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builtbadgers said:
You are now in the business of determining that someone else is offending their own god ! Who are you to to put others down or judge . Fyi, Tubby got lucky to inherit great players at UK but he was not lucky in getting that job. He won that job. Who actually did better at Minnesota Tubby or Richard ?
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Tubby's last 3 years were his worst. Pitino's year 4, 5 & 6 will be his best. Simple as that. Tubby earned the opportunity to get hired by UK, but UK doesn't have a Natl Title winning team very often, so in that sense Tubby got lucky. Then UK fans didn't want him anymore and same with Gopher fans and now same with Memphis fans.


As for "Who are you to...judge"? If I studied about the Moslem religion in college, and saw someone online referring to the Moslem Creator as Ahlloof, would I be wrong to point out to him that it was dishonorable to refer to the Moslem's Deity in such a way? No, I wouldn't. And if someone else said, "Damn Ahlloof", technically they would not have done anything wrong since the name/title "Ahlloof" is not the Moslem Creator's name, and even if it could be argued that he did do something wrong, the original person referring to the Moslem Creator as "Ahlloof" so disrespectfully, shouldn't be the one scolding the person.

Since you don't seem to have a clue what I am talking about, its probably the case that you also don't know the difference between translation and transLITERation and how they relate to names and titles, etc., and how important they are.

I mean hell, for a number of possible reasons, none of which I'd consider legit, at least one fan here tried to question my intelligence for misspelling a player's name, despite the fact that it was a very minor mistake and one that wouldn't even change how you pronounce his name. What does that say about our society when a sport's fans intelligence can be questioned if they misspell a players name, but misspelling of a religion's Deity's name is no big deal.

And to keep this discussion sports/bb/Gopher related, the player's name was McBrayer, and I spelled his name McBreyer. Not sure if it was a one time thing or if I've been spelling his name wrong the whole time? But I will ask you, does it offend you if I, claiming to be a Gopher bb fan, misspell McBrayer's name? Or do you think it is proof of my not being intelligent?
 



GophersInIowa said:
Not really. Even the best coaches in America will recruit guys who end up being non-contributors.
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So he gets passes for Konate, Diedhou, Hurt and Fitzgerald being non-contributors and the when two injuries derail the season he gets a pass for that?
 

Bad Gopher said:
This is year 5, and you're calling this his best? Hoo boy.
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a great year 4, combined with what I expect to be a great year 6, will show that this year was a fluke, and that the HUGE # of injuries, not Pitino, were to blame for it. Duh.

And neither Clem, Monson or Tubby had good 5th years, either. But they didn't have anything close to the legit excuse/explanation that Pitino has this year.
 


howeda7 said:
So he gets passes for Konate, Diedhou, Hurt and Fitzgerald being non-contributors and the when two injuries derail the season he gets a pass for that?
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I would say yes, as a young guy with just 2 years Head Coaching experience, taking the HC position at a LAUGHINGSTOCK of a program, that he should get a pass on Bakary & Gaston. As for Hurt and Fitzgerald? They have contributed here and there. Fitz was out of the game for 2 seasons, his needing the additional redshirt season because of being injured, can't be put on Pitino, and its possible he just needs more time to adjust to playing again, and at such a high level? He may improve as this season goes on and has another year of eligibility if he wants it. He could end up having a break out season next year? Hurt was not one of Pitino's Top 10 recruits, and if not for all of the injuries, would have sat near the end of the bench with Bakary and Gaston, being called upon for a few minutes here and there, but would have been the guy you look for to have a breakout season his Jr or Sr year, becoming like a great 6th or 7th man off the bench. I don't think anyone should be writing him off as a recruiting miss just yet.
 

howeda7 said:
So he gets passes for Konate, Diedhou, Hurt and Fitzgerald being non-contributors and the when two injuries derail the season he gets a pass for that?
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Go back and read my post. I said Konate and Diedhou were big misses. I understand taking a chance on one of them but not both. But since then recruiting has been pretty solid. A few misses but that’s not uncommon.

I’m more critical of all the transfers. I get it with a guy like Lynch. But constantly having a player taking up a scholarship spot that can’t play will hurt the depth.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Go back and read my post. I said Konate and Diedhou were big misses. I understand taking a chance on one of them but not both. But since then recruiting has been pretty solid. A few misses but that’s not uncommon.

I’m more critical of all the transfers. I get it with a guy like Lynch. But constantly having a player taking up a scholarship spot that can’t play will hurt the depth.
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This. I think most posters feel exactly the same. If you can't give him a pass on BK and GD, the only alternative is to fire him and find a new coach.

Ask yourself this question. Is his recruiting since BK and GD so bad that you want RP fired? I argue that it's trending so positively that we'd be foolish to can him at this point.

I think most posters "defending" Pitino, are only doing so to the extent that he deserves further opportunity here to prove that he's capable. Not that he's "proven" much up to this point, but that there is promise for the future.

It's the posters stating that there is no promise and that he's proven he's terrible, that are perpetuating this ridiculousness.
 

GopherHoopsFan said:
This. I think most posters feel exactly the same. If you can't give him a pass on BK and GD, the only alternative is to fire him and find a new coach.

Ask yourself this question. Is his recruiting since BK and GD so bad that you want RP fired? I argue that it's trending so positively that we'd be foolish to can him at this point.

I think most posters "defending" Pitino, are only doing so to the extent that he deserves further opportunity here to prove that he's capable. Not that he's "proven" much up to this point, but that there is promise for the future.

It's the posters stating that there is no promise and that he's proven he's terrible, that are perpetuating this ridiculousness.
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I don't think the failure of BK and Gas are the only reasons people are upset. I think Rutgers being the only B1G team worse than us during Pitino's tenure has more to do with that.

Recruiting alone should never be a reason that a coach keeps his job. Should we wait and see how he does next year? I'm not opposed to that. No question he has dealt with some difficult circumstances as far as injuries/suspensions.
 



bizzle22 said:
I don't think the failure of BK and Gas are the only reasons people are upset. I think Rutgers being the only B1G team worse than us during Pitino's tenure has more to do with that.

Recruiting alone should never be a reason that a coach keeps his job. Should we wait and see how he does next year? I'm not opposed to that. No question he has dealt with some difficult circumstances as far as injuries/suspensions.
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Yeah sure, some of you are willing to say, "sure, give him one more year", and some of you are also willing to acknowledge the difficult circumstances as far as injuries/suspension, but yet you still want to add his losses from this year to his w/l total so that you can continue to bitch and moan and whine and cry and nitpick and complain.


EVEN WITH this year's injuries, etc., preventing him from having the year that most of us expected him to have, he's still got MORE WINS than Monson had after 5 years, and he's only 1 shy of matching Clem's 5 year win total.


Even some of Pitino's biggest critics admit that with Lynch and Coffey we'd probably be at 8 or 9 wins right now, and with Iowa and Wisc still yet to play, 10-11 wins is what he would have won. That would have put him just 2 wins shy of Tubby's 5 year total, with the difference being Tubby's downward trend and Pitino's upward trend.
 

Edit: added Muss & Dutch's 4th and 5th yr conf w/l totals

Muss's year 4 & 5 = 6-8, 11-7 - total 17-15 then he got fired, for what I've heard was a lot of violations, so no one should be judged against him
Dutch's year 4 & 5 = 6-12, 10-8 - total 16-20 - so Pitino is just a 2-2 finish away from matching Dutcher.

Tubby's Year 4 & 5 = 6-12, 6-12 - total 12-24
Monson's Yr 4 & 5 = 8-8, 3-13 - total 11-21
Clem's Year 4 & 5 = 11-7, 5-13 - total 16-20
Pitino's Year 4 & 5 = 11-7, 3-11 - total 14-18


So Pitino's only 2 wins away from having the BEST 4 & 5 year win total and he's still got 2 losses in hand as well.

Like all the Pitino defenders have been saying, things under Pitino are TRENDING UPWARDS, which is different than the 3 previous coaches.

Now imagine what that would look like had we had Lynch & Coffey or Coffey & Curry, or Lynch and Curry? Conservatively he's be at worst 18-14 right now, and WAY better than those other 3.
 

Has he done as well coaching after losing a significant portion of his team as Jim Dutcher did after Madison trip birthed the Iron 5? Maybe, Dutcher was only able to get 2 more wins out of the Gophers after the team was gutted. John Shasky (played in NBA), Marc Wilson, Tim Hanson, Kelvin Smith and Ray Gaffney were all good B1G level players who luckily for Dutcher filled all five positions naturally. Although, the Iowa team they beat was pretty loaded with Armstrong, Marble, Sir Jamalot(Gerry Wright), andre Banks, etc...

If Pitino still had a center they would be better off, but you can't expect much considering the circumstances.
 

Otis said:
Has he done as well coaching after losing a significant portion of his team as Jim Dutcher did after Madison trip birthed the Iron 5? Maybe, Dutcher was only able to get 2 more wins out of the Gophers after the team was gutted. John Shasky (played in NBA), Marc Wilson, Tim Hanson, Kelvin Smith and Ray Gaffney were all good B1G level players who luckily for Dutcher filled all five positions naturally. Although, the Iowa team they beat was pretty loaded with Armstrong, Marble, Sir Jamalot(Gerry Wright), andre Banks, etc...

If Pitino still had a center they would be better off, but you can't expect much considering the circumstances.
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Good point. Pitino's got 1 so far, and 2 beatable teams are coming up. And yeah, if we had either Lynch or Curry, we could have won a couple of the games we lost, even with Coffey out and McBrayer bobbled.

But I thought the Iron 5 was the crew that remained after the brawl? Muss led them to the Big Ten Title even.
 



Otis said:
Has he done as well coaching after losing a significant portion of his team as Jim Dutcher did after Madison trip birthed the Iron 5? Maybe, Dutcher was only able to get 2 more wins out of the Gophers after the team was gutted. John Shasky (played in NBA), Marc Wilson, Tim Hanson, Kelvin Smith and Ray Gaffney were all good B1G level players who luckily for Dutcher filled all five positions naturally. Although, the Iowa team they beat was pretty loaded with Armstrong, Marble, Sir Jamalot(Gerry Wright), andre Banks, etc...

If Pitino still had a center they would be better off, but you can't expect much considering the circumstances.
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This is by far and away the biggest reason the reason the season has flown off the rails. We do not have a legitimate B10 big man on this roster. It screws everything up on this team. It kills us defensively down low, Murphy gets double teamed constantly and our guards struggle to drive because teams do not have to wory about Konate or Gaston as threats to dish to. It also makes our guards look worse on defense because if they get beat on the perimiter, the play is over since we don't have a rim protector.

Mark my words, we will be significantley better next year with legitiamte big men much like we jumped significantly once Lynch joined the team from the year before.
 

bizzle22 said:
I don't think the failure of BK and Gas are the only reasons people are upset. I think Rutgers being the only B1G team worse than us during Pitino's tenure has more to do with that.

Recruiting alone should never be a reason that a coach keeps his job. Should we wait and see how he does next year? I'm not opposed to that. No question he has dealt with some difficult circumstances as far as injuries/suspensions.
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I was referencing BK and GD in a nutshell, I didn't intend to imply that they're the only reason people are upset.

Regarding the Rutgers comment, I'm happy with RP because we finished 4th place in the conference in his 4th year. We would have finished higher in year 5 if things hadn't fallen apart beginning with Curry. Rutgers hasn't finished above .500 in conference play since 1991 when they were in the A10.

I agree with you that recruiting alone doesn't justify keeping a coach. He won a school record number of games last year. Circumstances have changed this season's expectations as you noted.
 

Frank Grimey Grimes said:
This is by far and away the biggest reason the reason the season has flown off the rails. We do not have a legitimate B10 big man on this roster. It screws everything up on this team. It kills us defensively down low, Murphy gets double teamed constantly and our guards struggle to drive because teams do not have to wory about Konate or Gaston as threats to dish to. It also makes our guards look worse on defense because if they get beat on the perimiter, the play is over since we don't have a rim protector.

Mark my words, we will be significantley better next year with legitiamte big men much like we jumped significantly once Lynch joined the team from the year before.
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Bingo
 

GopherHoopsFan said:
I was referencing BK and GD in a nutshell, I didn't intend to imply that they're the only reason people are upset.

Regarding the Rutgers comment, I'm happy with RP because we finished 4th place in the conference in his 4th year. We would have finished higher in year 5 if things hadn't fallen apart beginning with Curry. Rutgers hasn't finished above .500 in conference play since 1991 when they were in the A10.

I agree with you that recruiting alone doesn't justify keeping a coach. He won a school record number of games last year. Circumstances have changed this season's expectations as you noted.
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That is an unknown and people throwing it out there as a guarantee doesn't provide the proof that the problems with this team are limited to the suspension and injuries.
 

KillmeNow said:
Yeah sure, some of you are willing to say, "sure, give him one more year", and some of you are also willing to acknowledge the difficult circumstances as far as injuries/suspension, but yet you still want to add his losses from this year to his w/l total
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The gall of some people!
 

KillmeNow said:
Edit: added Muss & Dutch's 4th and 5th yr conf w/l totals

Muss's year 4 & 5 = 6-8, 11-7 - total 17-15 then he got fired, for what I've heard was a lot of violations, so no one should be judged against him
Dutch's year 4 & 5 = 6-12, 10-8 - total 16-20 - so Pitino is just a 2-2 finish away from matching Dutcher.

Tubby's Year 4 & 5 = 6-12, 6-12 - total 12-24
Monson's Yr 4 & 5 = 8-8, 3-13 - total 11-21
Clem's Year 4 & 5 = 11-7, 5-13 - total 16-20
Pitino's Year 4 & 5 = 11-7, 3-11 - total 14-18


So Pitino's only 2 wins away from having the BEST 4 & 5 year win total and he's still got 2 losses in hand as well..
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And from the looks of it, Pitino fits right in here at Laughingstock of a cbb program U, umm, I mean UMn.
 

scools12 said:
That is an unknown and people throwing it out there as a guarantee doesn't provide the proof that the problems with this team are limited to the suspension and injuries.
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And throwing out year 4 as if IT was the fluke also doesn't provide the proof that all the losses in year 5 are all of Pitino's fault, either.
 

howeda7 said:
The gall of some people!
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Well, technically, fine, it is what it is. And Dutcher's 5 year conf record is 36-36. You know, because "technically" year 2 doesn't count.


But someone trying to make an HONEST assessment of a coaches skills as a coach, would never discount Dutch's 15-3 season. And would look at him, as a coach, as a guy that led the team to 51-39 record in conf, not 36-36.


So if you were trying to make an HONEST assessment of Pitino's skills as a coach, ignoring this season completely would not be the worst idea. IMO

But do as you want, I'm sure something about you as a person just compels you to whine and cry and bitch and moan and complain and be negative while you sit in your armchair thinking you could do so much better of a job than Pitino is doing. Or the AD for not firing him, or the Pres for not firing the AD, or whatever other negative things go through your GENIUS of a mind. Too bad YOU didn't apply for the coaching job and beat out Pitino, then we'd be winning B1G Conf Titles by now, right?
 

scools12 said:
That is an unknown and people throwing it out there as a guarantee doesn't provide the proof that the problems with this team are limited to the suspension and injuries.
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Obviously it doesn't, but thanks for pointing it out. However, considering that the B1G is incredibly weak after MSU, Purdue, and OSU (and isn't even that strong at the top) I can "guarantee" that the Gophers would have finished 4th or better. And if they hadn't, at that point in time I would have lost some faith in Pitino. But, since we'll never get the chance to know for sure we should just fire him. Yeah, let's fire him!
 

KillmeNow said:
Edit: added Muss & Dutch's 4th and 5th yr conf w/l totals

Muss's year 4 & 5 = 6-8, 11-7 - total 17-15 then he got fired, for what I've heard was a lot of violations, so no one should be judged against him
Dutch's year 4 & 5 = 6-12, 10-8 - total 16-20 - so Pitino is just a 2-2 finish away from matching Dutcher.

Tubby's Year 4 & 5 = 6-12, 6-12 - total 12-24
Monson's Yr 4 & 5 = 8-8, 3-13 - total 11-21
Clem's Year 4 & 5 = 11-7, 5-13 - total 16-20
Pitino's Year 4 & 5 = 11-7, 3-11 - total 14-18


So Pitino's only 2 wins away from having the BEST 4 & 5 year win total and he's still got 2 losses in hand as well.

Like all the Pitino defenders have been saying, things under Pitino are TRENDING UPWARDS, which is different than the 3 previous coaches.

Now imagine what that would look like had we had Lynch & Coffey or Coffey & Curry, or Lynch and Curry? Conservatively he's be at worst 18-14 right now, and WAY better than those other 3.
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Why compare him to coaches who had mediocre career win loss records at Minnesota. Fans do not want more below average regimes. Compare him to those that built winning programs at other schools who previously sucked and became very strong. Why try and get people to buy way below the line that other programs went above.
 

builtbadgers said:
Why compare him to coaches who had mediocre career win loss records at Minnesota. Fans do not want more below average regimes. Compare him to those that built winning programs at other schools who previously sucked and became very strong. Why try and get people to buy way below the line that other programs went above.
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Good point. Those success stories are rare (given how many coaches are hired each and every year), but still a good point.
 

KillmeNow said:
Well, technically, fine, it is what it is. And Dutcher's 5 year conf record is 36-36. You know, because "technically" year 2 doesn't count.


But someone trying to make an HONEST assessment of a coaches skills as a coach, would never discount Dutch's 15-3 season. And would look at him, as a coach, as a guy that led the team to 51-39 record in conf, not 36-36.


So if you were trying to make an HONEST assessment of Pitino's skills as a coach, ignoring this season completely would not be the worst idea. IMO

But do as you want, I'm sure something about you as a person just compels you to whine and cry and bitch and moan and complain and be negative while you sit in your armchair thinking you could do so much better of a job than Pitino is doing. Or the AD for not firing him, or the Pres for not firing the AD, or whatever other negative things go through your GENIUS of a mind. Too bad YOU didn't apply for the coaching job and beat out Pitino, then we'd be winning B1G Conf Titles by now, right?
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If they hired a great coach we would not have a appalling record of losses after year 5. Every coach has years where things are out of your control but it is a bottom line business and this is a horrific bottom line.That is what upsets fans who think that they won loss 5 year record sucked. After a decent year last year it still was terrible. Quit comparing to average coaches. We want more.
 

builtbadgers said:
If they hired a great coach we would not have a appalling record of losses after year 5. Every coach has years where things are out of your control but it is a bottom line business and this is a horrific bottom line.That is what upsets fans who think that they won loss 5 year record sucked. After a decent year last year it still was terrible. Quit comparing to average coaches. We want more.
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Best season in school history (total W's), FIFY.
 

When you consider that Clem sold the future to get his 4th year success, and struggled for several years after that to build another roster that could get to the Sweet 16 or beyond, I'd say Pitino had THE BEST Year 4 of anyone, going as far back as Musselman.


Year 4s

Muss = 6 wins followed by 11 then got fired
Dutch = 6 wins followed by 10
Clem = 11 wins followed by 5
DanM = 8 wins followed by 3
Tubby = 6 wins followed by 6
Pitino = 11 wins.

And that 11 win team was supposed to be losing just 1 Sr and bringing in 2 frosh.


Anyone that denies that Pitino was trending UPWARDS, unlike everyone before him, is just either blind or they hate Pitino for some reason or maybe are just stupid?



Has this season pointed out some issues that maybe were not so easy to see last year? Sure. But I seriously can't wait to bring this season's discussions back up in year 10, and again in year 11. Why 11? That is the year Dutch departed, and the year Clem got to the Final 4.


Btw, technically Dutch finished his career UNDER .500 in conf play.

Tubby finished his career 16 games under .500

Clem finished his career 18 games under .500

Monson finished his career 34 games under .500?


Only the guy who got fired after 5 years, Musselman, got us over .500 in conf play.



This season may be like getting tripped in a race, Pitino's having to come from behind, but my money is on him to finish his career here as the winningest coach in Gopher cbb history, or at least modern day history.
 

Few quality wins, lost to mid major in first round. Strength of wins was weak. I have no problem if someone describes it as a real good year. For me without a tourney win i would call it decent.
 

builtbadgers said:
Why compare him to coaches who had mediocre career win loss records at Minnesota. Fans do not want more below average regimes. Compare him to those that built winning programs at other schools who previously sucked and became very strong. Why try and get people to buy way below the line that other programs went above.
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Well, because that is all we apparently could find, that was open to coaching here, a mediocre coach, and I say mediocre, because its almost IMPOSSIBLE to find a guy with just 2 years of head coaching experience that anyone can describe as better than mediocre, just not enough time to prove much of anything.

I don't believe great coaches want to coach here. And they never will, not until the U takes the time to patiently let someone LIKE Pitino, turn things around for the program, to become a GREAT coach himself.


Give him time, with the new facilities, with next year's returning/incoming players remaining mostly healthy(1 injury could and probably will happen, just not 3-4) he'll have 13 scholarship players, allowed to play, I predict we'll make the NCAA tourney with 10 or more conf wins. It will be evident that this year was the fluke, and his next recruiting class will be along the lines of his last 3-4 classes I hope? Hopefully this year doesn't scare any of our realistic targets away? If it does, I'm confident Pitino will figure something out.
 

builtbadgers said:
Few quality wins, lost to mid major in first round. Strength of wins was weak. I have no problem if someone describes it as a real good year. For me without a tourney win i would call it decent.
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Well they did go from a seven man rotation to a six man rotation one game prior to their NCAA appearance. Prior to that I thought it was a great year.
 

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