Andy Staples: Success for Fleck would be akin to what Ferentz has done at Iowa

graydon

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Answering the question, "Can you remember a conference nailing as many recent coaching hires as the Big Ten? Jeff Brohm is great, Scott Frost and P.J. Fleck seem to be good fits, and Paul Chryst and Jim Harbaugh are top-notch. Only the Lovie Smith experiment seems to be a failure.", Andy Staples includes the following paragraph in his answer:

"Success for Fleck would be something akin to what Ferentz has done at Iowa. The Golden Gophers should be solid most years with the occasional run at a division title. But even that standard will be difficult to achieve if Frost and Brohm are doing their jobs well. The fan base could get restless if the Gophers can’t crack .500 in league play in the next two years."

https://www.si.com/college-football/2018/03/14/big-ten-coaches-pj-fleck-oklahoma-mailbag
 

Disagree, success for Fleck will be achieving levels familiar to Wisconsin. I would argue we were already at Iowa's level with Kill/Clayes. It has been a very long time since Iowa went to that orange bowl.
 

Being successful at MN would be more of an achievement than what Ferentz has done (not knocking Ferentz).

Ferentz followed Hayden Fry (three Rose Bowls).
 

Disagree, success for Fleck will be achieving levels familiar to Wisconsin. I would argue we were already at Iowa's level with Kill/Clayes. It has been a very long time since Iowa went to that orange bowl.

Iowa was 12-0 in 2015 regular season and went to the Rose Bowl. I would take it.
 

Disagree, success for Fleck will be achieving levels familiar to Wisconsin. I would argue we were already at Iowa's level with Kill/Clayes. It has been a very long time since Iowa went to that orange bowl.

How do you figure?

Ferentz has recorded at least 4 seasons (2002, 2004, 2009, 2015) that are FAR SUPERIOR to anything we've achieved since 1967.
 


How do you figure?

Ferentz has recorded at least 4 seasons (2002, 2004, 2009, 2015) that are FAR SUPERIOR to anything we've achieved since 1967.

So maybe a level similar to Iowa is considered to be successful but we strive for being similar to Wisconsin?. Don't disagree entirely with grimey.


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We would all be delighted with an Iowa level success-Stability in coach, strong local base of fans and recruits, challenging for Big West, an occasional Rose Bowl and relevant Bowl Games.
We want/expect to be at the Wiso level-in conversation for National titles, in the mix for Big title game.

We are far away from both in regard to fanbase, program stability, pipeline to NFL, and overall relevancy. Hopefully, the new facilities, enthusiasm and (wait for it...) Culture will allow us to close the gap between the border schools and keep us above the middlings in the conference.
 

It's always a rollercoaster with Ferentz. They went to the Orange Bowl in 2009, Rose Bowl in 2015. In between they went 19-21 in the Big Ten.
 

So maybe a level similar to Iowa is considered to be successful but we strive for being similar to Wisconsin?. Don't disagree entirely with grimey.
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Obviously we should strive to someday reach Wisconsin's level, but you have to crawl before you can walk. Reaching Iowa's level would be a good initial step.

Grimey claimed that the Kill/Claeys regime was already on the Iowa level, which is simply untrue.
 



It's always a rollercoaster with Ferentz. They went to the Orange Bowl in 2009, Rose Bowl in 2015. In between they went 19-21 in the Big Ten.

Yes, Ferentz has been cyclical. But even his downside -- nearly .500 in conference over a six-year period -- would be an improvement for us. We haven't had even three straight years of .500 since 1976-1978. Our down years are worse, and his good years are much better.
 

Disagree, success for Fleck will be achieving levels familiar to Wisconsin. I would argue we were already at Iowa's level with Kill/Clayes. It has been a very long time since Iowa went to that orange bowl.

The previous regime did not come close to Iowa's level.
 

It's always a rollercoaster with Ferentz. They went to the Orange Bowl in 2009, Rose Bowl in 2015. In between they went 19-21 in the Big Ten.

I'll take that every 5-6 years. Stop firing coaching and let the cycle play out. Mason could have done this with a new stadium and Kill could have if not for health situation. Fleck not doubt can do this. Back when Claeys was fired my choices were fire him or give him an 8 year contract, nothing in between. Commit to a program and let it ride.
 

This program, that program examples are silly.

Every program has different challenges and thus the results need to be measured differently.
 



Feremtz has obviously plateaued because the fan base is not supportive enough. There is at least as much discord in their fan base over their coaches and schemes and their inability to reach the upper tier as there has ever been here. For example, even though 12-0 is impressive on the face of it he Rose Bowl beatdown at the hands of Stanford was seen as a negative and an indictment of Ferentz.
 

Since 2011, when Kill took over... we have played Iowa fairly close. The only outlier that would suggest Iowa is a far supperior program in that timespan is the 2015 season where Iowa ran the B10 table. This was a product of an insanely easy schedule and Iowa got absolutely stomped in the Rose Bowl.

Kill/Claeys had us a game away from the B10W regular season title twice... I will concede that Iowa may be a half step above where we are but to say they are a far supperior program is ludicrious and I will firmly dissagree with that sentiment.

And if you read my post...you would see that I gave Iowa credit back for 2002-2004 where they were a fantastic team.
 


Since 2011, when Kill took over... we have played Iowa fairly close. The only outlier that would suggest Iowa is a far supperior program in that timespan is the 2015 season where Iowa ran the B10 table. This was a product of an insanely easy schedule and Iowa got absolutely stomped in the Rose Bowl.

Kill/Claeys had us a game away from the B10W regular season title twice... I will concede that Iowa may be a half step above where we are but to say they are a far supperior program is ludicrious and I will firmly dissagree with that sentiment.

And if you read my post...you would see that I gave Iowa credit back for 2002-2004 where they were a fantastic team.

You can firmly disagree if you like, but the numbers simply do not back up that sentiment.
 

You can firmly disagree if you like, but the numbers simply do not back up that sentiment.

Fair enough. I know it is certainly not a very scientific way of judging programs...but over the last 4/5 years I have never felt that Iowa was far supperior to us. I mean just look at the scores, many of the games were one score games, Iowa blew us out in 2012/2013 but we beat them 51-14 in 2014. Like I said, I will agree that Iowa is a slightly better program than us, but not the wide "chasm" between us and Wisconsin.
 

So, Ferentz has won two conference titles (albeit pre champ game), one division title and seven bowl games while also earning a Rose Bowl appearance, six ranked finishes and only a few losing seasons. I know there were down years and there have been ups and downs for sure. But, Ferentz has won a lot of games, some of them being very important. If Fleck gave this program something like that, relatively speaking, that could be looked at as a success.
 

Kill won 14 conference games in his time here. In the last 3 seasons Ferentz has won 18

Kill won 40% of his big ten games. Ferentz has won 56%.



I’d say they are pretty much equal.
 


I'd take Iowa like run, but prefer shoot higher
 

Kill won 14 conference games in his time here. In the last 3 seasons Ferentz has won 18

Kill won 40% of his big ten games. Ferentz has won 56%.



I’d say they are pretty much equal.

I wouldn't based on the very stats you provided.
 

There is no reason other than inertia we cannot surpass Iowa, or Wisconsin, or Nebraska. If PJ can bring in talent, and it appears he can, we are positioned to be a competitive team going forward. Talent can bring wins, wins bring crowds, and crowds bring money in a virtuous cycle. I could say money brings talent to complete the circle but that is only true in the NFL...
 

Iowa was 12-0 in 2015 regular season and went to the Rose Bowl. I would take it.
Embarrass themselves or not they made it. When was the last time our squad has been there? Longer than I've been alive and I'm not a young man. It's sad. Geez Purdue, Illinois and Northwestern have gotten there in the last how many years! Please PJ get us to Iowa and then scoot us over to Wisky level and then we can start talking.
 

Since 2011, when Kill took over... we have played Iowa fairly close.

Since Kill took over in 2011:

Iowa is 33-25 in Big Ten games
Minnesota is 22-36 in Big Ten games

Iowa has gone to a Rose Bowl, Outback Bowl twice, a Gator Bowl, and Pinstripe.
Minnesota has gone to a Citrus Bowl, Holiday Bowl, Detroit (at 5-7), and Houston twice.

Iowa is 5-2 vs. Minnesota since 2011.

Iowa has played in the Big Ten Championship Game and nearly made the college football playoffs.



Kill/Claeys had us a game away from the B10W regular season title twice.

We were a win away from the Big Ten regular season once (in 2014) and lost at Wisconsin after leading 17-3. That is the only time we were a game away under Kill/Claeys.

Ferentz has won two Big Ten titles prior to the conference title game, won a Big Ten West title, been to three BCS level bowl games, been to 10 January bowl games, and has been in contention for a national title three times. Five times his teams have finished the season in the Top Ten. That is in 19 years.

Ferentz is 86-68 in Big Ten games. In the time Ferentz has been at Iowa, Minnesota is 59-95 in Big Ten.

Plus, Ferentz always seems to get a BIG, national win every few years (#3 Ohio State last year, #2 Michigan the year before that, #3 Penn State a few years before, etc.) When was the last time we really had one of those? 1999 at Penn State? 2000 at Ohio State? Almost 20 years ago?

I would take a Ferentz right NOW and never look back.
 

I've made no secret that the team I despise the most is Iowa. Despite that, I'd be a fool not to have enormous respect for what they've done as a program. They put an amazing number of players in the NFL (including two likely first rounders this year in OL James Daniels and CB Josh Jackson), they put butts in seats, and they expect to be relevant every year.

On a side note, their Rivals site can be really funny, but also incredibly vicious at times. I should probably keep that in mind when I get bent out of shape over fairly inconsequential things that happen here.
 

Kill won 14 conference games in his time here. In the last 3 seasons Ferentz has won 18

Kill won 40% of his big ten games. Ferentz has won 56%.



I’d say they are pretty much equal.

I'll give you $40 and you give me $56. Deal?
 

I was a big Kill fan, but to say he accomplished close to what Iowa did over the same period is just crazy talk.


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Kill won 14 conference games in his time here. In the last 3 seasons Ferentz has won 18

Kill won 40% of his big ten games. Ferentz has won 56%.



I’d say they are pretty much equal.

Ferentz has coached in the Rose Bowl. Jerry failed as
HC in Dinkytown. IAATRB
 




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