Lynch has appealed suspension, but potentially long process may end his Gopher career

Donate To GopherHole
CurveballJesus said:
In my experience around him, Ryan is a very good attorney. I think he suffered a bit from Coyle-itis during the press conference yesterday and probably should have waited a few days to review all of the material before holding a public forum. He did bring up something that could be interesting however. He alluded to possible collusion between the accusers early in his press conference (side note, when did Chad Graff from the PP become an editorialist? His reporting on the press conference is really hostile). One thing that the accusers have in common is Abby Honold, who from all appearances is the spokesperson for both of the accusers. I don't believe the Title IX process has any subpoena power, but I wonder if Ryan would seek communications between Abby and the accusers? That would probably be the only way to show possible collusion (especially if the initial accuser, where Reggie was cleared is involved) or at least raise the issue to a more provable level. However I seriously doubt that Ms. Honold would turn over any communications (as is her right without a subpoena and very much the smart thing to do) for this investigation.
Click to expand...

Bingo.

Abby Honold, a campus activist with close ties to an assault victims rights/assistance organization, repeatedly stated she knows both victims, and that she told Coyle about the alleged “multiple victims” and he did nothing. After the press conference she tweeted that she could personally vouch that the two victims didn’t talk and don’t know EACH OTHER (my emphasis) and therefore “couldn’t have colluded.”

I think it’s fair to guess what may have happened to get these two complaints filed at nearly the same time, and while that’s not proof of innocence or guilt, it’s certainly relevant.
 

Cruze said:
You are exactly right and that is why Lynch is going to be given a hearing before the Campus Committee on Student Behavior (CCSB). Pacyga will be representing Lynch in that hearing and he will be able to challenge all of the evidence in the EOAA Reprt. Although the EOAA investigated and cleared Lynch once before this time they determined it is more likely than not that the alleged victim is telling the truth and Reggie is lying. None of us have read the report so we don't know the reasoning the EOAA used to make their determination. However, it should go without saying, as Reggie's attorney Pacyga's characterization of the EOAA Report cannot be relied upon as an unbiased assessment of the EOAA"s evidence and rationale for their recommendation.

The U is just following their long established student disciplinary procedures which have been determined to be as fair and balanced as any student code of conduct procedures in the country. After all, they did work for the U football players who won their appeals last year. Colleges and universities have used code of conduct procedures to govern student behavior since the founding of the country. That is not likely to change any time soon. Until it does that is all they have to help them maintain order and safety on their campuses

The Student Behavior Committee is the central judiciary body for the Twin Cities Campus in all cases involving violations of the University's Student Conduct Code by individual students and as the primary judiciary body for the Twin Cities Campus in all cases involving violations of University rules and policies by student organizations under the jurisdiction of the Student Activities Office.

The Student Behavior Committee shall be composed of:

at least 12 faculty/academic professional members,
at least 10 students, and
ex officio representation as specified by vote of the Twin Cities Delegation.

Members shall be appointed by the Committee on Committees. The chair of the committee shall be a tenured faculty member.

Duties and Responsibilities

a. To serve as the central judiciary body for the Twin Cities Campus in all cases involving violations of the University's Student Conduct Code by individual students.

b. To serve as the primary judiciary body for the Twin Cities Campus in all cases involving violations of University rules and policies by student organizations under the jurisdiction of the Student Activities Office.

c. To hold hearings in accordance with procedures specified in the University's Student Conduct Code and procedures adopted by the committee and approved by the Student Affairs Committee.

d. To recommend to the Senate Consultative Committee such actions or policies as it deems appropriate.

http://usenate.umn.edu/committees/student-behavior-committee-ccsb
Click to expand...

None of this gives me a lot of confidence in the EOAA. The group that I was envisioning being responsible for meting out justice just got alot worse. I was thinking administration attorneys, former judges, volunteer legal experts, unbiased HR experts but this appears to be some students and some tenured faculty, both probably predisposed to to be sympathetic to the #metoo movement and less focused on any presumption of innocence. I get what Pacyga is saying now, Lynch should be scared. Of course if he is guilty of these things then it is well deserved.

I'll say it again - the accusers and the decision makers all get to hide behind a veil of secrecy while publicly destroying people. This is a public institution, paid for legislatively, and owned by Minnesotans. Just make it transparent.
 

CPTMidnight said:
I'll say it again - the accusers and the decision makers all get to hide behind a veil of secrecy while publicly destroying people. This is a public institution, paid for legislatively, and owned by Minnesotans. Just make it transparent.
Click to expand...

Speaking of this - I would never in a million years follow this woman on Twitter, but someone retweeted one of her posts into my timeline:

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

In other words, she gets to destroy Lynch's reputation (anonymously, of course) while it's a travesty for people to even TALK about the incident for which she wants Lynch to be punished. #Triggered
 

When I first heard this story break and I saw how active Abby was the night it broke, including her statements about warning Coyle, I thought there was a chance that she could be playing a part in these complaints being filed.
I read about her story and I feel both terrible about what happened to her and proud that she was able to bring her assaulter to justice. She has become an activist in an area that needs one.
I do hope the local media explores this part of the story though as my hunch is that she was not happy or satisfied with her Coyle meeting and these two complaints were encouraged to be filed shortly after that meeting. Maybe her goal was to have Coyle hear her in person complaint about Reggie and have him dismissed in October, and when that didn’t happen, then plan b.
I don’t want to victim blame at all, but I think this has to be part of this story if she had a beef with the athletic department.
 

CPTMidnight said:
None of this gives me a lot of confidence in the EOAA. The group that I was envisioning being responsible for meting out justice just got alot worse. I was thinking administration attorneys, former judges, volunteer legal experts, unbiased HR experts but this appears to be some students and some tenured faculty, both probably predisposed to to be sympathetic to the #metoo movement and less focused on any presumption of innocence. I get what Pacyga is saying now, Lynch should be scared. Of course if he is guilty of these things then it is well deserved.

I'll say it again - the accusers and the decision makers all get to hide behind a veil of secrecy while publicly destroying people. This is a public institution, paid for legislatively, and owned by Minnesotans. Just make it transparent.
Click to expand...

All it will take to make the U's student disciplinary process transparent is for politicians to abolish the laws that try (but often fail) to protect the personal privacy of citizens (including college students). Don't hold your breath. To say the criminal and civil legal systems (and student codes of conduct) in America are imperfect are a huge understatement. What did you think about Al Franken and Garrison Keillor getting tried and convicted in the news media without the opportunity to defend behavior that happened many years ago? Many will disagree but in my opinion it was totally unfair. However, I also understand it is the world we now live in. Things have changed.

Unfortunately, Reggie Lynch is a celebrity in Minnesota and it was all but impossible to keep his name out of the news media. Not that the U didn't try. We would have never heard of this matter if it involved a non-athlete at the U. But at least Reggie has the opportunity to hire an attorney to defend himself. Not everyone gets that opportunity in America. I don't feel sorry for Reggie. The large majority of males go through life without ever being accused of sexual abuse or harassment. It isn't difficult to have sex with a woman without her reporting it to the police or EOAA. It has now happened to Reggie three times. He did all this to himself.
 


Cruze said:
You are exactly right and that is why Lynch is going to be given a hearing before the Campus Committee on Student Behavior (CCSB). Pacyga will be representing Lynch in that hearing and he will be able to challenge all of the evidence in the EOAA Reprt. Although the EOAA investigated and cleared Lynch once before this time they determined it is more likely than not that the alleged victim is telling the truth and Reggie is lying. None of us have read the report so we don't know the reasoning the EOAA used to make their determination. However, it should go without saying, as Reggie's attorney Pacyga's characterization of the EOAA Report cannot be relied upon as an unbiased assessment of the EOAA"s evidence and rationale for their recommendation.

The U is just following their long established student disciplinary procedures which have been determined to be as fair and balanced as any student code of conduct procedures in the country. After all, they did work for the U football players who won their appeals last year. Colleges and universities have used code of conduct procedures to govern student behavior since the founding of the country. That is not likely to change any time soon. Until it does that is all they have to help them maintain order and safety on their campuses

The Student Behavior Committee is the central judiciary body for the Twin Cities Campus in all cases involving violations of the University's Student Conduct Code by individual students and as the primary judiciary body for the Twin Cities Campus in all cases involving violations of University rules and policies by student organizations under the jurisdiction of the Student Activities Office.

The Student Behavior Committee shall be composed of:

at least 12 faculty/academic professional members,
at least 10 students, and
ex officio representation as specified by vote of the Twin Cities Delegation.

Members shall be appointed by the Committee on Committees. The chair of the committee shall be a tenured faculty member.

Duties and Responsibilities

a. To serve as the central judiciary body for the Twin Cities Campus in all cases involving violations of the University's Student Conduct Code by individual students.

b. To serve as the primary judiciary body for the Twin Cities Campus in all cases involving violations of University rules and policies by student organizations under the jurisdiction of the Student Activities Office.

c. To hold hearings in accordance with procedures specified in the University's Student Conduct Code and procedures adopted by the committee and approved by the Student Affairs Committee.

d. To recommend to the Senate Consultative Committee such actions or policies as it deems appropriate.

http://usenate.umn.edu/committees/student-behavior-committee-ccsb
Click to expand...

The football case showed that the process is flawed and unfair. The EOAA had 50% of their recomendations overturned on appeal. In courts about 15% of appeals are successful. Such a high over-turn rate indicates a highly flawed process that is unfair to accused. The first level process must be fixed.

Ask the cleared football players if the process worked after depriving them of the opportunity to play in the bowl and having their names smeared.
 

Cruze said:
All it will take to make the U's student disciplinary process transparent is for politicians to abolish the laws that try (but often fail) to protect the personal privacy of every citizen in the country. Don't hold your breath. To say the criminal and civil legal systems (and student codes of conduct) in America are imperfect are a huge understatement. What did you think about Al Franken and Garrison Keillor getting tried and convicted in the news media without the opportunity to defend behavior that happened many years ago? In my opinion it was totally unfair but I also understand it is the world we nol live in.

Unfortunately, Reggie Lynch is a celebrity in Minnesota and it was all but impossible to keep his name out of the news media. Not that the U didn't try. We would have never heard of this matter if it involved a non-athlete at the U. But at least Reggie has the opportunity to hire an attorney to defend himself. Not everyone gets that opportunity in America. I don't feel sorry for Reggie. The large majority of men go through life without ever being accused of sexual abuse or harassment even one time. It has now happened to Reggie three times. He did all this to himself.
Click to expand...

This is pretty deep for a basketball forum:
To respond to the Franken/Keillor. I did not follow the details much but from an outside perspective - these two pushed the mob rules mentality with their views and to see the mob turn on them to crucify them was a little poetic. At least the people going after them were public which is a start but in general - I didnt like it - not at all. I dont like where society is headed when public rumors and slander have the same effect as a Judge/Jury.

The general populace sympathizes too easily to an sincere story and forgets that 2 out of 100 are sociopaths and lie without remorse and for them it is as refreshing as drinking a glass of water is for you. This and all the other problems associated with getting to the truth of something from 2 years ago is why you need smart people with a good system. Anything less should be detestable to all good people.

That being said, the "internal" matter of Lynch is in motion and I have no idea what all the details are, the posturing, any evidence, or the players. Cannot make any judgement on him and won't make a judgement in the future unless I have more info. As with everyone - I hope that if he did these things he separated from the team and gets help and perhaps restitution. If he didn't then he is quickly restored to the team. Knowing what I know now I have very little faith in the University in getting it right either way.
 

What is made of Lynch’s attorney saying one of them texted him a day and week later?
 

BarnBurner said:
What is made of Lynch’s attorney saying one of them texted him a day and week later?
Click to expand...

Hard to say without knowing what was said. Assuming Lynch can produce the texts and they are of a friendly nature that would go quite a long ways in helping his case.
 



dpodoll68 said:
Speaking of this - I would never in a million years follow this woman on Twitter, but someone retweeted one of her posts into my timeline:

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

In other words, she gets to destroy Lynch's reputation (anonymously, of course) while it's a travesty for people to even TALK about the incident for which she wants Lynch to be punished. #Triggered
Click to expand...

How/why do so many young women end up in this predicament? Would like to see some responsibility on both sides of the issue.
 

Block M said:
How/why do so many young women end up in this predicament? Would like to see some responsibility on both sides of the issue.
Click to expand...

As I mentioned in an earlier post, if Lynch is found not guilty, then the girl filing the complaint be penalized in like manner. Maybe not as severe but certainly more than a hand slap.
 

CPTMidnight said:
None of this gives me a lot of confidence in the EOAA. The group that I was envisioning being responsible for meting out justice just got alot worse. I was thinking administration attorneys, former judges, volunteer legal experts, unbiased HR experts but this appears to be some students and some tenured faculty, both probably predisposed to to be sympathetic to the #metoo movement and less focused on any presumption of innocence. I get what Pacyga is saying now, Lynch should be scared. Of course if he is guilty of these things then it is well deserved.

I'll say it again - the accusers and the decision makers all get to hide behind a veil of secrecy while publicly destroying people. This is a public institution, paid for legislatively, and owned by Minnesotans. Just make it transparent.
Click to expand...

The entire process is supposed to be private to protect both parties involved. If this were to happen to some random student, no one would ever hear the details of the of EOAA report or subsequent appeal hearings. You can't treat athletes differently than the general student body in a situation like this. Unfortunately when a situation like this comes up mid-season and a star player is not eligible to play, the coach and/or administration are forced to make a statement, but can't talk about any specifics. It's the same with any celebrity or public figure, you're in the spotlight and held to a different standard by the public. There is no way that this should be a public process anymore than it is already forced to be.

If there's room for procedural improvement, they should wait to suspend/announce anything until the appeal process is over. If the recommendations are reversed, there is no need for any of this to be public. If it is upheld, and the player is kicked off the team or suspended, its then up to player to elaborate on the details of the suspension. For now we're stuck in limbo and it forces both the accuser and accused into a nasty situation. Let the process play out completely before handing out the suspensions. Does anyone know if he is still able to go to class during this appeal period?
 

Gold Vision said:
The entire process is supposed to be private to protect both parties involved. If this were to happen to some random student, no one would ever hear the details of the of EOAA report or subsequent appeal hearings. You can't treat athletes differently than the general student body in a situation like this. Unfortunately when a situation like this comes up mid-season and a star player is not eligible to play, the coach and/or administration are forced to make a statement, but can't talk about any specifics. It's the same with any celebrity or public figure, you're in the spotlight and held to a different standard by the public. There is no way that this should be a public process anymore than it is already forced to be.

If there's room for procedural improvement, they should wait to suspend/announce anything until the appeal process is over. If the recommendations are reversed, there is no need for any of this to be public. If it is upheld, and the player is kicked off the team or suspended, its then up to player to elaborate on the details of the suspension. For now we're stuck in limbo and it forces both the accuser and accused into a nasty situation. Let the process play out completely before handing out the suspensions. Does anyone know if he is still able to go to class during this appeal period?
Click to expand...

I strongly agree with this. Should be kept under wraps until it has completely played out through the university appeal process and the individual should remain an active student/athlete. If its a more serious criminal charge then preemptive suspension is appropriate.
 



I can’t believe that we have a “committee on committees”
 

Gold Vision said:
There is no way that this should be a public process anymore than it is already forced to be.
Click to expand...

Disagree, I think your right if the process were robust, but the EOAA is advocate, prosecutor, and judge. They have sole discretion how the issue is framed to the Jurists... Thus, where I disagree is that the average student is lucky this happened to athletes, so the press and people can scrutinize their systems. Although, this maybe covered under your as much as it needs to be clause.

Gold Vision said:
If there's room for procedural improvement, they should wait to suspend/announce anything until the appeal process is over. If the recommendations are reversed, there is no need for any of this to be public. If it is upheld, and the player is kicked off the team or suspended, its then up to player to elaborate on the details of the suspension. For now we're stuck in limbo and it forces both the accuser and accused into a nasty situation. Let the process play out completely before handing out the suspensions. Does anyone know if he is still able to go to class during this appeal period?
Click to expand...

This is spot on. Yes, he gets to go to class, but I believe that is discretionary.
 

Block M said:
If its a more serious criminal charge then preemptive suspension is appropriate.
Click to expand...

I think absent some rights for the accused than any presumptive punishment is unduly prejudicial.

I often hear defenders claiming this is about victim safety - bull****, If the U is worried about acute issues of student safety, and the police have not investigated, then the U is negligent. Anything serious enough whereby students are in imminent danger cannot be handled by Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys.
 

How do you think this would be handled by North Carolina if a star player at UNC was in the same situation as Lynch?
 

This is a prime example of why we somehow need to get to a point where the victims aren't scared to report rape, assault, etc. When so much time has passed it makes proving guilt and innocence more difficult. I don't know the answer but I think that would help a lot.
 

GophersInIowa said:
This is a prime example of why we somehow need to get to a point where the victims aren't scared to report rape, assault, etc. When so much time has passed it makes proving guilt and innocence more difficult. I don't know the answer but I think that would help a lot.
Click to expand...

I’m not trying to troll and this may be insensitive of me, but, can someone explain why a victim of sexual assault would be scared to report it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

goofinSF said:
I’m not trying to troll and this may be insensitive of me, but, can someone explain why a victim of sexual assault would be scared to report it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Further harassment
Police won’t believe her
Will have to relive experience in public court
Opposing lawyer will probably bring up other parts of victims life in court and attack victim
Abusers are typically found not guilty or will have a very light penalty (because of lack of evidence) and victim will question if its worth it. (Stanford swimmer rape case).
Everything will become public (see Tyrone Carter releasing victims name in football players case)

Probably missing other reasons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

gall0249 said:
Further harassment
Police won’t believe her
Will have to relive experience in public court
Opposing lawyer will probably bring up other parts of victims life in court and attack victim
Abusers are typically found not guilty or will have a very light penalty (because of lack of evidence) and victim will question if its worth it. (Stanford swimmer rape case).
Everything will become public (see Tyrone Carter releasing victims name in football players case)
Click to expand...

Feeling that it's her fault when it isn't.
Feeling ashamed of herself when she shouldn't.
Depression.
Fear.
 

gall0249 said:
Further harassment
Police won’t believe her
Will have to relive experience in public court
Opposing lawyer will probably bring up other parts of victims life in court and attack victim
Abusers are typically found not guilty or will have a very light penalty (because of lack of evidence) and victim will question if its worth it. (Stanford swimmer rape case).
Everything will become public (see Tyrone Carter releasing victims name in football players case)

Probably missing other reasons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

goofinSF said:
I’m not trying to troll and this may be insensitive of me, but, can someone explain why a victim of sexual assault would be scared to report it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Even as an old guy, I think I can safely say because of the embarassment or being judged or some people automatically assuming that it's your fault. These aren't cases where some stranger drags a woman into a car and violently rapes her. They are cases where the people know each other, where there is often alcohol involved, and where there is some involvement. Point is when somebody says, "Stop," things should stop.
 


Thank you for calm rational responses... I feel for victims and I pray for my loved ones to never have to go through with what you described above. I haven’t experienced this in my life so I know I risk coming off as crass, but, I think the list you’ve laid out paints a picture of a lose, lose situation. Sexual assault is horrible plain and simple. The best way to handle this is to not put yourself in the position. But if you do, you must start to make hard decision, waiting to report only makes things worse. This whole thing is just sad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


One thing hit me today..in the past certainly at the pro level, players have gotten a court to intervene with an injunction on the player's behalf allowing the player to play until the player is offered due process under a fair evidence based system. Could Lynch go this route?
 

bga1 said:
One thing hit me today..in the past certainly at the pro level, players have gotten a court to intervene with an injunction on the player's behalf allowing the player to play until the player is offered due process under a fair evidence based system. Could Lynch go this route?
Click to expand...

He has a lawyer but will still be facing a violation of the code of conduct. Lets say your a member of a golf club. They have rules and standards, just like schools do. You violate a rule. It does not fall under a law. Your not being charged with a crime but you are kicked out of the club for your behavior. In this case he is being represented by a lawyer and will have his say and then the committee will decide.
 

This committee is under intense pressure to "convict" given Reggie's name has come before them three times. Can you imagine the fallout if his "sentence" is not upheld? No way that happens. He's a goner.

Reggie pulled his crap at the worst possible time that is for damn sure.
 

builtbadgers said:
He has a lawyer but will still be facing a violation of the code of conduct. Lets say your a member of a golf club. They have rules and standards, just like schools do. You violate a rule. It does not fall under a law. Your not being charged with a crime but you are kicked out of the club for your behavior. In this case he is being represented by a lawyer and will have his say and then the committee will decide.
Click to expand...

This is 100% false. The University, as a government institution enforcing a federal mandate, is obligated by the Constitution to give the accused due process. Lynch could absolutely go before a court and ask for an injunction on the basis that he was denied due process during the EOAA process.

Even a private university would be acting under the color of law in this situation and have a Constitutional obligation.

Pacyga mentioned this in the presser but it may not be a feasible option given financial and time constraints.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom