Pitino's buyout: $4.05 million

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Ope3 said:
Celebrate mediocrity? I wish the Gophers were at least mediocre.
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Well, we're gonna get stats from Forcast that prove just how mediocre we are.

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jamiche said:
Unless Eric Musselman would agree to take this job I would be inclined to give Pitino another year. A dismissal would likely mean losing some players on the current squad and at least some members of the incoming class. It would take three years to get back to where we are now, which isn't much of anywhere.

The reason I list Musselman as the exception is that I think the remaining players on the team kind of gave up this year. The things they could control, body language and effort on defense, didn't look so good. I think Muss would have gotten more out of this team.
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Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, at least not for Minnesota. If you want a shot at Musselman you have to have an open job to offer him.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Sorry to say, that's unrealistic in a rebuilding year. They'll be starting a sophomore point guard who had his struggles as a freshman, and they'll be starting a freshman center. If an NCAA berth is the only thing that you say will save Pitino's job, you might as well dismiss him now.
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This is the issue. I felt the same way two years ago, but it would be tough to pull that off twice. I feel like you either cut bait now or sign on for two more years, which is hard to stomach. Otherwise you might have a dead coach walking by New Year's day.
 

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howeda7 said:
Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, at least not for Minnesota. If you want a shot at Musselman you have to have an open job to offer him.
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Don't you think quiet conversations take place between intermediaries?
 


jamiche said:
Don't you think quiet conversations take place between intermediaries?
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Your right. And the buy out is small by power 5 standards. Check out the USA today coaching salary chart, complete with salary , bonus and buyout.
 

I’m pretty darn sure this thread wouldn’t exist if the Gopher basketball team wasn’t missing 4 of its top 6 players for most of the season. This year was a bummer, that’s it. The losing season this year only matters if its followed up by perpetual under achieving. With our experience next year, assuming everyone is back that is expected to be back, and the incoming freshman makes me pumped for next year. Coyle supports Pitino and he has my vote.
 

jamiche said:
Don't you think quiet conversations take place between intermediaries?
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At some schools, sure. We get our coaching searches leaked by our AD flying coach on Delta.

I'm not saying you can't get an indicator of interest through a back channel. But you're not likely to get a guaranteed acceptance from someone to take a job that isn't open. Coaches don't like to stab each other in the back.
 

howeda7 said:
At some schools, sure. We get our coaching searches leaked by our AD flying coach on Delta.

I'm not saying you can't get an indicator of interest through a back channel. But you're not likely to get a guaranteed acceptance from someone to take a job that isn't open. Coaches don't like to stab each other in the back.
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Agree that you have to have an open job. I think Musselman might be tough, though. I suspect that school would try to find the money to raise his compensation substantially (like Wichita State was able to do with Greg Marshall) if another school tried to lure him away. What about another former Minnesota resident (and alum): Brian Dutcher?
 



"I don't think this thread would exist if the Gophers weren't missing 4 of their top 6 players". I've seen a lot of posters write something similar to this and I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Where the disconnect is with me, is I also don't' think the thread would exist if the Gophers finished between 6-12 and 8-10 in conference play. If you look at where Wisconsin was projected prior to the season and then see that they lost 2 of their top 6 and still finished 7-11 in conference play (while starting a Freshman PG), it's really hard to argue that the Gophers should have ended up 4-14. Indiana was not projected to be good this year, lost their Center for the year before playing the Gophers, and ended up 9-9 in league play. I strongly believe this team gave a very inconsistent effort post the Lynch suspension and that made what was always going to be a disappointing season at that point turn in to a season that was untenable.

I feel like this job is going to be more attractive this off season than it would be for next season for a few reasons:

1. Solid roster of returners plus a top 50 recruit: A new coach would have a chance to build momentum for his program immediately building around a Senior Jordan Murphy and players like Coffey, McBrayer, and Curry along with a solid (not great) recruiting class. If a move happens after the '18 season you remove Murphy and McBrayer from the roster and replace them with whoever Pitino has recruited for '19. This is a major concern of mine given how Pitino recruited on the heels of his last disaster of a season; it was that off season where he missed on Jericho Sims, Theo John, and arguably some of (but not all) Reuvers, Davison, and Wright. I can't imagine anyone feels good about Matthew Hurt right now and i haven't seen it suggested that we lead for any top 100 guys in the '19 class.

2. Only B1G job to open: This is not a certainty, but right now it seems unlikely that any other job would open. Who knows what happens by this time next year? I think it helped the Gophers immensely in landing Fleck for football that the only other B1G job to open that cycle was Purdue. I'd rather not compete with Michigan State or Maryland that may open by next year.

3. New facilities: That new car smell only lasts so long, and I'd take advantage of showing a potential new coach around his potential new work environment while things look as impressive (relative to our competition) as they can.

4. Perception of the program: Taking over one year removed from a top 4 finish and a 5 seed is a lot different than taking over a team that has missed the tournament two years in a row and a team with a really ugly conference winning percentage over those two years.

With Pitino's buyout being 4 million this year, it's probably close to 3 million next year. I can't imagine him being back in '19-20 without a tournament appearance, so we are really talking about spending 1 million or so more this year to open the job in a more favorable environment (IMHO) than it would be next year. I would imagine attendance will be down next year if a change is not made, so I think a purely financial argument could be made that it would be better to move on now if you are coming at the issue from the perspective that it's likely you are going to have to pay ~3 million to go in a different direction a year from now.

Personally, I'll be all in on supporting Pitino if he's back because I believe the program badly needs next year to go well. If it doesn't, my fear is that this job becomes a major rebuild with a fan base that is beyond sick of bad years and we're going to have a really uninspired list of candidates who are interested in taking on that challenge.
 


I wouldn't mind seeing Eric Musselman coaching the team next season, I'm pretty sure Richard will still be around though.
 

"I don't think this thread would exist if the Gophers weren't missing 4 of their top 6 players". I've seen a lot of posters write something similar to this and I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Where the disconnect is with me, is I also don't' think the thread would exist if the Gophers finished between 6-12 and 8-10 in conference play. If you look at where Wisconsin was projected prior to the season and then see that they lost 2 of their top 6 and still finished 7-11 in conference play (while starting a Freshman PG), it's really hard to argue that the Gophers should have ended up 4-14. Indiana was not projected to be good this year, lost their Center for the year before playing the Gophers, and ended up 9-9 in league play. I strongly believe this team gave a very inconsistent effort post the Lynch suspension and that made what was always going to be a disappointing season at that point turn in to a season that was untenable.

I totally agree with this take. You can’t tell me that the combo of Mason/Murphy isn’t as good or better than Davison/Happ. The fact that Minnesota couldn’t find a way to win more games against similar crappy teams in conference yet a depleted Bucky team beats Purdue at home and played a tight home game vs. MSU speaks volumes. Not to mention us pissing away our game vs. them head to head as they blew us out in OT. That’s just not acceptable. Some of this has to fall on coaching.
 




EG#9 said:
"I don't think this thread would exist if the Gophers weren't missing 4 of their top 6 players". I've seen a lot of posters write something similar to this and I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Where the disconnect is with me, is I also don't' think the thread would exist if the Gophers finished between 6-12 and 8-10 in conference play. If you look at where Wisconsin was projected prior to the season and then see that they lost 2 of their top 6 and still finished 7-11 in conference play (while starting a Freshman PG), it's really hard to argue that the Gophers should have ended up 4-14. Indiana was not projected to be good this year, lost their Center for the year before playing the Gophers, and ended up 9-9 in league play. I strongly believe this team gave a very inconsistent effort post the Lynch suspension and that made what was always going to be a disappointing season at that point turn in to a season that was untenable.

I feel like this job is going to be more attractive this off season than it would be for next season for a few reasons:

1. Solid roster of returners plus a top 50 recruit: A new coach would have a chance to build momentum for his program immediately building around a Senior Jordan Murphy and players like Coffey, McBrayer, and Curry along with a solid (not great) recruiting class. If a move happens after the '18 season you remove Murphy and McBrayer from the roster and replace them with whoever Pitino has recruited for '19. This is a major concern of mine given how Pitino recruited on the heels of his last disaster of a season; it was that off season where he missed on Jericho Sims, Theo John, and arguably some of (but not all) Reuvers, Davison, and Wright. I can't imagine anyone feels good about Matthew Hurt right now and i haven't seen it suggested that we lead for any top 100 guys in the '19 class.

2. Only B1G job to open: This is not a certainty, but right now it seems unlikely that any other job would open. Who knows what happens by this time next year? I think it helped the Gophers immensely in landing Fleck for football that the only other B1G job to open that cycle was Purdue. I'd rather not compete with Michigan State or Maryland that may open by next year.

3. New facilities: That new car smell only lasts so long, and I'd take advantage of showing a potential new coach around his potential new work environment while things look as impressive (relative to our competition) as they can.

4. Perception of the program: Taking over one year removed from a top 4 finish and a 5 seed is a lot different than taking over a team that has missed the tournament two years in a row and a team with a really ugly conference winning percentage over those two years.

With Pitino's buyout being 4 million this year, it's probably close to 3 million next year. I can't imagine him being back in '19-20 without a tournament appearance, so we are really talking about spending 1 million or so more this year to open the job in a more favorable environment (IMHO) than it would be next year. I would imagine attendance will be down next year if a change is not made, so I think a purely financial argument could be made that it would be better to move on now if you are coming at the issue from the perspective that it's likely you are going to have to pay ~3 million to go in a different direction a year from now.

Personally, I'll be all in on supporting Pitino if he's back because I believe the program badly needs next year to go well. If it doesn't, my fear is that this job becomes a major rebuild with a fan base that is beyond sick of bad years and we're going to have a really uninspired list of candidates who are interested in taking on that challenge.
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Well, you laid that out very well.
 

cjbfbp said:
Agree that you have to have an open job. I think Musselman might be tough, though. I suspect that school would try to find the money to raise his compensation substantially (like Wichita State was able to do with Greg Marshall) if another school tried to lure him away. What about another former Minnesota resident (and alum): Brian Dutcher?
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Dutcher waited for a decade to get the SDSU job, he's not leaving after just one year. He's never built a program on his own. He's also nearly 60. No thanks.

I don't see Musselman turning down a decent power 6 job to stay at Nevada. He's also close to 50. If he's going to move up, he can't slow play it that much.
 

EG#9 said:
"I don't think this thread would exist if the Gophers weren't missing 4 of their top 6 players". I've seen a lot of posters write something similar to this and I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Where the disconnect is with me, is I also don't' think the thread would exist if the Gophers finished between 6-12 and 8-10 in conference play. If you look at where Wisconsin was projected prior to the season and then see that they lost 2 of their top 6 and still finished 7-11 in conference play (while starting a Freshman PG), it's really hard to argue that the Gophers should have ended up 4-14. Indiana was not projected to be good this year, lost their Center for the year before playing the Gophers, and ended up 9-9 in league play. I strongly believe this team gave a very inconsistent effort post the Lynch suspension and that made what was always going to be a disappointing season at that point turn in to a season that was untenable.

I feel like this job is going to be more attractive this off season than it would be for next season for a few reasons:

1. Solid roster of returners plus a top 50 recruit: A new coach would have a chance to build momentum for his program immediately building around a Senior Jordan Murphy and players like Coffey, McBrayer, and Curry along with a solid (not great) recruiting class. If a move happens after the '18 season you remove Murphy and McBrayer from the roster and replace them with whoever Pitino has recruited for '19. This is a major concern of mine given how Pitino recruited on the heels of his last disaster of a season; it was that off season where he missed on Jericho Sims, Theo John, and arguably some of (but not all) Reuvers, Davison, and Wright. I can't imagine anyone feels good about Matthew Hurt right now and i haven't seen it suggested that we lead for any top 100 guys in the '19 class.

2. Only B1G job to open: This is not a certainty, but right now it seems unlikely that any other job would open. Who knows what happens by this time next year? I think it helped the Gophers immensely in landing Fleck for football that the only other B1G job to open that cycle was Purdue. I'd rather not compete with Michigan State or Maryland that may open by next year.

3. New facilities: That new car smell only lasts so long, and I'd take advantage of showing a potential new coach around his potential new work environment while things look as impressive (relative to our competition) as they can.

4. Perception of the program: Taking over one year removed from a top 4 finish and a 5 seed is a lot different than taking over a team that has missed the tournament two years in a row and a team with a really ugly conference winning percentage over those two years.

With Pitino's buyout being 4 million this year, it's probably close to 3 million next year. I can't imagine him being back in '19-20 without a tournament appearance, so we are really talking about spending 1 million or so more this year to open the job in a more favorable environment (IMHO) than it would be next year. I would imagine attendance will be down next year if a change is not made, so I think a purely financial argument could be made that it would be better to move on now if you are coming at the issue from the perspective that it's likely you are going to have to pay ~3 million to go in a different direction a year from now.

Personally, I'll be all in on supporting Pitino if he's back because I believe the program badly needs next year to go well. If it doesn't, my fear is that this job becomes a major rebuild with a fan base that is beyond sick of bad years and we're going to have a really uninspired list of candidates who are interested in taking on that challenge.
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+1. This team should still have won 6-7 B1G games with the conference this weak, but as importantly shouldn't have gotten blown out by anyone not named Purdue/MSU/OSU.
 

howeda7 said:
Dutcher waited for a decade to get the SDSU job, he's not leaving after just one year. He's never built a program on his own. He's also nearly 60. No thanks.

I don't see Musselman turning down a decent power 6 job to stay at Nevada. He's also close to 50. If he's going to move up, he can't slow play it that much.
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Yes, I guess Dutcher probably is too old for the job. Still think Musselman's school would try to retain him and might be successful. There are other good mid-major coaches out there.
 


Guys...quick math: $4m buy out + top 30 recruiting class - 4 injuries - a dismissal + plus 4 talented returning players (Murphy, McBrayer, Washington, Hurt) = Pitino coming back...what’s the the chase out of town on Pitino here? Who do you want? At least he’s a straight shooter.


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Crackhouse said:
Guys...quick math: $4m buy out + top 30 recruiting class - 4 injuries - a dismissal + plus 4 talented returning players (Murphy, McBrayer, Washington, Hurt) = Pitino coming back...what’s the the chase out of town on Pitino here? Who do you want? At least he’s a straight shooter.


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You might want to check your math. Not a top 30 recruiting class. Hurt a top 4 talented returning player? If that’s true Pitino’s is certainly coaching to save his job next year.
 

scools12 said:
You might want to check your math. Not a top 30 recruiting class. Hurt a top 4 talented returning player? If that’s true Pitino’s is certainly coaching to save his job next year.
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Did the incoming class of Minnesota guys drop? Hurt still seems pretty solid to me. Yes he’s coaching to win


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Crackhouse said:
Why do you say that?



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Because after Kill's third year, we were coming off an 8 win season thinking we were going to be even better the next year (we ended up winning 8 again). Right now, we are coming off a five win season, hoping that the tougher schedule doesn't make it too hard to get to 6 next year.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
I'd keep Pitino around for next season, and am optimistic about our team.

But he needs to make the tourney and/or post AT LEAST a .500 Big Ten record. If not, it'll clearly be time to cut the cord.
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I'm reasonably optimistic about next year too and that's part of what bothers me. I could see next year's team exceeding expectations and getting into the tournament as one of the last four or five in. Then, I could see the team disappointing in the year or two following and we're right back to where we are now. Pitino has yet to have two good or even two moderately successful seasons in a row. Maybe if he manages to recruit and develop 10 capable guys instead of 6 or 7 we might avoid that.
 

Pitino will balance it out. This year was the first time he actually had players that were playing in the positions that he wanted them to play at! Big expectations. Then we lose many of the starters and Coach ends up being stung by mistakes he made several years ago. He reached at a couple of recruits his first year and they never developed into B1G players. At least he was a standup guy and stayed loyal to those players and didn’t run them off. This season turned on a dime. You can see the improvement in the type of players that Pitino has been bringing in the last couple of years and the fall off will not be so dramatic in future years. If we have another rare hit to our starter the fall off will be more of experience and not talent like it was this year.


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alchemy2u said:
Pitino will balance it out. This year was the first time he actually had players that were playing in the positions that he wanted them to play at! Big expectations. Then we lose many of the starters and Coach ends up being stung by mistakes he made several years ago. He reached at a couple of recruits his first year and they never developed into B1G players. At least he was a standup guy and stayed loyal to those players and didn’t run them off. This season turned on a dime. You can see the improvement in the type of players that Pitino has been bringing in the last couple of years and the fall off will not be so dramatic in future years. If we have another rare hit to our starter the fall off will be more of experience and not talent like it was this year.

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Huh? He's the coach. he makes out the starting lineup. And the players were not playing in the positions that he wanted them to play at? whose bleepin' fault is that? Pitino recruits the players. he coaches the players. he decides who starts. he decides when to put in subs, and how many minutes the subs play. And yet, he apparently has no control over anything that happens. you make Pitino sound like an innocent bystander. How many years does Pitino have to coach before he is actually responsible for the team's performance - and the team's record?
 

To be clear. I am NOT saying Pitino is a bad coach. He does appear to be a better recruiter than recent Gopher coaches. But I still have real questions about his ability as a bench coach - his ability to coach the players and make in-game adjustments. I am not willing to give him a pass for everything that happens because of some injuries and a suspension.

The Gophers need to really show me something next year before I am ready to say Pitino is the long-term answer for this program.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Huh? He's the coach. he makes out the starting lineup. And the players were not playing in the positions that he wanted them to play at? whose bleepin' fault is that? Pitino recruits the players. he coaches the players. he decides who starts. he decides when to put in subs, and how many minutes the subs play. And yet, he apparently has no control over anything that happens. you make Pitino sound like an innocent bystander. How many years does Pitino have to coach before he is actually responsible for the team's performance - and the team's record?
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Hey numb nuts, for many reasons (some his own doing) he has to plug players into wholes in the roster and play them out of position his first several years. Of course, he decides where they play, but having Joey King play center is not what he wanted....


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short ornery norwegian said:
To be clear. I am NOT saying Pitino is a bad coach. He does appear to be a better recruiter than recent Gopher coaches. But I still have real questions about his ability as a bench coach - his ability to coach the players and make in-game adjustments. I am not willing to give him a pass for everything that happens because of some injuries and a suspension.

The Gophers need to really show me something next year before I am ready to say Pitino is the long-term answer for this program.
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We should not forget that any coach capable of getting this job would have recruiting advantages over those who coached here early in the century and before. We have a state-of-the art facility that even got rave reviews from the Eagles' players. More importantly, between the Big Ten network, the ESPN channels, and FS1, any recruit here can look forward to having ALL of his conference games and most of his non-conference games televised by nationally available sports networks. Those television networks also provide considerable amounts of funding that weren't available to most former coaches.
 

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