I can think of, actually, is this year's 76ers - and even they have only been bad for the last 4 years.

You act as if we had a better playoff position and then a key player got hurt and come back less than 100% right before the playoffs and we had to play the #1 seed![emoji41]


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Please. The only thing I want is Thibs gone. And if that means Butler has to go, so be it. They will get helpful assets for him. Other than that, I have no strategy until I know who the new coach is.
Thibs as GM, but not coach? I can accept that alternative. Butler should stay. Wiggins...gawd what an awful contract for the Wolves.
 

Ok. So we are supposed to go from 14 years of mostly embarrassing performances straight to the 2nd round and beyond? Does that seem realistic to you? How often has that ever happened? About the only example I can think of, actually, is this year's 76ers - and even they have only been bad for the last 4 years.

Sure, its great. My point is Thibs the coach didnt push them there. Thibs the coach isnt responsible for making the playoffs. The defense is terrible. The offense is good because they have some really good iso offensive players.
 

Sure, its great. My point is Thibs the coach didnt push them there. Thibs the coach isnt responsible for making the playoffs. The defense is terrible. The offense is good because they have some really good iso offensive players.

If only the guy running things last year hadn't completely bungled his signings. If only he had signed 2 or 3 players who could have been useful this season. Or even 1 player last year who could have been been a useful part of the rotation this year. But he didn't. He didn't even sign a single player who could have helped them last year or this.

Yeah, you're a little out of line blaming the Head Coach alone for not being able to weather the storm when Butler got hurt. The same way Coaches who lost Curry, Harden, Irving, Hayward, Wall, Cousins, Parker, Leonard, etc. all were able to do.

Head Coach Thibodeau, who was able to direct the team last year to a total of two more wins than they did in 2016, didn't have a chance to finish much higher in the standings, because he's wasn't given the roster to do it. They were mediocre as hell when Butler went down.

You need to blame the guy who put last year's and this years roster together too. That guy didn't do his job.
 

That guy in charge of things the last two seasons also gave Wiggins his max deal, tried to give Shabazz a 4 year $40 million deal and did give Gorgui his 4 year, $64 million deal in October of 2016. He eventually signed Shabazz to a $1.7 million one year deal.

His Free Agent signings then were Hill, Aldrich, Rush, Casspi, John LucasIII, Dunn, Stephenson, Teague, Justin Patton, Gibson, Rose, Shabazz, Marcus Georges-Hunt and Brooks. There may be others. Think they added anything?

O for 7 last season. 2 for 7 this season.

2 for 14 over two years. Book is still out on Wiggins and Dieng. The trade of Butler and Patton for Dunn, LaVine and Lauri Markkanen has been a very good deal for the Wolves. So far at least.

That guy should go. Ironically a guy who threw money around like it didn't count, will probably stay because he'd be too expensive to release.
 

STrib: Wolves reached owner Glen Taylor's expectations, but ...

The Timberwolves won 16 more regular-season games than last year and reached the playoffs for the first time since 2004. The latter is an achievement owner Glen Taylor expected his team would reach when it traded for All-Star Jimmy Butler last summer and signed several veteran free agents, including two other starters.

"I thought with the changes we made, the people we brought in, the sacrifices we made in moving some young, potential people, that we needed to be in the playoffs," Taylor said Friday, two days after his team lost a first-round playoff series to Houston in five games. "Those were my expectations."

The Wolves reached them by beating Denver on the regular season's final night to advance after they had been as high as third in the Western Conference before Butler sustained a February knee injury that sidelined him for 17 games. It didn't help, either, that Wolves lost several games to bottom feeders Orlando, Atlanta, Chicago, Brooklyn, Phoenix and Memphis.

After his team beat Denver in the season finale, Taylor said "thank goodness" his team won.

On Wednesday night, Wolves coach/president of basketball operations Tom Thibodeau called himself "very proud" of a team that made a "major jump" when it won 47 regular-season games and reached the playoffs after it had been so far down the past 14 years.

Taylor called himself pleased with the first winning season since 2005 and a team that drew 18 sellout crowds back to Target Center this season, but disappointed it couldn't position itself better for the playoffs and achieve home-court advantage awarded to the Western Conference top four teams.

"We certainly played a lot better," Taylor said. "Bringing a product to our fans that they really enjoyed and got involved in, we hit that one. I think they liked how we played. We wanted to get in the playoffs and we did that. But on the things we didn't quite make, I had hoped we'd get home-court advantage. At one time, it looked like we had the team that could get there and then Jimmy's injury really set us back. That was disappointing, but not much we could do about that except if we would have won more games while Jimmy was hurt.

"As a whole, yes, we reached my expectations. Did I see things we can be better at? Yes."

http://www.startribune.com/wolves-reached-owner-glen-taylor-s-expectations-but/481090621/

Howl Wolves!!
 

2 years later: Evaluating the Tom Thibodeau and Bruce Boudreau hires - Randball

The criticism of Thibodeau in Chicago stemmed less from his results and more from his methods. Bulls players logged heavy minutes, and Thibodeau eventually wore out his welcome. He was fired after five seasons, with two years and $9 million remaining on his contract.

Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf delivered a somewhat icy statement upon Thibodeau’s departure: “When everyone is on the same page, trust develops and teams can grow and succeed together. Unfortunately, there has been a departure from this culture. To ensure that the Chicago Bulls can continue to grow and succeed, we have decided that a change in the head coaching position is required. Days like today are difficult, but necessary for us to achieve our goals and fulfill our commitments to our fans.”

If the hope was that Thibodeau’s year off would produce healthy changes, it’s hard to say that has occurred. Starters are still playing heavy minutes, and Thibodeau is still being criticized for it. Evidence of growth on the Wolves has been limited, with their improvement this year primarily linked to Thibodeau’s acquisition of veteran players — old pal Jimmy Butler chief among them.

The Wolves won this year with offense, while Thibodeau’s Bulls tended to win with defense. But while the method is different, the biggest check mark on the positive side of the Thibodeau’s ledger appears to still be his ability to get teams to grind out victories. That’s a mighty big positive and in some ways trumps everything else — at least until it doesn’t, as happened in what turned into a toxic all-around situation in Chicago for which plenty of people probably share blame...


http://www.startribune.com/two-year...thibodeau-and-bruce-boudreau-hires/481080031/
 




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