More starting lineup changes coming for Gophers? Pitino not ruling that out

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That is 27-49 in the big ten with 0 NCAA wins.

Not sure what the second part you are talking about the period I am speaking of were Dutcher's last 3 years and the first two years of Clem, and yes there were suspensions and circumstances that contributed to those.
bga1 said:
I assume that you are discussing last year's Big Ten coach of the year here.... ;)

Were you able to identify the coach that failed even by current Pitino standards?
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rivergopher said:
I guess we will agree to disagree, I am more about results I guess and not having to always look to the future. Those results are terrible the worse since the mid eighties. I do think he gets next year but if it is not an NCAA tournament bid it is time to move on. You can talk all you want about "recruiting" 0 NCAA wins and a well below .500 conference record after 6 years is enough sample size for programs that actually have expectations to move on. You can have all the Johnny and Joes you want, if you cannot coach, construct a roster, and motivate we will be left perpetually looking at the future talking about the next recruiting class.
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It's a process. Pitino is a young coach and learning. Last year (when he won Big Ten Coach of The Year, by the way) was a clear sign that he is taking the team in the right direction. This year was going to be even better than last, but we're missing 3 of our top 6 players. If that makes you lose faith, then, wow.
 

Again, results are results and I am not saying he deserves to be fired this year but he has made mistakes, not taking on a guy in the spring that would help this year has been documented. I see Gopher fans falling into the trap of "next years class" so many on here hyped up Harris and Washington there is nothing saying that any of next years freshman will be difference makers and more than likely not. Not saying they wont contribute but a difference maker not likely. I see a team with one true ballhandler and will be a struggle. What are you expectations? Are you ok with being 20 games under .500 in a 6 year stretch with 0 NCAA wins? To me if it is not an NCAA tournament appearance enough is enough. My gripe has been since the start he got to skip a lot of steps in the process of becoming a big ten coach simply due to his name. Instead we get to feel the pains of his "learning process" and 27-49 is a pain.
Keyser Söze said:
It's a process. Pitino is a young coach and learning. Last year (when he won Big Ten Coach of The Year, by the way) was a clear sign that he is taking the team in the right direction. This year was going to be even better than last, but we're missing 3 of our top 6 players. If that makes you lose faith, then, wow.
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rivergopher said:
Does the 29-47 conference record confirm they know how to evaluate talent? This is year 5 hearing the future is bright is tiresome, the future needs to be now at some point, if this ends with a 5-13 record he better be on the hot seat. At some point he needs to be held responsible for his results, say my 5-13 prediction plays out that would put him at 32-68, with 0 NCAA wins, those are unacceptable results for any power 5 teams after 5 years.
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This post got me to thinking. Pitino is 29-47 (.382) through 76 conference games as a Big Ten head coach. He is going to get a pass on this year, regardless of how it turns out, because of Lynch and Coffey. Tubby Smith was 32-44 (.421) at this point in his tenure, but was already greatly disliked by most of the fanbase. He also certainly didn't get the excuses and rationalizations that Pitino gets despite having many key injuries and players acting like boneheads.

It's very analogous to Claeys-Fleck. People will excuse Fleck's first season and use many "first year" rationalizations that for some reason don't apply to Claeys, even though they were both first-year head coaches. The psychology of fanbases is bizarre.
 

bga1 said:
Pitino put a team together that, prior to the start of the season was top ten in the country material. Then one thing after the other happened, none of it was related to coaching or recruiting, which are the things a coach is generally evaluated on. The season is not over, so we will see what happens. Next year we will have a team that is a bit younger, but perhaps even more talented the one we were starting this year with.
So for this fan, looking at the whole picture, I am happy with what the coach has done and want to keep him for a long, long time to come. I am not happy with the current bad fortune but I have no idea who to blame it on, so I'm not going to blame anyone.

Quick quiz for you- Can you name an ACC coach whose first four years in conference were 20-36 (.357 winning percentage- worse than Pitino) who later did pretty well?
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I think the number 1 thing a coach is evaluated on is his (or her) record.

And please, no Coach K comparisons. The coach with the most wins in men's college basketball history qualifies as an outlier.

And no, I'm not on board with anyone saying we should fire Pitino.
 


dpodoll68 said:
This post got me to thinking. Pitino is 29-47 (.382) through 76 conference games as a Big Ten head coach. He is going to get a pass on this year, regardless of how it turns out, because of Lynch and Coffey. Tubby Smith was 32-44 (.421) at this point in his tenure, but was already greatly disliked by most of the fanbase. He also certainly didn't get the excuses and rationalizations that Pitino gets despite having many key injuries and players acting like boneheads.

It's very analogous to Claeys-Fleck. People will excuse Fleck's first season and use many "first year" rationalizations that for some reason don't apply to Claeys, even though they were both first-year head coaches. The psychology of fanbases is bizarre.
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I don't think there is any accurate comparison between Claeys-Fleck or Fleck-Pitino or Claeys-Tubby or Fleck/Pitino-Claeys/Tubby. Could make a long list of differences between each, but thats for another thread.
 

Yep and in year 5 won was 2 games above .500 in conference with an NCAA tournament appearance Coach K.
 

dpodoll68 said:
This post got me to thinking. Pitino is 29-47 (.382) through 76 conference games as a Big Ten head coach. He is going to get a pass on this year, regardless of how it turns out, because of Lynch and Coffey. Tubby Smith was 32-44 (.421) at this point in his tenure, but was already greatly disliked by most of the fanbase. He also certainly didn't get the excuses and rationalizations that Pitino gets despite having many key injuries and players acting like boneheads.

It's very analogous to Claeys-Fleck. People will excuse Fleck's first season and use many "first year" rationalizations that for some reason don't apply to Claeys, even though they were both first-year head coaches. The psychology of fanbases is bizarre.
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Tubby's main problem was that people could see he was getting tired of the recruiting wars and that the future was not bright. Most people can see whether there is upside in the future or not and will live with present disappointment if the years ahead look good.

Claeys will be a great assistant coach. Fleck will be a great head coach.
 

howeda7 said:
That was brutal. But at least he seems generally able to hold onto a rebound or a pass without fumbling it, which is an upgrade over BK.
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It's beyond brutal. It's the kind of thing you get benched for in high school and shouldn't occur beyond that at all. Inexcusable.


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As someone else noted, before the season, everyone was hyped about Washington, and at least thought Harris would provide a 3-point shooter off the bench. So far, neither has played as well as many expected.

So, let's at least be a little cautious about next year's recruits. yeah, they look good playing against HS opposition in MN - but can they do anything similar playing against D1 opposition - especially in the B1G?

Look - the recruits could come in here and be major contributors from Day 1. But, they might not. So, I think it's premature to talk about how the team will be deeper next year. We thought they would be deeper this year - they aren't.

As far as Pitino, it's been an up-and-down tenure so far. I would like to see him at least put a couple of good years back-to-back. Yes, there have been a lot of things out of his control, but roster management is within his control, and I think there have been a few missteps in that area, to say the least. The big kid from Louisville better be able to play. They can't afford another miss on a big man.
 

Did Pitino recruit Konate and Doodoo? Or did Tubby? I can't remember the braintrust responsible for the double headed disaster which has denied our team adequate depth for 4 freaking years! But they are just the worst of our misses! Buggs also was kind of a waste. At least McNeil, kevin and the loser from Seattle gave us their scholarships back!

Will we be in better shape to withstand injuries next year? Are Stockman, Oturu and Thomas better than Lynch, Konate and Diedou? It is hard to imagine Team Oturu losing a 3v3 game against Team Lynch.

As for the guards, we lose Mason and add Kaleshuer. So we lose effectiveness there unless we can make up for Nate's scoring at SF and SG and cover his game management skills with an improved and humbled IW or a competent Grad Transfer.

So what am I saying, those 2 complete fails of recruiting are what has thrown this team's ability to handle injuries away. Not only are they incompetent, THEY ARE SENIORS!
 

short ornery norwegian said:
As someone else noted, before the season, everyone was hyped about Washington, and at least thought Harris would provide a 3-point shooter off the bench. So far, neither has played as well as many expected.

So, let's at least be a little cautious about next year's recruits. yeah, they look good playing against HS opposition in MN - but can they do anything similar playing against D1 opposition - especially in the B1G?

Look - the recruits could come in here and be major contributors from Day 1. But, they might not. So, I think it's premature to talk about how the team will be deeper next year. We thought they would be deeper this year - they aren't.

As far as Pitino, it's been an up-and-down tenure so far. I would like to see him at least put a couple of good years back-to-back. Yes, there have been a lot of things out of his control, but roster management is within his control, and I think there have been a few missteps in that area, to say the least. The big kid from Louisville better be able to play. They can't afford another miss on a big man.
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Agree. I like the recruiting haul, but I don't expect much from them next year in terms of being front-line players. Oturu is the highest ranked by far, but he's a big man and it's very rare that a true freshman big man can make a big difference in B1G play.
 




Someone brought it up, so it's worth commenting on. The difference between Smith's and Pitino's tenures so far, to me, is that Richard engineered a season where the Gophers had a winning conference record and a top-four finish. Those are things Smith never accomplished here.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Someone brought it up, so it's worth commenting on. The difference between Smith's and Pitino's tenures so far, to me, is that Richard engineered a season where the Gophers had a winning conference record and a top-four finish. Those are things Smith never accomplished here.
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That's fair. I think the obvious counter to that is that Tubby made three NCAA tourneys in 6 years where Richard has made one in 4 with the rest TBD. I also think RP has the benefit of stronger in-state recruiting possibilities than Tubby did. Tubby got a lot of flack for not getting in-state recruits even though there were never very many top 150 MN recruits during his tenure, and he got most of them.
 

dpodoll68 said:
This post got me to thinking. Pitino is 29-47 (.382) through 76 conference games as a Big Ten head coach. He is going to get a pass on this year, regardless of how it turns out, because of Lynch and Coffey. Tubby Smith was 32-44 (.421) at this point in his tenure, but was already greatly disliked by most of the fanbase. He also certainly didn't get the excuses and rationalizations that Pitino gets despite having many key injuries and players acting like boneheads.

It's very analogous to Claeys-Fleck. People will excuse Fleck's first season and use many "first year" rationalizations that for some reason don't apply to Claeys, even though they were both first-year head coaches. The psychology of fanbases is bizarre.
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Tubby had a very good team derailed when Davoe Joseph transferred and then Al Nolen broke his foot. I think he was mostly given a pass on that season for the same reason Pitino will. You can't overcome multiple injuries or not having a PG.
 

CentralGopher said:
It's beyond brutal. It's the kind of thing you get benched for in high school and shouldn't occur beyond that at all. Inexcusable.


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I'll take one bone-headed play over 5 fumbled rebounds and 4 turnovers. If he does it again (which I seriously doubt since Pitino rightfully yanked him immediately) I'll be concerned.
 

howeda7 said:
I'll take one bone-headed play over 5 fumbled rebounds and 4 turnovers. If he does it again (which I seriously doubt since Pitino rightfully yanked him immediately) I'll be concerned.
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Is running laps still an acceptable punishment?


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M&M&M boys, Hurt, Fitz

Tomorrow night I'd go with The M&M&M boys + Hurt and Fitzgerald as starters. Have nothing to lose starting Fitz over Bakary. Athletically this should be a game Hurt can compete in, not look overmatched. If he can't produce something vs. Northwestern, a really discouraging sign. Didn't he hit a big 3 vs. the Wildcats last year? Maybe that'll give him so mojo.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Tomorrow night I'd go with The M&M&M boys + Hurt and Fitzgerald as starters. Have nothing to lose starting Fitz over Bakary. Athletically this should be a game Hurt can compete in, not look overmatched. If he can't produce something vs. Northwestern, a really discouraging sign. Didn't he hit a big 3 vs. the Wildcats last year? Maybe that'll give him so mojo.
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He did hit a big 3 against Maryland, I think.
 

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