Two BAD Pitino mistakes

Doc1001

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The season isnt going anywhere anyway in the first half so-Murphy gets second foul with twelve minutes. We are extremely shorthanded anyway. What does he do? Pull Murphy out for the rest of the second half except maybe for a half a minute. Thats when Rutgers made their run. sheeesh. If there is ever a time to gamble its then. Did Murphy have more than one foul in the whole second half?
Why the heck not start Washington in his home state. You knew he would have a great game. No. He starts Hurt. Hurt-one point-Washington 19 points.
Just bad decision making. Yes hindsight is twenty twenty but I called both of them before they happened and i am not a rhodes scholar.
 

Agreed on both.

I think coaches over think things when a guy picks up a 2nd foul. You can't carry them with you to the next game. If he fouls out we are probably going to lose anyway, at least he's in the game being aggressive.
 

It does get tiresome when we agree on everything ElAmin Fan.
 


on the fouls, some of it is group-think. Every other coach pulls guys now with 2 fouls in the first half, to the point where it's becoming the norm. If a coach goes against the norm, keeps a guy in there, and the guy picks up a 3rd foul before halftime, that coach is going to be second-guessed forever. Pulling the guy with 2 fouls is the safer choice - hence it's the choice most coaches make.

On Washington, it's hard to predict what the bleep he's going to do from game to game - or even from possession to possession. one time down the court, nifty move for a bucket. next time down the court - bad pass or bad shot. A coach has to be able to trust that the players on the floor are not going to hurt the team - and Washington has moments where he does hurt the team. Hurt, at the very least, will run the offense, and he can grab a rebound or even make a defensive play from time to time. the old risk vs. reward deal.
 



I agree that Jelly's first half usage was horrible all season - always made me furious. Should have absolutely played more in Coffey's absence. But pulling Murph was the right move. If he leaves him in there and he picks up his third foul half way through the first half, we would be sitting here dragging Rich's name through the mud even worse.
 

Rutgers actually pulled ahead at the end of the half when Murphy was in the game. It was a 2 point game with 3:15 left. Murphy came in for the last few minutes.

I agree somewhat with the Washington take, although I don't think starting is really that big of a deal. I do think Pitino pulls him too quickly sometimes. He did start the second half though.
 

on the fouls, some of it is group-think. Every other coach pulls guys now with 2 fouls in the first half, to the point where it's becoming the norm. If a coach goes against the norm, keeps a guy in there, and the guy picks up a 3rd foul before halftime, that coach is going to be second-guessed forever. Pulling the guy with 2 fouls is the safer choice - hence it's the choice most coaches make.

On Washington, it's hard to predict what the bleep he's going to do from game to game - or even from possession to possession. one time down the court, nifty move for a bucket. next time down the court - bad pass or bad shot. A coach has to be able to trust that the players on the floor are not going to hurt the team - and Washington has moments where he does hurt the team. Hurt, at the very least, will run the offense, and he can grab a rebound or even make a defensive play from time to time. the old risk vs. reward deal.


Think you summed up the 2 foul dilemma well. Seems to me that high school coaches are willing to take a risk and play someone with 2 fouls in the first half from time to time, but you never see this from college coaches.
 




Typically, it's not the player you don't trust to avoid the third foul. It's the referees. Someone significant on your team has three fouls at the half...you're screwed. Start them the 2nd half with three fouls? Almost guaranteed they get whistled for number four a minute in. Sit them to start the second half? Whole team is skittish.
You need more depth. Or it's game 30...by now figure out how not to get two fouls in the first half...if you can't do that, why would I think you can keep from getting the third?

And then you have the guys who can play without picking up a foul but they also play zero defense, secure no rebounds or score any points but they don't get any fouls...yay...
 


I suspect a little risk analysis would tell you that weaker teams should always play their best players. Yes, they may foul out but the quality difference of a Murphy vs a bench player is huge and Murphy having a huge game is their only chance to win. Pulling players with fouls is what good, deep teams should do. Weaker teams should roll the dice and keep their best players in. The goal is to win not lose respectfully.
 



When did the practice of benching guys with two fouls in the first half begin anyway?

I always remembered guys playing until their third in half back in the 80s. Maybe it's faulty memory on my part.
 

I suspect a little risk analysis would tell you that weaker teams should always play their best players. Yes, they may foul out but the quality difference of a Murphy vs a bench player is huge and Murphy having a huge game is their only chance to win. Pulling players with fouls is what good, deep teams should do. Weaker teams should roll the dice and keep their best players in. The goal is to win not lose respectfully.

Pitino did roll the dice by playing him the last few minutes of the first half. Rutgers expanded the lead with him in from 2 points to 9.
 

Yeah, you see more guys playing in HS with three fouls - but if they get too cautious and start playing "matador" defense, that doesn't help the team. There is an art to being able to back off just a bit on defense without becoming too passive. some people can learn that art - others never master it. Others just can't help themselves,and they go for the block and boom, get another foul at the worst possible time.

And that has to factor into the decision. if a coach knows that player X can't handle the situation, you're better off sitting the player, and letting him go full-bore when he comes back in.
 

Rutgers actually pulled ahead at the end of the half when Murphy was in the game. It was a 2 point game with 3:15 left. Murphy came in for the last few minutes.

Ouch. Facts are irrelevant for some people.
 



Washington played the third most minutes on the team. It doesn't matter who started
 




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