Why is it not cool to stay at home and play for the Gophers?

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dpodoll68 said:
I'm quite aware. Your made-up interpretation that follows is your own fantasy, not how it actually works.



That didn't happen. Oh, and P.S. - recruit rankings change all the time without the recruit playing a game. They go to camps and perform well against other high-level prospects, leading to higher ratings and more offers. They get more offers because they've proven themselves as higher-quality prospects. They don't get rated more highly because of offers.



False.



Again, that doesn't happen.
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My man I’m just telling you what I know to be true from my first hand experience with the recruiting process and talent “evaluators.”

How did you arrive at your opinion?


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For years, the conventional wisdom was that you could get linemen from MN, but had to go out-state for skilled players, because of the speed factor.

From my point of view, I want the Gophers to recruit the best players they can find who want to play football at MN. If those players are from MN, great. If they're from Timbuktoo, great. As long as they can play.

IF the coaches have to make a choice between two players who are equal in their evaluation, then yeah, take the MN player over an out-of-state player. But, if the out-of-state player is better, you take the better player over the MN player.

As far as Sporty's point of view - if you're talking about a backup player, a special teams player, a scout-team player - then yes, I would give some preference to MN kids over out-of-state kids. But kids like Ham and Thielen are exceptions. I see a lot of HS FB in MN, and, with all respect, I just don't think the Gophers are missing on a lot of undiscovered talent. The difference is in speed and athletic ability. For me, given a choice, take the faster player every time. You can teach technique - you can't teach raw speed.

In closing - (and I admit this will never happen), if the Gophers won a B1G title, and they did not have a single MN player in the lineup, would anyone complain? Bleep no. Winning trumps all other considerations.

Threads like this come up after losing seasons, because it gives people something to complain about. Win - and the complaints go away.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
My man I’m just telling you what I know to be true from my first hand experience with the recruiting process and talent “evaluators.”

How did you arrive at your opinion?
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It's not opinion. Rankings aren't based on quality and quantity of offers. You ascribing cause-and-effect to something that may or may not have happened doesn't change that.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Aside from Rick Rubio[emoji1][emoji1] I don’t Troll. There is a reason NDSU has been so successful the last 30 years. It’s because they are getting D1 Mn Talent the Gophers are ignoring while the Gophers are getting over ranked from out of state.

My man, if given the opportunity Adam Thielen would have STARTED for ANY college football team in the COUNTRY. NFL All Pro receivers tend to do that.

I have stood on the Gopher sideline during practice many a year as a recruited player, parent of a recruited player and coach of a recruited player and let me break the news to you. The Gophers have always had absolute garbage from the very places you mentioned.

I’m old enough to remember there was a time when the prevailing thought were in basketball Mn only offered big men and there were no skilled position players to be had. That only changed when other schools started winning championships with Mn skilled players. Then and only then did Mn start recruiting skilled players from their own back yard. They were always here.

NDSU has created a dynasty off of players the Gophers have ignored.


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If we switched rosters with NDSU they would still have a dynasty, and we would be even worse.
 


Since the Brewster years, the gophers have pretty much gotten who they wanted from in state other than on rare occasions. Pretty sure that's how it is all over the country. Some probably do better, some worse. I would guess we do better than average.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Great points. I would argue that you are relying on polls from idiots who never played football. You may want to familiarize yourself with how the polls/rankings work. Case in point. James Lauranitis was a 3 Star Gopher commit. After his senior season he changed his mind and committed to Ohio State where miraculously he became a 4 Star recruit without ever playing a game. Rankings are based on “quality” of offer and number of offers.

NDSU? It’s what I just described. If the 20th ranked player gets an offer from NDSU he will leap frog those who don’t. Does that mean those players weren’t better or does it mean NDSU needed a DB and the other players are linemen? Imagine if one is a really great QB but NDSU has a freshman named Carson Wentz. But your point is valid, I will concede that.


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Oh, and to make this post even funnier - I went and looked up Laurinaitis' recruiting profile. Not only was he not a 4-star, he wasn't even a borderline 4-star.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Fair points but your analysis is faulty. Certainly they are signing with big schools but so what? What are they doing when they get there? Are they playing? More importantly, what’s going on with the players who arrive from those states for the Gophers? That’s my real point. And to be clear, I am saying that NDSU and schools like SW State are getting players to various degrees that the Gophers should be recruiting.

We only know about Adam Theilen and CJ Ham because they got an opportunity to play for the Vikings. How many are out there YOU don’t know about because they weren’t giving that opportunity? Maybe they even agree with you and didn’t give themselves an opportunity.

Go find any Mn kid who has been affiliated with the Gopher program and I guarantee they will tell you the same thing. The majority of the out of state signees are nothing special when compared to good Mn football players.

You think Mn doesn’t have multiple Kyle Therets out there? No knock on Kyle he started on a couple Gopher bowl teams.

30 years ago a fat 5’7 Basketball guard from Mn would have been hard pressed to get a offer from Wisconsin Stout. Yet one did get an offer from UConn and win a national championship as the 2nd best player on the team.


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Obviously players are going to fall through the cracks. The gophers bring in plenty of local kids that do absolutely nothing, and they've hit on some as well, better than any other school has. Decker, Max Williams, Barber, Utecht, Spaeth, Eslinger, Setterstrom. You don't recruit 20 kids a year locally just to find one that is great. And no, I don't think Minnesota has multiple Kyle Therets every year. Also I don't know what you are talking about in regards to El Amin. He had offers from other good schools like Kansas and Gtown, as well as Minnesota.
 

What I have learned in this thread...
1. Kids would only sign with a CFB team if they loved the city it was located in.
2. The recruit ranking process is pure and void of unjust outside influences.
3. The Gophers have locked down the borders in the past decade on who we want, with only rare exceptions.


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The University of Minnesota isn’t a cool brand. Unless you grew up going to Gopher games and both your parents went to the U, you have no real affinity for it.

You might go to the U because it’s closest to your family, but you’re not going because it’s “cool”.

If you don’t care about proximity to home and didn’t grow up as a gopher fan, you’re just as likely to consider any power 5 school compared to the U.


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Spoofin said:
What I have learned in this thread...
1. Kids would only sign with a CFB team if they loved the city it was located in.
2. The recruit ranking process is pure and void of unjust outside influences.
3. The Gophers have locked down the borders in the past decade on who we want, with only rare exceptions.


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Click to expand...

You disagree with 3?
 

btowngopher said:
You disagree with 3?
Click to expand...

We have done very well in-state, but the misses we have had tend to be the ones we needed the most. Good reasons for those misses, but the instate recruiting hasn't been as rosy as the raw # of commits may indicate.


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short ornery norwegian said:
For years, the conventional wisdom was that you could get linemen from MN, but had to go out-state for skilled players, because of the speed factor.

From my point of view, I want the Gophers to recruit the best players they can find who want to play football at MN. If those players are from MN, great. If they're from Timbuktoo, great. As long as they can play.

IF the coaches have to make a choice between two players who are equal in their evaluation, then yeah, take the MN player over an out-of-state player. But, if the out-of-state player is better, you take the better player over the MN player.

As far as Sporty's point of view - if you're talking about a backup player, a special teams player, a scout-team player - then yes, I would give some preference to MN kids over out-of-state kids. But kids like Ham and Thielen are exceptions. I see a lot of HS FB in MN, and, with all respect, I just don't think the Gophers are missing on a lot of undiscovered talent. The difference is in speed and athletic ability. For me, given a choice, take the faster player every time. You can teach technique - you can't teach raw speed.

In closing - (and I admit this will never happen), if the Gophers won a B1G title, and they did not have a single MN player in the lineup, would anyone complain? Bleep no. Winning trumps all other considerations.

Threads like this come up after losing seasons, because it gives people something to complain about. Win - and the complaints go away.
Click to expand...

Not true. It would be pointed out by one of the many “fine” writers at the STrib


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This is a stupid thread. Three instate players committed this year, all of whom had other options. Have done pretty well in football with Kill and Fleck overall. You will never get them all. Every school has in-state players leave simply to try something new. Just look at Ohio players to Michigan, and the other way. WI has lost numerous players in basketball recently, and a few football players as well.


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First off there is some weird misplaced disdain for the U among some Minnesotans. Two we sit right next door two state schools who have recent success and our success is ancient history. Tonight JJWatt was presented the Walter Payton award here and two Wisconsin runnings backs are making plays. We have articles in the paper about the Fahnhorst brothers who played here in the 70s. We have no success on the field and no significant players in the NFL in decades. Finally student life. For three decades we played in an empty depressing dome and we had terrible facilities and you get **** on by the local media. Go to Madison and you are treated like a celebrity. Go here and the media searches the Hennepin county jail roster for your name every morning. We have improved our facilities enormously and upgraded our coaching staff so maybe things will get better but the story at the U for 50 years has been football is an afterthought.
 

If a certain sect of the pop had its way, football would have gone away in the mid to late 50s. But our stupid coach pulled off a surprise Natl Title in 1960. And with Negroes, too, OMG.

They may not have succeeded in shutting down the football program back then, but they basically won, because they brought down one of the greatest cfb programs EVER, and it's been a frigging joke now for over 50 years.

If you could go back in time and was given 2 choices, off Hitler in 1939 or those responsible for screwing up Gopher football in the 50s, which would you choose? I mean, the Allies STILL won the war at least, so....
 

btowngopher said:
Obviously players are going to fall through the cracks. The gophers bring in plenty of local kids that do absolutely nothing, and they've hit on some as well, better than any other school has. Decker, Max Williams, Barber, Utecht, Spaeth, Eslinger, Setterstrom. You don't recruit 20 kids a year locally just to find one that is great. And no, I don't think Minnesota has multiple Kyle Therets every year. Also I don't know what you are talking about in regards to El Amin. He had offers from other good schools like Kansas and Gtown, as well as Minnesota.
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I’m tired; let’s just keep doing the same old thing. It’s worked wonders. I’m a Bison fan so I’m cool with it. The Gophers get the Kyle Therets and Christian Lewis’s and the Bison get the Craig Dahl’s and Marcus Williams.

To be clear; unlike Lewis, Kyle wasn’t a bad player. But there are Kyle’s coming out of a Mn high school every freaking year. 5’9 190 safety’s who run 4’7’s and don’t cover aren’t that hard to find. If they are from Mn they just usually become a national champion for the Bison.

One day someone will figure it out. Go Bison.

My point about El Amin was that 30-40 years ago like Jay Rundles, Harlan Hill and Ricky Suggs he would have ended up at a d2 school because everyone knew MN didn’t produce guards.

20 MN kids a year? Admitted exaggeration but we aren’t getting anywhere near the number of kids we should because NDSU is far to successful.


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KillmeNow said:
If a certain sect of the pop had its way, football would have gone away in the mid to late 50s. But our stupid coach pulled off a surprise Natl Title in 1960. And with Negroes, too, OMG.

They may not have succeeded in shutting down the football program back then, but they basically won, because they brought down one of the greatest cfb programs EVER, and it's been a frigging joke now for over 50 years.

If you could go back in time and was given 2 choices, off Hitler in 1939 or those responsible for screwing up Gopher football in the 50s, which would you choose? I mean, the Allies STILL won the war at least, so....
Click to expand...

Sounds almost like the 2002 Gopher golf team. Uhm, we are shutting you down, oops, you just won a national championship, I guess we can raise the money to keep the golf team.
 

gophmeister said:
First off there is some weird misplaced disdain for the U among some Minnesotans. Two we sit right next door two state schools who have recent success and our success is ancient history. Tonight JJWatt was presented the Walter Payton award here and two Wisconsin runnings backs are making plays. We have articles in the paper about the Fahnhorst brothers who played here in the 70s. We have no success on the field and no significant players in the NFL in decades. Finally student life. For three decades we played in an empty depressing dome and we had terrible facilities and you get **** on by the local media. Go to Madison and you are treated like a celebrity. Go here and the media searches the Hennepin county jail roster for your name every morning. We have improved our facilities enormously and upgraded our coaching staff so maybe things will get better but the story at the U for 50 years has been football is an afterthought.
Click to expand...

It’s a form of self hate. We don’t think we are good enough. We would rather be excited over a scrub from out of state vs our MN kids. People actually believe that a kid from Texas chooses to play for the Gophers. No, 9 out of 10 times that’s his only or best option.



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The NCAA, and possibly the rest of the nation, simply HATES US. And if they tell you that they don't, that they just don't even pay us any attention, its because they don't have to, BECAUSE THEY HATE US, and the NCAA does most of the work for them, in all my life, I've only heard of them going after one single hockey program in all of history, and it was ours. Wasn't a huge thing, but it was one of the reasons Woog was let go??? Name me one other hockey program they've ever investigated???

They HATE US because we are from the Frozen Tundra, and if we ever win anything significant, well, that would be a huge slap in the rest of the country's face. A bunch of bumpkins from the Frozen Tundra were able to beat them???

Then the big "brawl" that happened between us and OSU? It's simple, we were one of those Fing schools that pushed the Race issue, we kept bringing in the "negroes", and most did not like this, INCLUDING ALL OF THE OTHER Big Ten schools. We were suppose to "allow" only one token black onto our team. But Muss dared bring in a whole bunch of them, including one particular player the league coaches had agreed to not recruit, of course this happened before Muss was hired. So he recruited that player and several other "negroes" before anyone could tell him that wasn't "accepted" practices in the Big Ten. And the rest of the conference and nation hated us for this. And when OSU's racist coach fired up his players enough that one of them spat in one of our players faces when our player was trying to help him up off the flour, our guy lost it and retaliated by kneeing the guy in the balls as he helping him to his feet. The OSU player, years later became a born again Christian and admitted that he did in fact spit in our players face and called him a "nigger" after spitting in his face.

But who got painted as the bad guys in that whole incident??? Our Gophers did. And it was not long after this that Musselman and the program came under NCAA investigation and got nailed, all while UCLA got away with murder without even a slap on the wrist.

And our 1977 season was completely erased because of one player selling 2 of his complementary tickets.

The NCAA wouldn't give a program more than a slap on the wrist for the same thing today, but we lost an entire season, arguably our best ever!!!


Our Softball teams wins more games than any other program in the nation last year, finishes the season with BOTH the B1G Conf Reg Season Title AND the Conf Tourney Title, the #1 ranking in the Coaches poll, the #4 in the other poll, and the #11 in the RPI, yet doesn't get a Top 16 seed and the home field advantage that goes with it.

The NCAA and the rest of he nation HATES US.


How many Gopher Men's bb teams seemed IN, and then got left OUT of the NCAA bb tourney???



We are the Rodney Dangerfield character in Caddyshack, doesn't matter what we do, they don't want us in their club.
 

KillmeNow said:
The NCAA, and possibly the rest of the nation, simply HATES US. And if they tell you that they don't, that they just don't even pay us any attention, its because they don't have to, BECAUSE THEY HATE US, and the NCAA does most of the work for them, in all my life, I've only heard of them going after one single hockey program in all of history, and it was ours. Wasn't a huge thing, but it was one of the reasons Woog was let go??? Name me one other hockey program they've ever investigated???

They HATE US because we are from the Frozen Tundra, and if we ever win anything significant, well, that would be a huge slap in the rest of the country's face. A bunch of bumpkins from the Frozen Tundra were able to beat them???

Then the big "brawl" that happened between us and OSU? It's simple, we were one of those Fing schools that pushed the Race issue, we kept bringing in the "negroes", and most did not like this, INCLUDING ALL OF THE OTHER Big Ten schools. We were suppose to "allow" only one token black onto our team. But Muss dared bring in a whole bunch of them, including one particular player the league coaches had agreed to not recruit, of course this happened before Muss was hired. So he recruited that player and several other "negroes" before anyone could tell him that wasn't "accepted" practices in the Big Ten. And the rest of the conference and nation hated us for this. And when OSU's racist coach fired up his players enough that one of them spat in one of our players faces when our player was trying to help him up off the flour, our guy lost it and retaliated by kneeing the guy in the balls as he helping him to his feet. The OSU player, years later became a born again Christian and admitted that he did in fact spit in our players face and called him a "nigger" after spitting in his face.

But who got painted as the bad guys in that whole incident??? Our Gophers did. And it was not long after this that Musselman and the program came under NCAA investigation and got nailed, all while UCLA got away with murder without even a slap on the wrist.

And our 1977 season was completely erased because of one player selling 2 of his complementary tickets.

The NCAA wouldn't give a program more than a slap on the wrist for the same thing today, but we lost an entire season, arguably our best ever!!!


Our Softball teams wins more games than any other program in the nation last year, finishes the season with BOTH the B1G Conf Reg Season Title AND the Conf Tourney Title, the #1 ranking in the Coaches poll, the #4 in the other poll, and the #11 in the RPI, yet doesn't get a Top 16 seed and the home field advantage that goes with it.

The NCAA and the rest of he nation HATES US.


How many Gopher Men's bb teams seemed IN, and then got left OUT of the NCAA bb tourney???



We are the Rodney Dangerfield character in Caddyshack, doesn't matter what we do, they don't want us in their club.
Click to expand...

Holy ludesfisk macaroni! You are killing me now.
 

KillmeNow said:
The NCAA, and possibly the rest of the nation, simply HATES US. And if they tell you that they don't, that they just don't even pay us any attention, its because they don't have to, BECAUSE THEY HATE US, and the NCAA does most of the work for them, in all my life, I've only heard of them going after one single hockey program in all of history, and it was ours. Wasn't a huge thing, but it was one of the reasons Woog was let go??? Name me one other hockey program they've ever investigated???

They HATE US because we are from the Frozen Tundra, and if we ever win anything significant, well, that would be a huge slap in the rest of the country's face. A bunch of bumpkins from the Frozen Tundra were able to beat them???

Then the big "brawl" that happened between us and OSU? It's simple, we were one of those Fing schools that pushed the Race issue, we kept bringing in the "negroes", and most did not like this, INCLUDING ALL OF THE OTHER Big Ten schools. We were suppose to "allow" only one token black onto our team. But Muss dared bring in a whole bunch of them, including one particular player the league coaches had agreed to not recruit, of course this happened before Muss was hired. So he recruited that player and several other "negroes" before anyone could tell him that wasn't "accepted" practices in the Big Ten. And the rest of the conference and nation hated us for this. And when OSU's racist coach fired up his players enough that one of them spat in one of our players faces when our player was trying to help him up off the flour, our guy lost it and retaliated by kneeing the guy in the balls as he helping him to his feet. The OSU player, years later became a born again Christian and admitted that he did in fact spit in our players face and called him a "nigger" after spitting in his face.

But who got painted as the bad guys in that whole incident??? Our Gophers did. And it was not long after this that Musselman and the program came under NCAA investigation and got nailed, all while UCLA got away with murder without even a slap on the wrist.

And our 1977 season was completely erased because of one player selling 2 of his complementary tickets.

The NCAA wouldn't give a program more than a slap on the wrist for the same thing today, but we lost an entire season, arguably our best ever!!!


Our Softball teams wins more games than any other program in the nation last year, finishes the season with BOTH the B1G Conf Reg Season Title AND the Conf Tourney Title, the #1 ranking in the Coaches poll, the #4 in the other poll, and the #11 in the RPI, yet doesn't get a Top 16 seed and the home field advantage that goes with it.

The NCAA and the rest of he nation HATES US.


How many Gopher Men's bb teams seemed IN, and then got left OUT of the NCAA bb tourney???



We are the Rodney Dangerfield character in Caddyshack, doesn't matter what we do, they don't want us in their club.
Click to expand...

I hope you locate your meds.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
I’m tired; let’s just keep doing the same old thing. It’s worked wonders. I’m a Bison fan so I’m cool with it. The Gophers get the Kyle Therets and Christian Lewis’s and the Bison get the Craig Dahl’s and Marcus Williams.
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To be fair to the Gophers, Marcus Williams couldn't get into school at the U.
 

FireDaveLee said:
To be fair to the Gophers, Marcus Williams couldn't get into school at the U.
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No disrespect but you have some really bad information. He wasn’t offered and and he most definitely could have gotten into school.


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Sportsfan24 said:
I’m tired; let’s just keep doing the same old thing. It’s worked wonders. I’m a Bison fan so I’m cool with it. The Gophers get the Kyle Therets and Christian Lewis’s and the Bison get the Craig Dahl’s and Marcus Williams.

To be clear; unlike Lewis, Kyle wasn’t a bad player. But there are Kyle’s coming out of a Mn high school every freaking year. 5’9 190 safety’s who run 4’7’s and don’t cover aren’t that hard to find. If they are from Mn they just usually become a national champion for the Bison.

One day someone will figure it out. Go Bison.

My point about El Amin was that 30-40 years ago like Jay Rundles, Harlan Hill and Ricky Suggs he would have ended up at a d2 school because everyone knew MN didn’t produce guards.

20 MN kids a year? Admitted exaggeration but we aren’t getting anywhere near the number of kids we should because NDSU is far to successful.


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I may be wrong, but I thought the gophers and others wanted Marcus Williams, but he didn't have his grades in order. You point out mediocre gophers, but the gophers have had players that were just as good or better as well. You do realize that Minnesota kids were on the roster with Lewis and Theret right? Why weren't the MN kids playing? It doesn't matter where the talent comes from.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Aside from Rick Rubio[emoji1][emoji1] I don’t Troll. There is a reason NDSU has been so successful the last 30 years. It’s because they are getting D1 Mn Talent the Gophers are ignoring while the Gophers are getting over ranked from out of state.
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NDSU does a great job of developing players. They have a great system in place that works well. That's been the biggest difference between the two programs.
 


btowngopher said:
I may be wrong, but I thought the gophers and others wanted Marcus Williams, but he didn't have his grades in order. You point out mediocre gophers, but the gophers have had players that were just as good or better as well. You do realize that Minnesota kids were on the roster with Lewis and Theret right? Why weren't the MN kids playing? It doesn't matter where the talent comes from.
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They where playing. Cretins Shady Solomon played safety having never played it before, walk on transfer Kyle Henderson started at corner and AJ Barker played wr.


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GophersInIowa said:
NDSU does a great job of developing players. They have a great system in place that works well. That's been the biggest difference between the two programs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no ZERO stars or 2 Star players have EVER gone to the U and ended up in the NFL or making All-B1G teams or anything.
 


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