If you’re Coyle, why do u keep Pitino

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KillmeNow said:
Tired? You think??? Are you frigging serious?


Wow, some of you arseholes are so frigging clueless.


NO Cashman

NO Curry

No Coffey

No Lynch

BARELY any McBreyer

Even Gaston's missed more than a handful of games


5 games in 11 days, FOUR of them road games, right out of the gate almost, after Lynch and Coffey went out.

And not against chump teams, either. Maryland, OSU & NW on the road, and arguably the #1 team in the nation, as the only home game during that 5 game stretch, Purdue.

YET... yet we had leads in 3 of those 4 games, at halftime, but basically gassed out, got tired, wore down.


How can you guys not see this???



HALF the team is either not playing or is playing injured or hobbled or in pain.
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AND... the other half are frosh, guys like Konate and Hurt or Fitz, who didn't play for 2 years because of multiple injuries.

Oh, and Mason and Murphy, both who might be playing in pain, with an injury, but they won't tell you that, and who know doubtedly are getting more attention. Murphy is probably getting double and triple teamed more than he is not.
 

bga1 said:
What did the trend line look like last year...when Pitino was BT coach of the year?
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It was looking up til they got dominated by Middle Tennessee St. He was Big Ten coach of the year because the year before he had what, the worst season in Gopher history? Now combine his trend of the last 5 years and tell me what it looks like.


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Some Day...Maybe said:
It was looking up til they got dominated by Middle Tennessee St. He was Big Ten coach of the year because the year before he had what, the worst season in Gopher history? Now combine his trend of the last 5 years and tell me what it looks like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Aww, I'm a simple minded bumpkin. I can't see the forest thru da trees, duh.
 

KillmeNow said:
Tired? You think??? Are you frigging serious?


Wow, some of you arseholes are so frigging clueless.


NO Cashman

NO Curry

No Coffey

No Lynch

BARELY any McBreyer

Even Gaston's missed more than a handful of games


5 games in 11 days, FOUR of them road games, right out of the gate almost, after Lynch and Coffey went out.

And not against chump teams, either. Maryland, OSU & NW on the road, and arguably the #1 team in the nation, as the only home game during that 5 game stretch, Purdue.

YET... yet we had leads in 3 of those 4 games, at halftime, but basically gassed out, got tired, wore down.


How can you guys not see this???



HALF the team is either not playing or is playing injured or hobbled or in pain.
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Who is Cashman?
 


KillmeNow said:
It's just a reality that some coaches are or would be or are expected to be home runs hires, immediate impact hires. Examples would be Tubby Smith at Mn bb, Herb Brooks at SCSU, Lou Holtz at Mn fb, Allister at Mn Softball, the Gophers VB coach, and those are just examples from Gopher sports, or of a Gopher elsewhere. Most of those home run hires panned out or had at least a short term immediate impact while they were here/there. SCSU even renamed their Arena after Brooks, despite his being there just one year. Holtz's impact was less noticeable because he took several of the players that would have otherwise kept playing for Minnesota with him to Notre Dame, with some of those actually being part of why ND went on to win the Natl Title.


Edit - I forgot to include the 2nd part. Other coaches ARE NOT home run hires, and their expectations are lower, and its hoped that given time and patience, they can build something and become successful. Jerry Kill was one of these hires, like Mason before him, he was known to turn programs around and until he left, he had our fb program on a steady upward trajectory, and I think we were more patient with him than for instance, Michigan was with Harbaugh, he was a home run hire and much more was expected of him and despite much greater success than we've had at Minnesota, there is talk of firing him, we'd pee our pants to have what Michigan has had under Harbaugh. J Robinson was possibly one of those hires, he didn't immediately turn the Minnesota Wrestling program around, it took him close to a decade to turn them into perennial contenders. If as many people cared about wrestling back in the early 90s like they care about cbb, Robinson may have been fired the year they got to #1 in the rankings and ended up finishing like #12 or something in the NCAAs? He suffered some serious bad luck as well as 2 of his best wrestlers got injured between the end of the season and the start of the NCAA tourney. But maybe because it was just wrestling? But he was shown patience and that patience paid off. I don't think hiring Brad Frost was a home run hire, at least it didn't look like it at the time of the hire, turns out it was, he was the frog that turned into the Prince maybe? Or maybe ANYONE could coach those gals to titles??? I don't think so. I don't think Mason was a home run hire, although some may have hoped he'd turn out to be, but he was known for turning dumpster fires into competitive programs and that is what he did, but he reached his ceiling and plateaued. A guy outside of Minnesota that I can think of is Gary Pinkel at Missouri, he was given lots of time and patience to build that program up and until all the trouble they had with racism that one season, they were on a steady upward progression. Had it taken that long for Saban to turn Bama into a decent team, he would have gotten fired in 1/5th the time it took for Pinkel to get let go.

And we all know our drunken letch of an AD couldn't find a home run hire, or didn't want the one he could have gotten in Flip, so he went with one whose success, if he had it, he could take tons of credit for.


So we all knew he wasn't a home run hire, from the start. Not sure why this is not understood and acknowledged???

Home run hires have and ALWAYS WILL HAVE, higher expectations of them, at least in their first 2-3 seasons.



Tubby Smith, in comparison to the very FAIR high expectations of his impact here, was basically a bust. Did he put together a good team or two in his time here? Sure, I sure in the frigging heck hope so??? And maybe he also suffered some bad luck, too, that may have lessened the end results that particular season. Sure. But it ended up being pretty apparent that he was let go from UK for good reason.

I've mentioned here before, as have others, that his recruiting was trending downward, and THAT was why he was rightfully let go. And that is definitely true, he was basically putting less and less energy and time into recruiting out of state players. He was basically mailing it in.

But, the more I think about it, that was NOT the only issue I had with Tubby. Some of his coaching decisions were unbelievably BAFFLING. Wasn't it Tubby that would do some sort of hockey line change kind of thing? Taking out whole lineups at the same time or close to it, and it always seemed that he did this when we had momentum and far more often than not, it seemed to allow the other team to stop our momentum and to build their own and to make comebacks. And maybe he felt that once he put the lineup/starters back into the game, they could stop the other teams comeback, and that may have happened a few times, as I guess it should, but I know that I am not the only person who noticed it, because it was other fans complaining about it that helped me to recognize it and to watch for it in future games.

So for his being a supposed future Hall of Famer and his having led a team to a Natl Championship and having led several different teams to the NCAA tourney, and maybe even deep into the tourney, he just DID NOT DELIVER on the promise, the potential, the hope, that most of us seemed to have or see in him when he first got hired.

And the year he had all that bad luck??? I remember him being, for the most part, forgiven for that, and not blamed for the team's BARELY getting into the tourney that year, needing to make a run to the Conf Tourney Title game just to get an #11 seed in the tourney. Were their exceptions to that? Sure, there were Tubby haters who ragged on him and blamed him for the bad luck, just like Pitino haters blame him for this year's bad luck or at least his not being able to overcome it. Yet we still have the B1G tourney to redeem this season, so you never know? But Tubby gets credit for taking that team to the NCAA tourney, despite their BARELY getting in and then not coming close to winning their 1st round game.

And yes, at the time I wanted to believe our win over UCLA was a great win and something to be proud of, and maybe their missing JUST ONE PLAYER shouldn't detract from our beating them, but at the same time there are plenty of Gopher fans that feel our missing JUST ONE PLAYER was why we lost to Michigan and then MTSU last year. So is it fair or right or intelligent to point to our missing player when we lose and then not allow our opposition to do the same???

Is it significant that our ONLY WIN in NCAA tournament play since 1990, came while the other team was down a player???


If I was NOT a Gopher fan, I'd be all over that, and would in fact make a point of pointing that out.

UMn is one of the worst ranked cbb programs in modern college basketball history, and they'd be MUCH WORSE if not for Clem's first crew.

What was Clem's 4 year B1G conf record???

What was Clem's first 3 year conf record??? OMG, that would almost make Pitino's look incredibly good!!!!!


Yet what did those TWO HORRIBLE teams, the 1987 and 1988 teams have, other than possibly the worst 2 year conf record in ALL OF UMN BB HISTORY??????????????



HOPE.


Hope for a much brighter future. And 1989 and 1990 delivered exactly that.


Oh, and it wasn't incredibly amazing conf win/loss records in 89 and 90 that made those years special.

And I point that out because of how OBSESSED some of you seem to be with this whole 5 year conf record BS.



Monson never made me feel true hope like I felt Clem gave us.

Tubby, only made me feel that kind of hope for a year or two, then he felt like just a slight improvement over Monson.

Pitino, in year 3, made me feel like I was experiencing what I had in 1988 again. Young team struggling, mightily, but showing signs of a promising future.

Pitino in year 4, made me feel like I was experiencing what I had in 1989 again. Had Springs not gone down, I could have easily seen them making the Sweet 16.

Pitino in year 5, BEFORE the Curry injury, I felt we were going to have a year similar to 1990, except playing in a weaker B1G than the 1990 version, I thought we'd finish Top 3 in Conf for sure, unlike the 1990 team that finished in 5th I believe? Or was that the 89 team?


But then the ceiling started collapsing in on this year's squad and well, I just don't see how that can be blamed on Pitino directly. Maybe in some degree indirectly, seeing as he did bring in Gaston and Bakary and under the circumstances some of his moves didn't work out too well, but its not as if coaches should know that 3 and a half players are not going to be available to them each year. Who does that? Who passes on bringing in a transfer that has to sit a year assuming 3 and a half players are going to become unavailable to play??? Why aren't all of you geniuses who think its so easy to predict such things out there in the world making big money coaching college basketball???

lol

Maybe because you are not actually cbb coaching geniuses, but in reality are just a bunch of armchair QBs who think WAY TOO highly of their own opinions?
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I long for the days of complaining about barely making the tourney
 

bizzle22 said:
I long for the days of complaining about barely making the tourney
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+1, and claiming that our Tournament wins don't mean anything because they're against teams who are "horse manure". Wouldn't it be nice to have the opportunity to make the Tournament and play against another "horse manure" team?
 

dpodoll68 said:
+1, and claiming that our Tournament wins don't mean anything because they're against teams who are "horse manure". Wouldn't it be nice to have the opportunity to make the Tournament and play against another "horse manure" team?
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Amen to that.

Where this program is right now, I'd die (figuratively speaking) for a trip to Dayton and the First Four next season.
 

Really think the disagreements come from the simple concept of each person has their own view and their own expectations. If we start with the idea that there are 4 different takes but that each person is equal in the ability to express their point then perhaps it does not need to be personal. One group thinks Pitino is already a great coach. One group thinks he is a good coach, another thinks he is has a chance to prove he is good and finally the last group thinks he is flat out a awful coach. I believe based on what i have seen that he is not awful but that he has to do more to earn being good. I rank him 8th or 9th in the conference.
 



builtbadgers said:
Really think the disagreements come from the simple concept of each person has their own view and their own expectations. If we start with the idea that there are 4 different takes but that each person is equal in the ability to express their point then perhaps it does not need to be personal. One group thinks Pitino is already a great coach. One group thinks he is a good coach, another thinks he is has a chance to prove he is good and finally the last group thinks he is flat out a awful coach. I believe based on what i have seen that he is not awful but that he has to do more to earn being good. I rank him 8th or 9th in the conference.
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That makes 5 takes, my friend.
 


bizzle22 said:
What does the trend line look like right now?
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Defensive ranking numbers by season; 78,90,163,22, 129 Which direction is that trending ? Clue is the 78 is the first year, then it goes up to 90, then the unbearable 163, very good 22 last year and this year a horrific 129. That is not trending to the good.
 

bizzle22 said:
What does the trend line look like right now?
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What do the players look like? Was he expecting that Konate, Gaston, Harris and Hurt would be logging the minutes they did? Was he expecting that McBrayer and Coffey would be playing injured and not practicing? What would the trend look like if we had the players he expected to have? I don't think Pitino is a great defensive coach and I hope he improves this- but this idea of looking at a trend line and making something out of this year under these conditions is not a good one.

I'd venture a guess that if all the players we planned on were playing right now we would not be having a silly trend line discussion like this one.
 



Pitino gets one more year.
Losing 3 of Your top 6 guys would hurt any team. Plus Mcbrayer playing one leg.
My biggest issue in all this is the offensive end. Needs a new assistant coaches to make adjustments. There are no sets when u need a play. I know this how he recruits and tell them u have free offensive freedom.
 

bga1 said:
What do the players look like? Was he expecting that Konate, Gaston, Harris and Hurt would be logging the minutes they did? Was he expecting that McBrayer and Coffey would be playing injured and not practicing? What would the trend look like if we had the players he expected to have? I don't think Pitino is a great defensive coach and I hope he improves this- but this idea of looking at a trend line and making something out of this year under these conditions is not a good one.

I'd venture a guess that if all the players we planned on were playing right now we would not be having a silly trend line discussion like this one.
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The excuses have been discussed plenty. Anyone on GH is well aware of the players who are injured and whatnot. The problem is that we are now in year 5 and there is only one outlier. And that outlier was the good year.

As I've said before and will state again, I'm not advocating for firing him right now. I do think those who support Pitino need to take a look at what is actually happening on the court. No more excuses and talk of recruiting rankings, let's talk about actual basketball games.
 

dpodoll68 said:
+1, and claiming that our Tournament wins don't mean anything because they're against teams who are "horse manure". Wouldn't it be nice to have the opportunity to make the Tournament and play against another "horse manure" team?
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Are we talking football, basketball or both? [emoji41]
 

builtbadgers said:
Defensive ranking numbers by season; 78,90,163,22, 129 Which direction is that trending ? Clue is the 78 is the first year, then it goes up to 90, then the unbearable 163, very good 22 last year and this year a horrific 129. That is not trending to the good.
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This trend has to do with personnel and human will power. We have a team that is depleted and didn't/doesn’t exhibit a will to play suffocating defense. Is that due to Pitino's coaching philosophy or due to some other factor?
 

This "he gets one more year" talk will surely due wonders in recruiting Sims etc.
 

MennoSota said:
This trend has to do with personnel and human will power. We have a team that is depleted and didn't/doesn’t exhibit a will to play suffocating defense. Is that due to Pitino's coaching philosophy or due to some other factor?
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I would be a fool to think that injuries have not played a huge factor. However my initial point was that there was not a culture or identity from the first day and the first year of locking people down. All the programs that were built with a sustainable success were built with a defensive identity with the simple reason being that when your short on high end talent or injured that all your guys can play defense. Few can replace scorers or in the case of just a bad shooting night you can survive with defense. Blue bloods will always recruit better players, hell everyone wants better players but UW, Butler, Xavier, Whichita St., and now UVA got ultra competitive and found historical levels of success in their programs. We should never be outside the top 30 in defense. Most of the best efficiency teams rock a strong number in both offense and defense. There is a extraordinary connection to those top Kenpom numbers and winning year after year. It is great to score but no less important to stop teams from scoring.
 

howeda7 said:
This "he gets one more year" talk will surely due wonders in recruiting Sims etc.
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I am extremely curious to see who Pitino lands this upcoming fall for the 2019 class. Pitino optimists keep pointing to his improved recruiting as a reason to be encouraged. But having a terrible season 2 years out of 3 could start to hinder recruiting no matter the reasons for it.
 

GibsonSG said:
I am extremely curious to see who Pitino lands this upcoming fall for the 2019 class. Pitino optimists keep pointing to his improved recruiting as a reason to be encouraged. But having a terrible season 2 years out of 3 could start to hinder recruiting no matter the reasons for it.
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Monson and Smith: three 5-star recruits in 14 years. Pitino playing serious catchup in that category.
 

howeda7 said:
This "he gets one more year" talk will surely due wonders in recruiting Sims etc.
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I guess everyone should always fire the coach immediately when a dozen or so message board geniuses start claiming he is on the hot seat
 

Some guy said:
I guess everyone should always fire the coach immediately when a dozen or so message board geniuses start claiming he is on the hot seat
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No. But it's the consequence of keeping a coach on the hot seat. One reason it's better to make a move a year too early than a year too late.
 

howeda7 said:
No. But it's the consequence of keeping a coach on the hot seat. One reason it's better to make a move a year too early than a year too late.
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True but it only works if you know that who you hire is a upgrade. I think it is best to bring him back.
 


Ewert86PC said:
And not bring in Eric Musselman?

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Can the U Still get Muss. ? I think it is best if Richard gets next year. This team is not done writing its story. The Gophers will be trouble in the Big10 tourney and although that does not wash away the stench of this season it can set the tone for next year.
 

Could we even get Muss??? Several years ago we thought we could get Shaka Smart. OMG, the fans were all abuzz about the almighty greatest that has ever been, Shaka Smart, lol. I dared to say we should bring in Flip Saunders, I got laughed at and ridiculed. OMG, Shaka was SO MUCH better.

Did we get Shaka, btw?

No, we didn't, and we didn't want Flip, supposedly. So we settled for some young kid, named Pitino.




Now you all hate him??? Little sh1t finally brought hope to this program, FINALLY.


He did it the hard way, worked for it. Made mistakes to start, brought in some less than adequate guys, who then wouldn't leave, but he also brought in some incredible talent.

And he's developed ALL of the talent that has come into the program, at least to some degree.

I seriously don't get all of the negativity???







Oh, btw, how is good ole Shaka Smart doing these days? Must be winning Natl Titles by now, right???
 

KillmeNow said:
Could we even get Muss??? Several years ago we thought we could get Shaka Smart. OMG, the fans were all abuzz about the almighty greatest that has ever been, Shaka Smart, lol. I dared to say we should bring in Flip Saunders, I got laughed at and ridiculed. OMG, Shaka was SO MUCH better.

Did we get Shaka, btw?

No, we didn't, and we didn't want Flip, supposedly. So we settled for some young kid, named Pitino.




Now you all hate him??? Little sh1t finally brought hope to this program, FINALLY.


He did it the hard way, worked for it. Made mistakes to start, brought in some less than adequate guys, who then wouldn't leave, but he also brought in some incredible talent.

And he's developed ALL of the talent that has come into the program, at least to some degree.

I seriously don't get all of the negativity???







Oh, btw, how is good ole Shaka Smart doing these days? Must be winning Natl Titles by now, right???
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Not a hater but there is a ocean of room between winning titles and where Richard is at. What incredible talent are you talking about ? I would say he has recruited several good players and a few really good players. My goodness if he goes back to back 12-6 records you would want a statue. There is middle ground. Damn what if Richard does not win a national title or even a conference title would you call that a failure ! You have scoffed at coaches who have won ACC titles but think RICHARD is a great coach ! That incites some people. Most reasonable people will tip their hat for what he has done well but aknowledge what he has done poorly. You trashed a coach who has not won a national title yet but has done far better than we have ever had here under anyone and especially Pitino. Just try for some reasonable analysis instead of blind support.
 

KillmeNow said:
Could we even get Muss??? Several years ago we thought we could get Shaka Smart. OMG, the fans were all abuzz about the almighty greatest that has ever been, Shaka Smart, lol. I dared to say we should bring in Flip Saunders, I got laughed at and ridiculed. OMG, Shaka was SO MUCH better.

Did we get Shaka, btw?

No, we didn't, and we didn't want Flip, supposedly. So we settled for some young kid, named Pitino.




Now you all hate him??? Little sh1t finally brought hope to this program, FINALLY.


He did it the hard way, worked for it. Made mistakes to start, brought in some less than adequate guys, who then wouldn't leave, but he also brought in some incredible talent.

And he's developed ALL of the talent that has come into the program, at least to some degree.

I seriously don't get all of the negativity???







Oh, btw, how is good ole Shaka Smart doing these days? Must be winning Natl Titles by now, right???
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Wow. Is this part of your job responsibilities at the U? To bag on basketball fans?

This is a program that people have tolerated getting the physical equivalent of punched and elbowed annually. When we start to get kicked it the nuts regularly instead then we are labeled as negative when we speak up?

I get it we should just shut up and take what's coming to us. You asked if there was a suitable candidate and when one is brought up: discounted and tossed aside under the assumption we are not good enough to get him.

We have reached the point where staying the course has more negatives than benefits. We would be foolish not to consider making a change.

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F this clown. I had this guys back every step of the way. Even after everyone of my friends he is terrible. The bull**** he pulled tonight for the 2nd time this year,the kids battling back and then he gets the dumbest T ever. F Him Clown
 

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