Fleck: 71 percent of our team is underclassmen; finally have depth

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John Galt said:
PJ, through his own words, has set the highest bar of any Gopher coach in my lifetime. He's talked about his desire to win not only B1G championships, but national championships.
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Every Gophers coach in memory has talked about Big Ten championships and national championships - notably Brewster, who was crucified for it.

John Galt said:
And yet same coach, in the minds of many on GH, is doing everything possible to artificially downplay expectations for the first 3 years? Really? He's that into Jedi mind games that he is intentionally blowing away multiple seasons just so he can be the heroic savior 3-4 years from now? Really?
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Yes, really. It's perfectly congruent with everything else he's doing and makes perfect sense. It also fits with his history. Do you really think WMU had to go 1-11 his first year? They won between 4 and 9 games every year Cubit was there, but he's pushing the narrative that he inherited some dumpster fire that was the worst program in the FBS. If I had a nickel for every time over the last year that I've read "from one win to the Cotton Bowl in 3 years!" I too would be a millionaire. "Five wins to the Cotton Bowl in 3 years" doesn't quite have the same ring, does it?

And now he's doing the exact same thing here. The situation was so bad that only he could come in and fix it. His biggest lament from last year is probably that we won as many games as we did.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Every Gophers coach in memory has talked about Big Ten championships and national championships - notably Brewster, who was crucified for it.



Yes, really. It's perfectly congruent with everything else he's doing and makes perfect sense. It also fits with his history. Do you really think WMU had to go 1-11 his first year? They won between 4 and 9 games every year Cubit was there, but he's pushing the narrative that he inherited some dumpster fire that was the worst program in the FBS. If I had a nickel for every time over the last year that I've read "from one win to the Cotton Bowl in 3 years!" I too would be a millionaire. "Five wins to the Cotton Bowl in 3 years" doesn't quite have the same ring, does it?

And now he's doing the exact same thing here. The situation was so bad that only he could come in and fix it. His biggest lament from last year is probably that we won as many games as we did.
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Say what? He did win 5 games last year, not 1, so how is that the exact same as WMU? It's also unlikely they win less than 5 this year. It's absurd and flat out wrong to think Fleck was purposely losing games to create some story line.

You're the one who is usually ripping people for being incorrect and overdramatic. Now in addition to this you've said the uniforms, which only underwent minor changes outside of 1 helmet, are 'possibly the worst you've ever seen at the college level'. What has happened to you?
 

dpodoll68 said:
Every Gophers coach in memory has talked about Big Ten championships and national championships - notably Brewster, who was crucified for it.



Yes, really. It's perfectly congruent with everything else he's doing and makes perfect sense. It also fits with his history. Do you really think WMU had to go 1-11 his first year? They won between 4 and 9 games every year Cubit was there, but he's pushing the narrative that he inherited some dumpster fire that was the worst program in the FBS. If I had a nickel for every time over the last year that I've read "from one win to the Cotton Bowl in 3 years!" I too would be a millionaire. "Five wins to the Cotton Bowl in 3 years" doesn't quite have the same ring, does it?

And now he's doing the exact same thing here. The situation was so bad that only he could come in and fix it. His biggest lament from last year is probably that we won as many games as we did.
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Here is Bill Cubit's & PJ FLeck's records at WMU:

WMU Cubit vs Fleck Record.jpg
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
You're the one who is usually ripping people for being incorrect and overdramatic. Now in addition to this you've said the uniforms, which only underwent minor changes outside of 1 helmet, are 'possibly the worst you've ever seen at the college level'. What has happened to you?
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I love this post. You see yourself as this unbiased level headed poster. Something is clearly wrong with DPO, he doesn't see things the same as you do (in your unbiased level headed deduction). It really is better than fiction.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Well, generally speaking if one doesn’t believe they can do something then that something is unlikely to happen. Getting into Stanford, losing 40 pounds, asking the hot girl out, beating Purdue are all achievable if one believes it can happen. I genuinely believe that Fleck believes he could not and cannot win or be competitive with the roster last year, or this year, and possibly the year after that depending on how some guys pan out.

Will we get there in 2020? We need the croots and we need highly talented guys to make his system go. Kill IMO was steadily building towards a gritty, workmanlike Kansas State style program. He had a system honed over decades of coaching. It was frustrating but we all saw the progression to competence. Then he became ill and it fell apart.

Now we have a coach that ouldnt be more different from Kill, that doesn’t have that depth of experience and he will seemingly rely on being able to bring in the most talented guys. It’s going to be really interesting to watch this baby grow up over the next 3-4 years.
 


dpodoll68 said:
Every Gophers coach in memory has talked about Big Ten championships and national championships - notably Brewster, who was crucified for it.



Yes, really. It's perfectly congruent with everything else he's doing and makes perfect sense. It also fits with his history. Do you really think WMU had to go 1-11 his first year? They won between 4 and 9 games every year Cubit was there, but he's pushing the narrative that he inherited some dumpster fire that was the worst program in the FBS. If I had a nickel for every time over the last year that I've read "from one win to the Cotton Bowl in 3 years!" I too would be a millionaire. "Five wins to the Cotton Bowl in 3 years" doesn't quite have the same ring, does it?

And now he's doing the exact same thing here. The situation was so bad that only he could come in and fix it. His biggest lament from last year is probably that we won as many games as we did.
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Brewster talked about the Rose Bowl a lot at first. People loved it, until he didn't deliver. I don't remember him talking about national championships.

I don't remember Kill or Claeys ever mentioning the Rose Bowl. Kill made players wear loafer jerseys and mocked players about playing video games when he started. I also don't remember Mason ever talking about the Rose Bowl, but that was a while ago now.
 

Word said:
I don't disagree with you - just saying there is a different way to fill depth needs. Jucos can be high risk high reward.
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I dunno that they're really high risk, if they aren't good they are at least gone sooner than a high school kid.
 

btowngopher said:
I dunno that they're really high risk, if they aren't good they are at least gone sooner than a high school kid.
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The risk is academic, usually, that they take down your APR. More often than not they end up at JUCO because they couldn't qualify, which usually doesn't say a lot positive about their academic ability.

Note - this is obviously a generality, some qualify and go there to get out of a LOI they regret (sounds like both JUCO's this year were in that boat), some have legit reasons they didn't qualify, not just "dumb" or "didn't try". However the majority are in the third group which legitimately probably don't belong in a 4 year school...
 

John Galt said:
Brewster talked about the Rose Bowl a lot at first. People loved it, until he didn't deliver. I don't remember him talking about national championships.

I don't remember Kill or Claeys ever mentioning the Rose Bowl. Kill made players wear loafer jerseys and mocked players about playing video games when he started. I also don't remember Mason ever talking about the Rose Bowl, but that was a while ago now.
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dpodoll68 said:
Yes, really. It's perfectly congruent with everything else he's doing and makes perfect sense. It also fits with his history. Do you really think WMU had to go 1-11 his first year? They won between 4 and 9 games every year Cubit was there, but he's pushing the narrative that he inherited some dumpster fire that was the worst program in the FBS. If I had a nickel for every time over the last year that I've read "from one win to the Cotton Bowl in 3 years!" I too would be a millionaire. "Five wins to the Cotton Bowl in 3 years" doesn't quite have the same ring, does it?

And now he's doing the exact same thing here. The situation was so bad that only he could come in and fix it. His biggest lament from last year is probably that we won as many games as we did.
Click to expand...

Would it be fair to say Kill tried to control the narrative on similar things(i.e. youth, inexperience, depth) just as much as PJ (I get that every coach does to some extent)? If maybe not as overtly as PJ does? Most seemed OK with it when Kill did since he was so folksy about it. Just my thoughts.
 

Yes it’s fair but it’s also fair to expect rapid improvement going forward considering the investment in PJ and the increased baseline of talent available to him, and the improved state of the program when he arrived.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Yes it’s fair but it’s also fair to expect rapid improvement going forward considering the investment in PJ and the increased baseline of talent available to him, and the improved state of the program when he arrived.
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That's debatable.
 

e.bigelow said:
Would it be fair to say Kill tried to control the narrative on similar things(i.e. youth, inexperience, depth) just as much as PJ (I get that every coach does to some extent)? If maybe not as overtly as PJ does? Most seemed OK with it when Kill did since he was so folksy about it. Just my thoughts.
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Yes, absolutely fair. I can't speak for others, but it annoyed me just as much when Kill did it. I don't want to hear about all of the problems you have - if it were easy, you wouldn't become an instant millionaire to fix it. Just fix it.
 



Anything is debatable. My expectation last season was 6-7 wins. We dropped winnable games and looked terrible down the stretch.

My expectation this season is conflicted. My five star heart wants 6-7 wins but my eyes and my head tell me this could be a 4-5 win campaign simply because the schedule is IMO an order of magnitude tougher and PJ is in a rebuild mindset.

I remember being excited in 2012 because the team made visible strides. I hope we see that next year and I expect we will pending whether a few guys pan out and some injury returns.
 

GFBfan said:
It's actually 79.6% for the years 14-17, but still rather high.
Using Alabama as a comparison, wasn't comparing the star ratings, it was comparing that even at Alabama, they have similar numbers to us in underclassman that contribute, yet you don't hear much coming from them that they are so young and can't compete because of it.
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It is kind of a valid point. Often what makes a five star player a five star player is they are considered ready right away. Not just talented.
 

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