Coughlin - - DE or LB?

Bob_Loblaw

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
20,181
Reaction score
15,017
Points
113
I realize this doesn't have to be an either/or scenario, but where do you all think Coughlin ends up?

Do you think he will be primarily a pass rusher (whatever you want to call the position (DE, Rush End, rush lber) or do you think he ends up being more of a traditional LB?

He isn't much different in size to TJ Watt. The traditional LBer role is less appealing as far as NFL prospects. Carter was pretty damn good rushing the passer last year, especially considering how difficult it is to excel at that position on a bad team.

On the flip side, we were atrocious against the run and Carter would likely be one of our better LBers.

So where does he end up? For the sake of the debate, if your answer is LBer on 1st and 2nd down and DE on 3rd down, let's call that LB.
 

I realize this doesn't have to be an either/or scenario, but where do you all think Coughlin ends up?

Do you think he will be primarily a pass rusher (whatever you want to call the position (DE, Rush End, rush lber) or do you think he ends up being more of a traditional LB?

He isn't much different in size to TJ Watt. The traditional LBer role is less appealing as far as NFL prospects. Carter was pretty damn good rushing the passer last year, especially considering how difficult it is to excel at that position on a bad team.

On the flip side, we were atrocious against the run and Carter would likely be one of our better LBers.

So where does he end up? For the sake of the debate, if your answer is LBer on 1st and 2nd down and DE on 3rd down, let's call that LB.

Ideally he'd be a linebacker but because of lack of depth on D-line I think he'll be back as a DE.
 

Ideally he'd be a linebacker but because of lack of depth on D-line I think he'll be back as a DE.

Do you say that because you think he would be a better LBer than a DE or that the team would be better if he played LB (if we had an adequate DE)?

I know those feel really similar, I just think that a good DE is more valuable than a good LBer.
 

as described by PJ, the position he'll play is a stand up rush end, very similar to a 3-4 OLB, and he will move around and play different positions. I don't really understand why everyone is so opposed to him playing DE though, he did great last year, and just needs to get a little stronger.
 



as described by PJ, the position he'll play is a stand up rush end, very similar to a 3-4 OLB, and he will move around and play different positions. I don't really understand why everyone is so opposed to him playing DE though, he did great last year, and just needs to get a little stronger.

I totally agree. It was actually the reason why I posted this, I've seen people comment about being excited for Carter to move to a more traditional LB position, and I'd rather have him play DE/Rush End/etc. Obviously he gives us versatility and that's great, but I hope his primary responsibility continues to be rushing the QB.
 

I totally agree. It was actually the reason why I posted this, I've seen people comment about being excited for Carter to move to a more traditional LB position, and I'd rather have him play DE/Rush End/etc. Obviously he gives us versatility and that's great, but I hope his primary responsibility continues to be rushing the QB.

100%. I always agreed with Kill that you take an athletic S and make them a LB, LB to DE, etc. He's about the same size as the Georgia DE whose name escapes me, David something, who did quite well. He has great twitch and speed, and DEs can make an entire defense. Rather have pass rushers than coverage LBs.
 

Depends on the Scheme. What you or I think doesn't mean squat. What do the coaches want to do on defense, and which players best fit that scheme?

If they want the DE to be more of a run-stopper, then Coughlin may not be that guy. But, if they want a quicker DE who is primarily a pass-rusher, then Coughlin is better suited for that role.

My two cents: I still think the Gophers' personnel is better suited for a 3-4 defense, or some variation on that scheme. As I recall, that is what Claeys was moving toward.

If the coaching staff wants to play a more traditional 4-3, then I would prefer to see a bigger, stronger guy at DE. Coughlin's strong point IMHO is his mobility. I think you lose some of that value by playing him at DE.
 

I like him as a rush DE on passing downs. Otherwise he should be a LB. There were too many times when he got obliterated by OTs that outweighed him by 80+ lbs on running plays last year.
 



Depends on the Scheme. What you or I think doesn't mean squat. What do the coaches want to do on defense, and which players best fit that scheme?

If they want the DE to be more of a run-stopper, then Coughlin may not be that guy. But, if they want a quicker DE who is primarily a pass-rusher, then Coughlin is better suited for that role.

My two cents: I still think the Gophers' personnel is better suited for a 3-4 defense, or some variation on that scheme. As I recall, that is what Claeys was moving toward.

If the coaching staff wants to play a more traditional 4-3, then I would prefer to see a bigger, stronger guy at DE. Coughlin's strong point IMHO is his mobility. I think you lose some of that value by playing him at DE.

Correct, it doesn’t really matter what we think, so that is why we should listen to what PJ said he was planning to do.
Just as an earlier poster said, PJ plans to keep him on the line as more of a rushing LB (not DE) in a type of 3:4. That way he can get more of his other talented LB’s on the field. He plans to also move him around to other LB positions as the situation dictates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

as described by PJ, the position he'll play is a stand up rush end, very similar to a 3-4 OLB, and he will move around and play different positions. I don't really understand why everyone is so opposed to him playing DE though, he did great last year, and just needs to get a little stronger.

I just think he could be very good at OLB.
 

I am not worried where they play him. His versatility, unselfishness, and athleticism gives the coaches a lot of options. He will make the defense play better as a complete unit.
 

Do you say that because you think he would be a better LBer than a DE or that the team would be better if he played LB (if we had an adequate DE)?

I know those feel really similar, I just think that a good DE is more valuable than a good LBer.

I think with our current roster he helps the team more as a DE. I think he has more potential/higher ceiling as an OLB.
 



I think he will be even better at DE this year. Also allows Cashman to get on the field more.
 

as described by PJ, the position he'll play is a stand up rush end, very similar to a 3-4 OLB, and he will move around and play different positions. I don't really understand why everyone is so opposed to him playing DE though, he did great last year, and just needs to get a little stronger.

I am a CC fan, but he was not good at all against power running teams, which basically includes every consistent winning program in the conference. He can't get close to TJ Watts size.
Rushing him on 3rd and long is fine. Using him at DEnd on any other down is basically wasting a great talent. Mich, MSt, Wisc, and NW did not have to pass to beat us last season, just run at our DefEnds.
He has even said he had a hard time maintaining 225 last season. That is not an every down DE in a B1G 4-3 defense.
Ps: Based on his profile JJ Watt is 6'5" and weighs 289 lbs vs CC at 6'3" and 225 lbs. It is a ridiculous comparison.
 

I am a CC fan, but he was not good at all against power running teams, which basically includes every consistent winning program in the conference. He can't get close to TJ Watts size.
Rushing him on 3rd and long is fine. Using him at DEnd on any other down is basically wasting a great talent. Mich, MSt, Wisc, and NW did not have to pass to beat us last season, just run at our DefEnds.
He has even said he had a hard time maintaining 225 last season. That is not an every down DE in a B1G 4-3 defense.
Ps: Based on his profile JJ Watt is 6'5" and weighs 289 lbs vs CC at 6'3" and 225 lbs. It is a ridiculous comparison.

He's almost exactly the same size as Watt.
 


I am a CC fan, but he was not good at all against power running teams, which basically includes every consistent winning program in the conference. He can't get close to TJ Watts size.
Rushing him on 3rd and long is fine. Using him at DEnd on any other down is basically wasting a great talent. Mich, MSt, Wisc, and NW did not have to pass to beat us last season, just run at our DefEnds.
He has even said he had a hard time maintaining 225 last season. That is not an every down DE in a B1G 4-3 defense.
Ps: Based on his profile JJ Watt is 6'5" and weighs 289 lbs vs CC at 6'3" and 225 lbs. It is a ridiculous comparison.

The comparison was with TJ Watt.

CC - 6'4" 245 lbs

TJ Watt - 6'5" 243 (his last year at WI)
Tim Williams - 6'3" 244 lbs
Takarist McKinley - 6'2" 250 lbs

These guys were three of the best edge rushers in last year's draft.
 

I've been saying since last year he should be a LB. GH clearly informed me that what he did in 2017 was what he did in HS, and should do, and that me challenging that was only because I don't like PJ. Is it now OK to question this move?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

The comparison was with TJ Watt.

CC - 6'4" 245 lbs

TJ Watt - 6'5" 243 (his last year at WI)
Tim Williams - 6'3" 244 lbs
Takarist McKinley - 6'2" 250 lbs

These guys were three of the best edge rushers in last year's draft.
If you guys believe CC can maintain a 245 lb weight, I have a bridge I'd like you to buy. He had a hard time staying at 225 last season.
 


I've been saying since last year he should be a LB. GH clearly informed me that what he did in 2017 was what he did in HS, and should do, and that me challenging that was only because I don't like PJ. Is it now OK to question this move?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like how 1 or 2 people somehow equals all of Gopherhole. A lot of people were saying the coaching staff didn't really have much of a choice last year due to the lack of depth and talent at DE. I agree I think he should be at LB except in passing situations but I understand why they did what they did last year.
 

If you guys believe CC can maintain a 245 lb weight, I have a bridge I'd like you to buy. He had a hard time staying at 225 last season.

That's actually probably a valid point. I agree that his weight of 245 is probably not accurate.

That's a completely different argument from "it's crazy to compare him to JJ Watt". No one was.

I can't imagine Carter would have the toughest time getting up to 245 lbs, if he is not already there. I know there is an article from last year that talks about him being 220 lbs, but I think that was lazy journalism (looked at his weight as a true freshman). From my experience, the listed weights on Gophersports usually seem to be accurate and he is listed at 245 lbs there. That said, I could be totally wrong on the accuracy of the official roster on Gophersports.
 

I've been saying since last year he should be a LB. GH clearly informed me that what he did in 2017 was what he did in HS, and should do, and that me challenging that was only because I don't like PJ. Is it now OK to question this move?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No.

You didn't support collared shirts 100%, therefore, if you have any opinion on anything Gopher related that is not 100% in-line with how it is currently being conducted . . . invalid.
 

I've been saying since last year he should be a LB. GH clearly informed me that what he did in 2017 was what he did in HS, and should do, and that me challenging that was only because I don't like PJ. Is it now OK to question this move?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Could your skin get any thinner?
 

That's actually probably a valid point. I agree that his weight of 245 is probably not accurate.

That's a completely different argument from "it's crazy to compare him to JJ Watt". No one was.

I can't imagine Carter would have the toughest time getting up to 245 lbs, if he is not already there. I know there is an article from last year that talks about him being 220 lbs, but I think that was lazy journalism (looked at his weight as a true freshman). From my experience, the listed weights on Gophersports usually seem to be accurate and he is listed at 245 lbs there. That said, I could be totally wrong on the accuracy of the official roster on Gophersports.

I would be willing to be his personal trainer. As I have gotten older I have developed this magical ability to gain weight effortlessly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

That's actually probably a valid point. I agree that his weight of 245 is probably not accurate.

That's a completely different argument from "it's crazy to compare him to JJ Watt". No one was.

I can't imagine Carter would have the toughest time getting up to 245 lbs, if he is not already there. I know there is an article from last year that talks about him being 220 lbs, but I think that was lazy journalism (looked at his weight as a true freshman). From my experience, the listed weights on Gophersports usually seem to be accurate and he is listed at 245 lbs there. That said, I could be totally wrong on the accuracy of the official roster on Gophersports.

Call me cynical......but I tend to discount program heights and weights. Some programs - HS and College - are fairly accurate in their listed heights and weights - but other programs are far less accurate. they take the players' word for it, or in some cases, they bump up heights and weights to make the team seem more imposing and/or provide false information to opponents. I see it a lot with listed heights for basketball players, and weights for football players. A kid gets listed at 160 for football, and he winds up wrestling 138 in the winter. I don't think he dropped 20 pounds - I think those 20 pounds were never there to begin with.

So, Coughlin might weigh 245 - or that's what he told the coaches - or that's what the coaches wanted to list him at, because they think it sounds better, or they don't want other teams knowing they're playing a 225lb DE.

Look - if he can play effectively at DE, I really don't care what his weight is. But, all things being equal, I would prefer someone a little bigger. Quickness is great, but when you've got a 300 pound guard or a 320 pound tackle coming out to block you, there is no substitute for size.
 

I would be willing to be his personal trainer. As I have gotten older I have developed this magical ability to gain weight effortlessly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

We don't need CC at 35 years old either.
I apologize for my wording in my first post, i was not trying to be as much of a smart ass as it sounded (I guess it is just a natural character flaw). But i don't think the 220 lbs was even lazy journalism, although it would be great if that was the case. I think the problem is he has a metabolism like his grandfather Tom Moe. He is a big strong guy, but he will always be a strong, lean athlete, who will struggle bulking up much. I hope I am wrong. He is still fairly young since he did not have a RS year.
If I am right, he has the perfect metabolism for just about anything but football, Rugby, professional wrestling and discuss throwing. Most of us would kill for that kind of metabolism.
Maybe massive calorie consumption can overcome genetics. We'll see.
 

We don't need CC at 35 years old either.
I apologize for my wording in my first post, i was not trying to be as much of a smart ass as it sounded (I guess it is just a natural character flaw). But i don't think the 220 lbs was even lazy journalism, although it would be great if that was the case. I think the problem is he has a metabolism like his grandfather Tom Moe. He is a big strong guy, but he will always be a strong, lean athlete, who will struggle bulking up much. I hope I am wrong. He is still fairly young since he did not have a RS year.
If I am right, he has the perfect metabolism for just about anything but football, Rugby, professional wrestling and discuss throwing. Most of us would kill for that kind of metabolism.
Maybe massive calorie consumption can overcome genetics. We'll see.

I'm pretty sure he started last year at 230. It's not a stretch to think he can add 10 pounds. Massive protein consumption and working out.
 

He was pretty bad against the run last year.

But he did get better every game.
 




Top Bottom