Alarming facts and stats inside Richard Pitino's 30-58 conference record

One of the cures coaches have when there is a lack of hustle is to bench the guy. Benching Mason for......?

I would guess that is tough when your depth is depleted but there are coaches that would do that. Bo Ryan had non negotiables built in. There could be no excuse for not hustling or closing on a shooter. The tough thing is i will remember Mason so much for his effort. What is troubling for me is the lack of identity established day one. What is that one thing you would say this staff has hung their basketball lives on from day one ?
 

I say all of this as one voice, one opinion. Despite a lifetime in and around the game i do not think my opinion is any more valuable than anyone else. Pitino may be doing the very best he can to get his best points across. Great coaches are incredibly rare, thus the word great. They are like that one fantastic teacher you had, they just possessed that extraordinary something special. Maybe he grows to it but we certainly have not seen any signs of that. Maybe really good will be his end game and that would far surpass anyone who came after Muss. Muss was a really wonderful teacher who had problems with rules and that is a very big problem. ANYONE else since barely meets average.
 

I would guess that is tough when your depth is depleted but there are coaches that would do that. Bo Ryan had non negotiables built in. There could be no excuse for not hustling or closing on a shooter. The tough thing is i will remember Mason so much for his effort. What is troubling for me is the lack of identity established day one. What is that one thing you would say this staff has hung their basketball lives on from day one ?

The identity he said he wanted when he got here was up tempo offense and pressure defense, a defense that would create turnovers. The problem he has had since day one is putting enough athletes on the floor and with the depth to pull that off. One could say that he should have changed styles and he certainly has stopped full court pressing, but he hasn't given up on the rest of his scheme. I think he believes in the style of play and he certainly saw it work under Billy D and his Dad with the great players they got. He seems to love a lightning point guard like lil Dre or Dorsey. There was a stretch before the sex tape scandal where one could see the beginnings of what he wanted to look like. I think they beat Maryland during that stretch when Maryland was top 5. Mason has been a great player but he just doesn't have the top end speed that I think Pitino wants at the point both for defense and offense.

Next year's starting group won't be as good as this year's looked to be, but he will have the depth of quality athletes that he has never had here. It will be a year on the hot seat and we'll see if he can turn them into what he envisions.

One more note- what he did at Florida International before he got here in his one year there was nothing short of amazing. Four or five scholarship players and they went 11-9 in the Sun Belt and lost by 2 points for a trip to the NCAAs. That year, what he did last year and what he did with Mo Walker and that first squad here, make me think he can coach at a high level. Two years he had disasters happen - one relating to the low character of Dorsey (so that's on Pitino) and one that he couldn't have done a thing about. His second year here- to me was his worst coaching job.
 

We're seeing a pattern of posters with fewer than 100 posts claiming point guards are going to start raining out of the sky and that we're going dancing no matter whether a misspelled Oturu is any good or even alive. :confused:

I am one of the new posters. I have appreciated that even people who have disagreed with me and have many, many posts have dialogued with me with respect. Not sure what your intent is here, Bad Gopher, especially after your comment in this thread about respecting everyone's opinion (post #9)..
 

What do you think you are going to gain here? Pitino is going to be the coach here next year. I personally cannot wait to see him have a great year!
This would be a good post by you if we had the squad we started the year with or even close and had this record. 4 of the top 6 players have been eliminated in full or part. Had the squad stayed intact we might be looking at a 40-50 record right now which would put him in statue territory for this program.

He's a good coach, a good recruiter and he's only going to get better. Hang in there. Pitino is here to stay a while. It might be better if our fans didn't give up so easy.

Amen bga1
 


As far as a good coach not one school in the B1G would trade their coach for him. Doubt being the worse coach in a 14 team league means a whole lot.

This is such a big load of bs, are you serious??? Offer me some proof or evidence or ANYTHING that would justify your idiotic opinion and I might change my opinion that your opinion is just plain idiotic.

4 of 6 starters out the majority of the season or injured. THIS YEAR. Last year= B1G conf COY.

Yeah, and no team in the B1G would trade their coach for him?? OMG, where do you get your drugs man, clue me in, I might know a whole nation of drug users that would want some of what you are smoking!!!!
 

I thought Tino was a Fleck-like hire...

I sometimes wonder which came first: Pitino-like or Fleck? Fleck went 2-7 in Big Ten play for a .2222 Big Ten winning percentage in the 2017 Big Ten Football Season. Actually, this year: Pitino might be coaching better in conference play. IF he wins tonight, he will be .23529 for this season in Big Ten play. And Monson had Haskin's sins to pay for. THAT was a real bummer of a deal that greatly impacted player availability...recruiting visits...even scholarship numbers. Not to even mention all the press...negative recruiting and all that jazz.

Both Fleck and Pitino will be here a long time. The Athletic Dept. can not afford to buy them out. Dick and PJ will have a LONG time to learn their trades. That will make everyone happy won't it?
 

I strongly disagree. I think people are really underestimating what we're missing this year and what we will be getting back next year. A rotation of Oturu, Curry, and Stockman is going to be significantly better than a rotation of Konate, Deidhue, and Fitzgerald. Those guys have really held us back this year. I don't care that we haven't seen Oturu or Stockman in the Big Ten yet. Curry alone is better than any of those 3 and Oturu is a big time talent. Getting Amir, Curry, and McBrayer back (he is not even close to being himself right now) will be absolutely huge and more than make up for the loss of Mason, despite how good of a player he is. On top of that, you have to consider the freshman-to-sophomore jump that IW will make. This team is going to be so much deeper and more talented next season and it isn't close.

Ditto Keyser!!!
 

The probability is (barring critical losses) that next year almost has to be better. Nevertheless, even if it is, that doesn't invalidate your other points.

Putting aside the issue of whether Pitino will or will not be here next year, the real question for discussion is how do each of us see the future of this program in Pitino's hands? A very optimistic view might be that he has a Scott Drew of Baylor type of career here (struggles in the early years followed by mostly good-to-very good seasons afterwards). Or, will he be like another son (Keno Davis) of an accomplished coach (Tom Davis) who has had a few good years in a generally unimpressive 10 year career?

Totally put him in the Scott Drew of Baylor category. 2 years of HC experience when we hired him, did anyone truly believe he was just going to instantly become a HOF caliber coach??? I mean, omg, try being realistic, for once. Gopher fans are probably the worst case of a mix of the lowest expectations despite legit reasons to expect more, combined with the highest expectations despite VERY legit reasons to expect less.

Being realistic is not accepting mediocrity. It's accepting THE FACTS, accepting that we can't hire and fire coaches every 4-6 years and wait for that once in a lifetime miracle coach to appear out of nowhere to shock the world. It's accepting the fact that UMn is NOT, and never probably will be the #1 destination of already proven and established coaches, home run hires. Pitino struggled at first, but has a good group of guys into the program now and has more coming and recruiting has been on an upward trend since he got here.


It's simple, if this year hadn't of had all the injuries and Lynch's suspension, all we'd be arguing about is how we shouldn't have lost to this one team or we'd be in position to win the Conf Title. And the Pitino haters would STILL be bitching about him and saying how we could do better.
 



I sometimes wonder which came first: Pitino-like or Fleck? Fleck went 2-7 in Big Ten play for a .2222 Big Ten winning percentage in the 2017 Big Ten Football Season. Actually, this year: Pitino might be coaching better in conference play. IF he wins tonight, he will be .23529 for this season in Big Ten play. And Monson had Haskin's sins to pay for. THAT was a real bummer of a deal that greatly impacted player availability...recruiting visits...even scholarship numbers. Not to even mention all the press...negative recruiting and all that jazz.

Both Fleck and Pitino will be here a long time. The Athletic Dept. can not afford to buy them out. Dick and PJ will have a LONG time to learn their trades. That will make everyone happy won't it?

It will please ME, if both Fleck and Pitino are given a few more years to show what they can do to make UMn what it hasn't been in a very long time. And throw Lucia into that mix as well. Sorry, just don't see the long lists of better candidates that, #1 - we can even get, #2 - that we can afford seeing as we'd have to buy out contracts, etc., #3 - that are even, if points 1 & 2 weren't obstactes, worth going after???


My guess, if we stick with these 3, in 5 years we'll have a Natl Title in hockey, a FF in mbb, and a Big West Title in cfb. But still I am accused of accepting mediocrity?


Thing is, even if we fall short on all 3 of those goals, we won't owe a ton to coaches not coaching here anymore, we'll have one of the cleanest cfb programs ever, we'll consistently finish in the top half of the conf in bb, and will do just as well, if not better, than 90% of teams in chk.
 

Sorry, but that's unlikely. By next season, people will finally be giving Nate Mason the appreciation he deserves as being one of the great scoring point guards in program history. Without him and with a freshman starting at center, the team will almost certainly not make the NCAAs. Even the NIT won't be a certainty. Best case scenario is that we're sitting the following year, in year 7, scratching for the second NCAA appearance in Richard's tenure. As has been discussed, if that's what people had in mind when the U hired him, they had lower expectations than I had.
Mason is a huge loss and will be very tough to replace. Definitely disagree that this team will almost certainly not make the NCAAs. So what if we have a freshman center? Lets look at Kaleb Wesson at Ohio State who was ranked a little lower than Oturu. He is averaging 11 points and 5 rebounds a game in 21 minutes who says Oturu can't do that. We also add Kalascheur who will provide some more 3 point shooting and is a very solid defender and a better athlete than he often gets credit for. You bring back Curry who looked very promising in his freshman season. Omersa will be coming into a position where there should be some depth but he can play and is a very elite athlete with a high ceiling. You also add Stockman who has a decent offensive game and at the very least is gonna provide some size. Also have at least one more scholarship to work with and I trust Pitino and the rest of the staff will be able to add another piece. If the roster that looks to be in place for next year happens I'd be very surprised if the Gophers aren't at bare minimum in the NCAA Tournament.
 

This is such a big load of bs, are you serious??? Offer me some proof or evidence or ANYTHING that would justify your idiotic opinion and I might change my opinion that your opinion is just plain idiotic.

4 of 6 starters out the majority of the season or injured. THIS YEAR. Last year= B1G conf COY.

Yeah, and no team in the B1G would trade their coach for him?? OMG, where do you get your drugs man, clue me in, I might know a whole nation of drug users that would want some of what you are smoking!!!!

What coaches in the conference do you think Pitino is better than ? Just asking your opinion. I think that Izzo, Belein, Miller, Holtmann, Gard,Collins,Painter are all better. In my mind he is close to Miles, Chambers with Underwood undecided. So there are 2-3 that he may be better than. If you were starting a program right now where this one is at which ones would you prefer over him if you got to choose.
 

What coaches in the conference do you think Pitino is better than ? Just asking your opinion. I think that Izzo, Belein, Miller, Holtmann, Gard,Collins,Painter are all better. In my mind he is close to Miles, Chambers with Underwood undecided. So there are 2-3 that he may be better than. If you were starting a program right now where this one is at which ones would you prefer over him if you got to choose.

Gard has the Badgers on a "downward trend"...... don't ya think? :) I think Pitino is better than about 4- even with a couple and has work to do to catch others. The future is in front of him- he's young. I rank him in the upper half as a recruiter and he has to keep getting better as a floor coach and practice coach.
 



Looks like his close game record just got better, thus proving it is a dumb metric
 

What coaches in the conference do you think Pitino is better than ? Just asking your opinion. I think that Izzo, Belein, Miller, Holtmann, Gard,Collins,Painter are all better. In my mind he is close to Miles, Chambers with Underwood undecided. So there are 2-3 that he may be better than. If you were starting a program right now where this one is at which ones would you prefer over him if you got to choose.


"Izzo, Belein, Miller, Holtmann, Gard, Collins, Painter" is not ALL of the B1G. Oh, and btw, you are going to try to tell me, that if all the B1G coaches were put into a draft and it was MSU's pick, and both Izzo and Pitino were available, that MSU would, right now, today, would pick Izzo over Pitino??? lol Ok. I suppose?!

And PSU would pick Joe Pa? I suppose you think UL would pick Pitino Sr???


Another BTW, maybe we should wait until after the MSU thing. AND the FBI have had their time with NCAA bb, and see how many of those coaches you names still have jobs, eh?
 

Mason is a huge loss and will be very tough to replace. Definitely disagree that this team will almost certainly not make the NCAAs. So what if we have a freshman center? Lets look at Kaleb Wesson at Ohio State who was ranked a little lower than Oturu. He is averaging 11 points and 5 rebounds a game in 21 minutes who says Oturu can't do that. We also add Kalascheur who will provide some more 3 point shooting and is a very solid defender and a better athlete than he often gets credit for. You bring back Curry who looked very promising in his freshman season. Omersa will be coming into a position where there should be some depth but he can play and is a very elite athlete with a high ceiling. You also add Stockman who has a decent offensive game and at the very least is gonna provide some size. Also have at least one more scholarship to work with and I trust Pitino and the rest of the staff will be able to add another piece. If the roster that looks to be in place for next year happens I'd be very surprised if the Gophers aren't at bare minimum in the NCAA Tournament.

I posted somewhere else that that's going to be the key question: Oturu. The 4-star freshman center at Arkansas is averaging 11 points per game, so something like that is within the realm of possibility. If we get anything like that from Daniel, we're off to the races. That said, Arkansas probably has better depth behind him; we'd still be thin.
 

I am one of the new posters. I have appreciated that even people who have disagreed with me and have many, many posts have dialogued with me with respect. Not sure what your intent is here, Bad Gopher, especially after your comment in this thread about respecting everyone's opinion (post #9)..

Just making an observation. I trust you're a legit person. Good on you being optimistic.
 

It will please ME, if both Fleck and Pitino are given a few more years to show what they can do to make UMn what it hasn't been in a very long time. And throw Lucia into that mix as well. Sorry, just don't see the long lists of better candidates that, #1 - we can even get, #2 - that we can afford seeing as we'd have to buy out contracts, etc., #3 - that are even, if points 1 & 2 weren't obstactes, worth going after???


My guess, if we stick with these 3, in 5 years we'll have a Natl Title in hockey, a FF in mbb, and a Big West Title in cfb. But still I am accused of accepting mediocrity?


Thing is, even if we fall short on all 3 of those goals, we won't owe a ton to coaches not coaching here anymore, we'll have one of the cleanest cfb programs ever, we'll consistently finish in the top half of the conf in bb, and will do just as well, if not better, than 90% of teams in chk.


Make all the Men's Revenue sports head coaching positions lifetime tenured positions paying no more than the mid-level range for Big Ten Men's Revenue Sports head coaching positions. Put a mandated age 70 retirement clause into their contracts. See how the Big Ten winning percentages compare to the past 50 years. It would be a noble experiment. It would be a BOLD, new concept. How can anyone knock that unless we try it for the next quarter of a century? Let Minnesota BLAZE the way. Does anyone honestly think the results going forward would look any worse than reviewing the results looking back? Put a clause in all contract for removal for conduct unbecoming and detrimental to the University of Minnesota. I think life would probably be better in the long run. Minnesota can not "fire" it's way to prosperity in the Men's Revenue Sports. We have an immense amount of data to compare this bold new experiment to "...the way we were..." in the past quarter century or longer.
 

If Pitino was a better coach, Curry would have never torn his ACL, Lynch wouldn't have gotten suspended/expelled, Coffey wouldn't need shoulder surgery, McBrayer would have a healthy leg, and the ref would have called that obvious foul against Mason. FIRE PITINO!!!!

This year sucks. Next year will be great if people stay healthy. Next season cannot come soon enough.
interesting thread and I am enjoying the different views. Bu I like this post the best, anyway it is my view of things. Sure we all would like this team to be one that is winning more and better yet a team that knocks over opponents easily. We are not there yet but it appears to me next year barring surprises and injury we will be better and maybe much better.
 

I gave you mine and asked you a question on yours. You could have picked Pitino and that would have been ok. It had nothing to do with Paterno or Richards dad. Your supposing is in your mind, no where near what i think. The board is for offering opinions and you seem to think if someone disagrees with you then they are wrong. Quit applying a double standard where you say only final 4's and NCAA titles count and then you brag about conference coach of the year ! He did a wonderful job last year but the award was partly due to coming of the worst season in Gopher History. Win one coming off a winning record and you have really done something. I tip my hat on what i think he has improved. He recruits better than Tubby, the ball moves better, his youth offers more hope and requires more patience. i AM in, but i want more no matter how hard the job is. I do not want Miles like results. Other coaches have won more and some of them in as tough or tougher jobs than this. Quit using luck, both good and bad. You either get it done or you do not.
 

I posted somewhere else that that's going to be the key question: Oturu. The 4-star freshman center at Arkansas is averaging 11 points per game, so something like that is within the realm of possibility. If we get anything like that from Daniel, we're off to the races. That said, Arkansas probably has better depth behind him; we'd still be thin.

Curry can play some center and Stockman. That's good depth. I was thinking about what you could do if you wanted to play a few minutes of zone defense next year. Stockman 7-2 Murphy 6-7 Curry 6-9 Coffey 6-7 McBrayer 6-5 for a skyscraper lineup!
 

I posted somewhere else that that's going to be the key question: Oturu. The 4-star freshman center at Arkansas is averaging 11 points per game, so something like that is within the realm of possibility. If we get anything like that from Daniel, we're off to the races. That said, Arkansas probably has better depth behind him; we'd still be thin.

Oturu is the real deal. Great question though as November is a long way off and the step up is large. He has very strong hands, length and top end coordination. I could see 14-18 minutes.
 

At least we get a high draft choice.
 

Curry can play some center and Stockman. That's good depth. I was thinking about what you could do if you wanted to play a few minutes of zone defense next year. Stockman 7-2 Murphy 6-7 Curry 6-9 Coffey 6-7 McBrayer 6-5 for a skyscraper lineup!

If they can get the ball across half court they'd be hard to guard.
 






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