How did it get this bad at Illinois?

fmlizard

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Kinda OT, but holy buckets are things ever grim at Illinois right now. They haven't won a single game against a B1G opponent in football, men's basketball, or women's basketball in almost a full year. 329 days as of this posting.

It's worse than Rutgers right now at a school that may have more natural advantages (population, limited in-state competition, lots of in-state talent, etc) than any school in the conference except perhaps Ohio State.
 

Kinda OT, but holy buckets are things ever grim at Illinois right now. They haven't won a single game against a B1G opponent in football, men's basketball, or women's basketball in almost a full calendar year. 329 days as of this posting.

It's worse than Rutgers right now at a school that may have more natural advantages (population, limited in-state competition, lots of in-state talent, etc) than any school in the conference except perhaps Ohio State.

I was thinking about this just the other day when I saw this stat (which is pretty unbelievable) and my immediate thought is that the early returns on Josh Whitman are not looking good. In two years he went from AD at LaCrosse to AD in the Big Ten - and he's still not even 40. It appears that he's finding things aren't so easy when you're not in the WIAC. He can't escape blame from this either, because he hired both Smith and Underwood. I know nothing about the women's basketball piece, so I can't comment on that. Of course he shouldn't be fired this early, but it's going to get dangerous for him quickly if they don't show a pulse in the two major men's sports between now and the end of the 2018-19 school year.
 

I can't ever remember seeing Illinois at the bottom of the men's basketball standings. I can't speak to every single year, but they've been mediocre at worst my entire life. Football...meh. It's not like they've been near the top for a long time and are suddenly bad. Yes, I know they've won the conference more recently than the Gophers. They are, typically, near the bottom of the standings, though.
 

This year, Whitman hired Nancy Fahey a very successful DIII women's basketball coach at Washington University. They were colleagues at Washington University. It hasn't worked out so far; but the women's basketball program similar to football was a mess, legal and otherwise, before Whitman got to Champaign. A couple of years ago, the Chancellor's resigned under pressure. Not to mention AD, coaching changes and court cases.

As with Lovie Smith, Whitman's hirings seem spur of the moment. Anyway, Illinois is constantly turning the pages always hoping for a new story.
 

http://herald-review.com/sports/ill...cle_e5ff8e91-b0d5-54fb-9b38-c32ad44fe740.html

Here's the background in nifty summary form of the mire from which the Illini are attempting to escape (Law and Bollant were WBB head coaches:

I interpret that to mean that it’s easier for Cvijanovic to imagine a positive outcome now that Beckman has lost his job, that Thomas was fired, too, and that AD Josh Whitman and head coach Lovie Smith are now in charge of the athletic department and football program.

We’ve seen seven major head coaches (Ron Zook, Tim Beckman, Bill Cubit, Bruce Weber, John Groce, Jolette Law and Matt Bollant) fired since Thomas arrived from the University of Cincinnati in 2011. We’ve seen Thomas fired, too.

The public relations damage, the unsettling lack of continuity, the jarring disruption of recruiting and the negative impact on ticket sales have all taken a toll.

Not to mention the money Illinois has paid during this tumultuous time, which in itself is painful to consider.

The payout for Zook’s departure was $2.6 million. He is now special teams coordinator for the Green Bay Packers.

The buyout owed to Weber was $3.9 million. He’s now head coach at Kansas State.

Law received $620,000. She’s an assistant coach at the University of Tennessee.

The payout for Beckman was $250,000. He has not returned to coaching.

Thomas received $2.5 million. He was recently hired as AD at Cleveland State.

The payout for Cubit was $1.3 million. He is enjoying life in Florida with his wife, Nancy, but hasn’t ruled out a return to coaching.

Groce’s buyout was $1.7 million. He is the new head coach at Akron.

Bollant received $450,000 and was hired to run the women’s basketball program at Eastern Illinois.

And then there was a $375,000 settlement paid to seven women’s basketball players who claimed mistreatment, mostly due to the behavior of a former assistant coach who also was fired.

That’s almost $13.7 million paid to address these issues.

It would be nice to say the Cvijanovic settlement closes the book on this dark era. But two matters are yet to be resolved.

Soccer player Casey Conine sued the university because of what she claimed to be mistreatment of a concussion.

And football player Tony Durkin made accusations similar to what Cvijanovic claimed. He said he was forced to return to action too early following a shoulder injury. Surgery followed and he said he faces a lifetime of painful physical consequences.

The university has shown no inclination to settle either matter. They believe their own medical documentation provides evidence contrary to the accusations.

Part of Whitman’s job, since taking over the athletic department in February of 2016, is to move past these matters and bring a new era of stability to the program.

That’s why it’s imperative that he has made the right hires this time. Having strong leaders who treat players with respect and win games in the process costs a lot. Elite coaches aren’t cheap.

 


That part of Illinois is more isolated than many parts of Minnesota. It is in the middle of miles of cornfields and Champaign is not a great college town. Great school academically but for whatever reason they have fallen off the map. Lots of upgrades to the football facilities have been canceled.

Go Gophers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 



Lovie Smith is the gift that just keeps on giving. Arguably one of the most incompetent and clueless coaches ever to walk the sidelines, college or pro. If I recall correctly, the whiff of success he DID have while he was at the Bears was because he was at least smart enough to hire 3 former NFL head coaches to his staff to actually COACH.

May he stay at Illinois for at least another decade.
 



And of course they ended the streak with a MBB win over Indiana last night. Good for them.

Watch them go on an unexpected tear now. With anyone but the Gophers when I call a team hopeless they often immediately right the ship. I once proclaimed to my frat at the U in 2001 that after Drew Bledsoe got hurt the Patriots would go 0-16 with an 0-2 start and some barely starter at Michigan named Brady taking over.
 

Lovie Smith is the gift that just keeps on giving. Arguably one of the most incompetent and clueless coaches ever to walk the sidelines, college or pro. If I recall correctly, the whiff of success he DID have while he was at the Bears was because he was at least smart enough to hire 3 former NFL head coaches to his staff to actually COACH.

May he stay at Illinois for at least another decade.

Lovie was a terrible hire from the get go. These aging former NFL hires almost NEVER work out.

Kinda funny, since a few posters on here were proclaiming Lovie as a "home run" hire a couple years back :confused:
 

Of all the programs in the B1G to cast aspersions related to overall ineptitude and bad hires, it sounds most ridiculous coming from Gopher fans.

But, hey, at least we have a coach that talks about winning championships, right?
 

Lovie was a terrible hire from the get go. These aging former NFL hires almost NEVER work out.

Kinda funny, since a few posters on here were proclaiming Lovie as a "home run" hire a couple years back :confused:

Lovie said they'll be good in 2021. Give him time.
 



Of all the programs in the B1G to cast aspersions related to overall ineptitude and bad hires, it sounds most ridiculous coming from Gopher fans.

But, hey, at least we have a coach that talks about winning championships, right?

Their football team went to a Rose Bowl recently. Their basketball team went to the tournament 25 times between 1981 and 2013. Both programs are horrible right now. They play in the same conference as the Gophers. I don't see the problem with talking about it.
 

Yeah they've tumbled quite a bit over the last decade. Had that high in 07 with footballthen a few OK seasons with a few bowls. Weber did fairly well all things considered for the bball program but it started sliding under Groce.

I think the basketball team can still turn around in the near future, their coach seems to have good history. Football wise, though, they're in a rut. I thought maybe Lovie could recruit and build up a solid defense, at least to where they'd be able to be competitive, but it hasn't happened.
 

Now I see the Offensive Analyst was hired away by Campbell at Iowa State and the DL coach is headed to the NFL and the Colts.
 

Lovie Smith is the gift that just keeps on giving. Arguably one of the most incompetent and clueless coaches ever to walk the sidelines, college or pro. If I recall correctly, the whiff of success he DID have while he was at the Bears was because he was at least smart enough to hire 3 former NFL head coaches to his staff to actually COACH.

May he stay at Illinois for at least another decade.

That’s some seriously undeserved harsh criticism for one of the NFL’s more successful head coaches. Did any of the former head coaches get there team to to the Super Bowl? Real question because I don’t know.


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That’s some seriously undeserved harsh criticism for one of the NFL’s more successful head coaches. Did any of the former head coaches get there team to to the Super Bowl? Real question because I don’t know.


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His NFL record is 89-87. Does that make Him one of the more successful NFL head coaches?

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His NFL record is 89-87. Does that make Him one of the more successful NFL head coaches?

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Along with 2 NFC championship appearances and 1 Superb Bowl appearance? Absolutely.


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Along with 2 NFC championship appearances and 1 Superb Bowl appearance? Absolutely.


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I think it's highly respectable but not ready to put him in the upper echelon.

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I think it's highly respectable but not ready to put him in the upper echelon.

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Agreed. Upper echelon? No, but he certainly would be considered to have had a successful NFL head coaching career.


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Lovie Smith is the gift that just keeps on giving. Arguably one of the most incompetent and clueless coaches ever to walk the sidelines, college or pro. If I recall correctly, the whiff of success he DID have while he was at the Bears was because he was at least smart enough to hire 3 former NFL head coaches to his staff to actually COACH.

May he stay at Illinois for at least another decade.

This is a massive exaggeration.
 

Along with 2 NFC championship appearances and 1 Superb Bowl appearance? Absolutely.


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Yeah...9 years in Chicago on 2 seasons under .500

His 8-24 record in Tampa (which was a disaster) really clouds his overall record.

With that said, I thought (and still think) it was a bad hire for Illinois. He hadn't walked college sidelines sine 1995.
 

Yeah...9 years in Chicago on 2 seasons under .500

His 8-24 record in Tampa (which was a disaster) really clouds his overall record.

With that said, I thought (and still think) it was a bad hire for Illinois. He hadn't walked college sidelines sine 1995.

I can’t argue against the latter. To date they (Illinois) have been a train wreck under his leadership.


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People act like that ‘07 rose bowl season was totally legit. Illinois had absolutely no business playing in that game.

The conference forced the issue, hoping to resuscitate one of its dead members. But IL was a 9-win team, and finished THIRD place in the Big Ten. They were far from a complete team. They just had two huge stars responsible for most of their wins: Juice Williams and Rashard Mendenhall.

It was a good season for Illinois. But frankly, I think the 2003 Gophers were much better than the 2007 Illini. I may even put the 2014* Gophers ahead of them.

Predictably, IL got crushed in a Rose Bowl game that the conference placed them in that they did not deserve. And the loss embarrassed the Big Ten at a time when it was struggling to convince the public that it was as competitive as the other top conferences.
 



Clearly just an oversight that he’s at a place like Illinois right now then, eh?

Not at all; if he were white he would still be a head coach in the NFL. Anything else you would like to know?


“On Sunday, the Detroit Lions defeated the Green Bay Packers for their ninth win, leaving them just shy of the playoffs but ensuring they finished the season with a winning record. In addition, the victory was the 36th in the four-year tenure of head coach Jim Caldwell, lifting his winning percentage with the Lions (0.562) above the 0.558 mark of Joe Schmidt, who coached the team from 1967 to 1972, and giving him a win-loss record better than that of every head coach in Detroit since Buddy Parker left the team in 1956 (i.e., across the last 60 years!).

Despite this record, though, Detroit fired Caldwell on Monday.

The Lions were not the only NFL team to see their coach depart that day, but they were the only one with a winning record to fire their coach. That might lead one to ask: How often do NFL teams with winning records fire their coach?

The NFL has played a 16-game schedule since 1978. Since that time, 538 teams have finished with a winning record. Using data from Pro-Football-Reference and news stories detailing why coaches left specific jobs, I was able to ascertain that, since 1978, 16 winning teams (or about 3%) fired their head coach.

Half of these 16 coaches led teams that had winning records of 9-7 (or slightly worse) — 6% of the 145 total teams with such a record since 1978.

Or to put it another way, in 94% of cases where a team was like the 2017 Lions, the team brought back its head coach.

When we look at the 16 coaches who were fired from winning teams, though, something immediately jumps out. Four of these coaches — Art Shell, Tony Dungy, Lovie Smith and now Caldwell — were black.

In the history of the NFL, there have only been 17 black head coaches who have coached at least one entire season (minimum 16 games) with a team. But four of these — or 23.5% — were fired from winning teams.

Since 1978, there have been 174 white head coaches who led a team for at least 16 games. Of these, only 12 — or 6.9% — were fired from a winning team. So black head coaches appear much more likely — relative to white head coaches — to be fired coming off a winning season.

In 2003, the NFL implemented the Rooney Rule, which requires that NFL teams interview minority coaches for head coaching positions. But the history of the rule tends to be forgotten: The league put this rule in effect after Tony Dungy and Denny Green — two successful black coaches — were fired.

We can now see in the data that there is some evidence that when it comes to diversity in the NFL coaching ranks, hiring is not the only issue. For black coaches, being successful doesn’t seem like it is enough.

It is immensely rare for a coach of a winning team to be fired. Unless that coach is black.

The NFL does not have anything like the Rooney Rule when it comes to firing coaches, and it is not clear how such a rule could even be created. But research by Devin Pope, Joseph Price and Justin Wolfers suggests that being aware that a bias might exists can help eliminate a bias.

Their research focused on how NBA referees called personal fouls. Earlier research by Price and Wolfers indicated that there was a racial bias in how referees made these calls. But after that research was publicized, the pattern observed earlier with respect to race vanished in the data. This suggests that if decision makers are aware that a bias exists, it can then be eliminated.

We should stress that the data set used to examine referee bias was quite large. In contrast, the number of head coaching positions means that this data set may never be large enough to establish a clear evidence of racial bias.

In other words, the data clearly indicates that black head coaches are much more likely to be fired with a winning record. But what is not clear is whether in any specific instance racial bias was why that happened.

What we might be more certain about is what happens after any coach with a winning record is fired.

In defending this particular move, Detroit general manager Bob Quinn said that he expects the Lions to contend with the top teams in the NFL and that Caldwell’s Lions have not done this. So will this move likely change the ability of the Lions to contend?

Unfortunately, the history of teams that fire winning head coaches doesn’t suggest that. Of the 15 teams that previously fired a winning head coach, 10 had a worse win-loss record the next season, and four managed to post the same record. That means only one team — the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2002 — actually got better the next season.

The Buccaneers are also the only team to have tried this move twice. After firing Dungy in 2002, the team acquired Jon Gruden from the Oakland Raiders. Gruden stayed with the Buccaneers until 2008. That season, the Buccaneers went 9-7 again, and the team once again fired the head coach. And as in every other instance, the team failed to get better.

Quinn said he spent many hours thinking about this decision. Perhaps some of those hours should have been spent looking at what happened next when other teams followed a similar path. It is incredibly rare for teams to get better when they fire a winning coach. Perhaps if Quinn had seen this research, well … maybe his decision would have been different.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidb...ore-likely-to-be-fired-with-a-winning-record/
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