Rumors tonight of Lynch no longer on Gopher team...

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There is so much knee-jerk reaction to things like this because people fail to fully read and assess the facts. Then the message boards get going and suddenly we're firing everyone who has spoken to Reggie since he appeared on campus.

Here are some facts that I believe are relevant.

1) this incident happened in April, 2016, prior to the May, 2016 incident for which he was arrested
2.) For whatever reason - shame or #metoo or working up the nerve or whatever - the complaint was not made until "last fall," which from all standards of the english language should refer to sometime Sept-Nov 2017.
3) the EEOC took the complaint and investigated it confidentially since the time it was filed
4) the completed investigation (apparently completed and communicated yesterday) recommended a two-year suspension -- which both the alleged victim and Reggie had the option to accept or appeal.
5) The University's published standard for inappropriate sexual conduct is stricter than the criminal standard - a student must be able to show that his/her partner gave positive consent to any relations that happened, not simply that "nobody said no." The University is entitled to have stricter standards than criminal courts as long as punishment does not impact the legal rights of the student involved.

While the investigation was pending, there was a presumption of innocence on Reggie's part. (Anyone remember that this is still how our country works?) As such, he was entitled to all of the rights and privileges of a U of M student and a Gopher Athlete. With the conclusion of the investigation finding guilt, the University and the Athletic Department can take action even though there will likely be an appeal. This is exactly the right time to suspend Reggie from the team. If the investigation had concluded that no policy violation had occurred and the alleged victim had appealed, it would also be appropriate for Reggie to remain with the team while the appeal is pending.

I'm so tired of people being tried, convicted and hanged in social media and the press without due process. Blaming Pitino and Coyle for Reggie's behavior, or for inaction, or for "not knowing" is just the next step in the group lynching (no pun intended - or is there?). If somebody shows that the Athletic department was somehow complicit in or had knowledge of Reggie's behavior - beyond rumor - and did nothing, then by all means, off with their heads! But so many are too quick to shoot first and ask questions later. Or never ask them at all.

This team will survive the season, and I will still enjoy watching them play. I hope Eric's recovery is going well. This season isn't done for yet, and there's always another one next year.
 

DinkytownDiva said:
There is so much knee-jerk reaction to things like this because people fail to fully read and assess the facts. Then the message boards get going and suddenly we're firing everyone who has spoken to Reggie since he appeared on campus.

Here are some facts that I believe are relevant.

1) this incident happened in April, 2016, prior to the May, 2016 incident for which he was arrested
2.) For whatever reason - shame or #metoo or working up the nerve or whatever - the complaint was not made until "last fall," which from all standards of the english language should refer to sometime Sept-Nov 2017.
3) the EEOC took the complaint and investigated it confidentially since the time it was filed
4) the completed investigation (apparently completed and communicated yesterday) recommended a two-year suspension -- which both the alleged victim and Reggie had the option to accept or appeal.
5) The University's published standard for inappropriate sexual conduct is stricter than the criminal standard - a student must be able to show that his/her partner gave positive consent to any relations that happened, not simply that "nobody said no." The University is entitled to have stricter standards than criminal courts as long as punishment does not impact the legal rights of the student involved.

While the investigation was pending, there was a presumption of innocence on Reggie's part. (Anyone remember that this is still how our country works?) As such, he was entitled to all of the rights and privileges of a U of M student and a Gopher Athlete. With the conclusion of the investigation finding guilt, the University and the Athletic Department can take action even though there will likely be an appeal. This is exactly the right time to suspend Reggie from the team. If the investigation had concluded that no policy violation had occurred and the alleged victim had appealed, it would also be appropriate for Reggie to remain with the team while the appeal is pending.

I'm so tired of people being tried, convicted and hanged in social media and the press without due process. Blaming Pitino and Coyle for Reggie's behavior, or for inaction, or for "not knowing" is just the next step in the group lynching (no pun intended - or is there?). If somebody shows that the Athletic department was somehow complicit in or had knowledge of Reggie's behavior - beyond rumor - and did nothing, then by all means, off with their heads! But so many are too quick to shoot first and ask questions later. Or never ask them at all.

This team will survive the season, and I will still enjoy watching them play. I hope Eric's recovery is going well. This season isn't done for yet, and there's always another one next year.
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I don't see how this hurts the program too much. this is way less damaging than the sex tape scandal. sure, Reggie may be a monster and he may have victims that we should all care for, but in terms of the basketball team and the product on the floor, Reggie would not be on this team next year regardless and we have a top 50 freshman Center coming in along with the Louisville transfer. couple that with Eric Curry's return, and the Gophers have better front court depth than we have had in years.

the future is still bright
 

Whether he practices or not, I doubt anyone much cares. I suppose it could be helpful to Konate/Gaston. But I hope he has not at the games. They don't need him to be the focal point of every game the rest of the season more than he already will be. And I doubt he would want to be there for the same reason.
 

howeda7 said:
Whether he practices or not, I doubt anyone much cares. I suppose it could be helpful to Konate/Gaston. But I hope he has not at the games. They don't need him to be the focal point of every game the rest of the season more than he already will be. And I doubt he would want to be there for the same reason.
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He can't possibly be on the bench during games. That would be idiotic and a major distraction.
 

WanderingGopher said:
This is exactly the problem with the whole EOAA environment. This kind of rumor is taken as truth. In court you'd need actual evidence.
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And when these rumors have followed Reggie everywhere you have to more then likely believe it as truth.
 


DinkytownDiva said:
There is so much knee-jerk reaction to things like this because people fail to fully read and assess the facts. Then the message boards get going and suddenly we're firing everyone who has spoken to Reggie since he appeared on campus.

Here are some facts that I believe are relevant.

1) this incident happened in April, 2016, prior to the May, 2016 incident for which he was arrested
2.) For whatever reason - shame or #metoo or working up the nerve or whatever - the complaint was not made until "last fall," which from all standards of the english language should refer to sometime Sept-Nov 2017.
3) the EEOC took the complaint and investigated it confidentially since the time it was filed
4) the completed investigation (apparently completed and communicated yesterday) recommended a two-year suspension -- which both the alleged victim and Reggie had the option to accept or appeal.
5) The University's published standard for inappropriate sexual conduct is stricter than the criminal standard - a student must be able to show that his/her partner gave positive consent to any relations that happened, not simply that "nobody said no." The University is entitled to have stricter standards than criminal courts as long as punishment does not impact the legal rights of the student involved.

While the investigation was pending, there was a presumption of innocence on Reggie's part. (Anyone remember that this is still how our country works?) As such, he was entitled to all of the rights and privileges of a U of M student and a Gopher Athlete. With the conclusion of the investigation finding guilt, the University and the Athletic Department can take action even though there will likely be an appeal. This is exactly the right time to suspend Reggie from the team. If the investigation had concluded that no policy violation had occurred and the alleged victim had appealed, it would also be appropriate for Reggie to remain with the team while the appeal is pending.

I'm so tired of people being tried, convicted and hanged in social media and the press without due process. Blaming Pitino and Coyle for Reggie's behavior, or for inaction, or for "not knowing" is just the next step in the group lynching (no pun intended - or is there?). If somebody shows that the Athletic department was somehow complicit in or had knowledge of Reggie's behavior - beyond rumor - and did nothing, then by all means, off with their heads! But so many are too quick to shoot first and ask questions later. Or never ask them at all.

This team will survive the season, and I will still enjoy watching them play. I hope Eric's recovery is going well. This season isn't done for yet, and there's always another one next year.
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Scoreboard.
 

strommen said:
But the key point is...allowing a sexual assaulter to continue playing for the team is a worse outcome than expelling an innocent person.
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I think this is 100% wrong, but the problem is I think there is a faction at the U who totally agree with it, and that's why we're going to continue to have this issue with the EOAA and our sports teams whereas you don't hear about it as much at other schools (with the exception of far, far worse cases like Baylor).

I am convinced that campus assault is a big problem, but it's 100% NOT a problem unique to the University of Minnesota, as some are trying to paint it to be.
 


Nothing to do with Reggie Lynch, but just a point of interest:

Several pages back, someone pointed out the commonly held notion that false accusations of sexual assault are rare (commonly held to be between 2 and 10%, tops). This is very likely true, but misses the point completely. Due process isn't important to weed out 'false accusations', it's important in order to weed out the 'wrongly accused' from punishment. There's a very big difference, and the latter is almost by definition much larger than the 2-10%.

The 2-10% number refers to 'false accusations' as usually researched in criminal proceedings. They are basically defined as accusations that upon investigation are likely or demonstrably false (i.e. 'scorned exes'). But that's only one source of 'wrongful accusation'.

There are also 'baseless' allegations. These are situations that may or may not be true, but simply lack evidence. Most of these are certainly true allegations, but at least some are certainly false, and we simply cannot determine how many (no evidence, remember?).

Next are accusations that are not baseless, and are prosecuted. In many of these cases, guilty verdicts are returned. But even in courtrooms with juries, judges, defense lawyers, right to face your accuser, etc., the wrong verdict is reached far too often. If you don't believe me, check out the web page for The Innocence Project which is littered with stories of alleged rapists (often convicted based on victim's identifying them), that have subsequently been released from prison upon review of DNA evidence.

Finally, we have the accusations that are not baseless, are prosecuted, and where a NOT guilty verdict is returned. Some of these are certainly cases of a criminal getting away with it, but again, some (many?) are certainly cases where the accused actually did not do it.

So while nefarious false allegations are certainly <pretty> rare, the situation where someone is wrongfully accused is almost certainly far more common. That's why due process is so very critical.
 



WanderingGopher said:
I think this is 100% wrong, but the problem is I think there is a faction at the U who totally agree with it, and that's why we're going to continue to have this issue with the EOAA and our sports teams whereas you don't hear about it as much at other schools (with the exception of far, far worse cases like Baylor).

I am convinced that campus assault is a big problem, but it's 100% NOT a problem unique to the University of Minnesota, as some are trying to paint it to be.
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You don't have to try too hard to find other schools...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...sexual-misconduct-lawsuit-20171207-story.html
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/4/oberlin-college-sex-assault-conviction-rate-100/
http://www.news-leader.com/story/ne...ported-monday-msu-fraternity-house/970649001/
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/...vance-after-title-ix-investigation/451520001/
 

 

Holy Man said:
Yale also has a really messy one going with the captain of their NCAA tournament team from a couple of years ago suing the university.
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Harvard's had its share. MSU is in the spotlight as well with some associated with that former Olympic gymnastics trainer, who was on staff there.
 

10% false accusations doesn't seem like a small number to me when you are talking about ruining lives. In fact, from a pure mathematical point of view that would say that Reggie has a 1% chance of both 2016 incidents being false. While not a large number, has anyone here ever won a raffle? It happens. I am NOT saying he is innocent, but looking at the numbers as 10% is not rare in my book. What makes Reggie's case different is that the EOAA found enough to warrant the suspension. Thus this case is probably far beyond those numbers.
 



Yahoo: Minnesota's decision to play Reggie Lynch this season demands further scrutiny

There are two questions that loom larger than any others in the wake of Minnesota’s decision to suspend standout center Reggie Lynch on Friday morning.

Why did Minnesota feel comfortable allowing Lynch to play this season despite him facing accusations of two separate incidents of sexual assault in spring 2016? And why does Lynch still remain a member of the Golden Gophers basketball program even though a school investigation found him responsible in one of the two sexual misconduct incidents?

Minnesota athletic director Mark Coyle and basketball coach Richard Pitino both spoke to reporters at a news conference in Minneapolis on Friday, but neither offered a convincing explanation for either decision. While declining to discuss the specifics of Lynch’s case because of student privacy laws, both cited university guidelines guaranteeing students “due process” when accused of a crime.

Said Pitino, “When certain things like this happen, you know big things, you go to your boss, you discuss it and you go with the policies that are in place.”

Said Coyle, “People should trust the procedures we have in place. We have procedures that have been reviewed by outside agencies. We have procedures people have focused on, worked on and followed. Those procedures include providing due process for everybody involved.”

The absence of more satisfactory and specific answers demands hard questions and further scrutiny. At some point Minnesota must address when Pitino and Coyle learned about the second alleged incident and whether they allowed Lynch’s significance to the basketball program to impact any of their decisions.

What we do know is that Lynch is a critically important piece of a Minnesota team that began the season with aspirations of challenging Michigan State and Purdue for the Big Ten title. The nation’s third-leading shot blocker averaged 10.1 points, 8.0 rebounds and 4.1 blocks so far this season and once again served as the backbone of the Golden Gopher defense.

What we also know is that Lynch has twice been accused of sexual misconduct but has never been charged with a crime.

The Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported Friday that Minnesota’s Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action office found him responsible for sexual misconduct stemming from an April 2016 incident that took place in his dorm room. Lynch has the right to appeal his suspension from the basketball team and his ban from campus until August 2020.

One month after the April 2016 assault, Lynch was also arrested for a separate incident involving a different female accuser. He was suspended from the team at the time that allegation was made, but reinstated when no charges were filed.

Coyle said Friday that Lynch can practice with his Minnesota teammates while suspended but he will not be allowed to play in games. Neither Coyle nor Pitino ruled out the possibility that Lynch could play again this season.

Lynch is a transfer from Illinois State who came to Minnesota in 2015. Asked if it was a mistake to recruit him, Pitino said, “I don’t know.” He later added that he and his staff “do a lot of background” before accepting a transfer and “never saw any red flags.”

The investigation into Lynch’s conduct is certainly not the first of its kind at Minnesota in recent years.

Last year, Minnesota’s football team threatened to boycott a bowl game over the suspension of 10 players accused of sexual assault. The year before that, athletic director Norwood Teague resigned amid sexual harassment complaints.

The basketball team hasn’t been immune to the problems either. In 2014, sophomore Daquein McNeil was kicked off the team after allegedly committing felony assault against his girlfriend. In February 2016, guards Nate Mason, Kevin Dorsey and Dupree McBrayer were suspended for the rest of the season after a sexually explicit video starring Dorsey was posted to his Twitter account. Dorsey was granted his release after the season, while Mason and McBrayer were reinstated.



When Pitino was asked if Minnesota had a cultural problem, he was adamant that the school doesn’t. He was less convincing when asked if the university’s policy needs to be changed to prevent a situation where a player is accused of sexual assault multiple times yet gets to play.

Said Pitino, “I’m just the basketball coach.”

And with that he ended a press conference that left more questions than answers.

https://sports.yahoo.com/minnesotas...-lynch-season-demands-scrutiny-190836071.html

Go Gophers!!
 

Terrible news regardless of how the facts eventually play out. The thing that I always struggle with is if there isn't enough evidence to file a criminal charge, how can the University have enough evidence to punish the individual? With that said, if Reggie is indeed guilty of these rumors, he should be removed from campus and expelled immediately.
 

DinkytownDiva said:
There is so much knee-jerk reaction to things like this because people fail to fully read and assess the facts. Then the message boards get going and suddenly we're firing everyone who has spoken to Reggie since he appeared on campus.

Here are some facts that I believe are relevant.

1) this incident happened in April, 2016, prior to the May, 2016 incident for which he was arrested
2.) For whatever reason - shame or #metoo or working up the nerve or whatever - the complaint was not made until "last fall," which from all standards of the english language should refer to sometime Sept-Nov 2017.
3) the EEOC took the complaint and investigated it confidentially since the time it was filed
4) the completed investigation (apparently completed and communicated yesterday) recommended a two-year suspension -- which both the alleged victim and Reggie had the option to accept or appeal.
5) The University's published standard for inappropriate sexual conduct is stricter than the criminal standard - a student must be able to show that his/her partner gave positive consent to any relations that happened, not simply that "nobody said no." The University is entitled to have stricter standards than criminal courts as long as punishment does not impact the legal rights of the student involved.

While the investigation was pending, there was a presumption of innocence on Reggie's part. (Anyone remember that this is still how our country works?) As such, he was entitled to all of the rights and privileges of a U of M student and a Gopher Athlete. With the conclusion of the investigation finding guilt, the University and the Athletic Department can take action even though there will likely be an appeal. This is exactly the right time to suspend Reggie from the team. If the investigation had concluded that no policy violation had occurred and the alleged victim had appealed, it would also be appropriate for Reggie to remain with the team while the appeal is pending.

I'm so tired of people being tried, convicted and hanged in social media and the press without due process. Blaming Pitino and Coyle for Reggie's behavior, or for inaction, or for "not knowing" is just the next step in the group lynching (no pun intended - or is there?). If somebody shows that the Athletic department was somehow complicit in or had knowledge of Reggie's behavior - beyond rumor - and did nothing, then by all means, off with their heads! But so many are too quick to shoot first and ask questions later. Or never ask them at all.

This team will survive the season, and I will still enjoy watching them play. I hope Eric's recovery is going well. This season isn't done for yet, and there's always another one next year.
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Good first post in this forum. Or good first post under a new moniker. Either way.
 

I give the victim credit for going through the process instead of doing the #metoo publicly.

If it was October when she filed the complaint, then it would have been during the Weinstein, Halperin, Ratner, etc. feeding frenzy, and there would have been no finding of fact and the court of public opinion would have been harsher with Lynch than the U ended up being.
 

Weird stuff here, but remember - these are allegations. Reggie will have more due process protection than the football players got. You have to be proven guilty, no matter how damning early charges sound.
 


Great Plains Gopher said:
Weird stuff here, but remember - these are allegations. Reggie will have more due process protection than the football players got. You have to be proven guilty, no matter how damning early charges sound.
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How so? Wouldn't he have received the same due process? I'm not sure if I understand how his situation is different in terms of the way it is being handled.
 

I am curious to know how long the team has known about the investigation. Hopefully the team rallies and steps up their game.
 

Tigger said:
10% false accusations doesn't seem like a small number to me when you are talking about ruining lives. In fact, from a pure mathematical point of view that would say that Reggie has a 1% chance of both 2016 incidents being false. While not a large number, has anyone here ever won a raffle? It happens. I am NOT saying he is innocent, but looking at the numbers as 10% is not rare in my book. What makes Reggie's case different is that the EOAA found enough to warrant the suspension. Thus this case is probably far beyond those numbers.
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To me, 1 percent is beyond reasonable doubt.

That said, when it comes to invasive / violent crimes, there is a cost to not putting someone behind bars: their future victims. In my opinion, you have to weigh that against the potential of false 'convictions.'

At the end of reading way too much about this today, I'm adamantly firm on one position.

Reggie Lynch needs help and I hope he gets it.

Sent from my 2PZC5 using Tapatalk
 

Fair or not, this will be part of the national narrative:

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Go Gophers!!
 

fraternity2017 said:
What does the U have to gain from letting Reggie practice with the team? Do they really think there’s a chance he’ll play this year? Cut his ass and take a strong stance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Based on rules regarding scholarship athletes there is some protection around just kicking them off the team without these investigations having been completed (according to my co-worker who knows the U's legal system). I believe if he decided not to appeal they could release him from his scholarship/kick him out.
 

So if it's found that Reggie is thrown under bus for it will Coyle and Kaler get their coats stuck in the wheels too? I guess that's a fair trade if he can't appeal despite the 2 year delay if it means the two clowns get fired for second major sports incident they've punished wrong
 

DinkytownDiva said:
There is so much knee-jerk reaction to things like this because people fail to fully read and assess the facts. Then the message boards get going and suddenly we're firing everyone who has spoken to Reggie since he appeared on campus.

Here are some facts that I believe are relevant.

1) this incident happened in April, 2016, prior to the May, 2016 incident for which he was arrested
2.) For whatever reason - shame or #metoo or working up the nerve or whatever - the complaint was not made until "last fall," which from all standards of the english language should refer to sometime Sept-Nov 2017.
3) the EEOC took the complaint and investigated it confidentially since the time it was filed
4) the completed investigation (apparently completed and communicated yesterday) recommended a two-year suspension -- which both the alleged victim and Reggie had the option to accept or appeal.
5) The University's published standard for inappropriate sexual conduct is stricter than the criminal standard - a student must be able to show that his/her partner gave positive consent to any relations that happened, not simply that "nobody said no." The University is entitled to have stricter standards than criminal courts as long as punishment does not impact the legal rights of the student involved.

While the investigation was pending, there was a presumption of innocence on Reggie's part. (Anyone remember that this is still how our country works?) As such, he was entitled to all of the rights and privileges of a U of M student and a Gopher Athlete. With the conclusion of the investigation finding guilt, the University and the Athletic Department can take action even though there will likely be an appeal. This is exactly the right time to suspend Reggie from the team. If the investigation had concluded that no policy violation had occurred and the alleged victim had appealed, it would also be appropriate for Reggie to remain with the team while the appeal is pending.

I'm so tired of people being tried, convicted and hanged in social media and the press without due process. Blaming Pitino and Coyle for Reggie's behavior, or for inaction, or for "not knowing" is just the next step in the group lynching (no pun intended - or is there?). If somebody shows that the Athletic department was somehow complicit in or had knowledge of Reggie's behavior - beyond rumor - and did nothing, then by all means, off with their heads! But so many are too quick to shoot first and ask questions later. Or never ask them at all.

This team will survive the season, and I will still enjoy watching them play. I hope Eric's recovery is going well. This season isn't done for yet, and there's always another one next year.
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I feel like the moderators should pin this at the top of the thread. You explained the process very well. There are a lot of journalists and regular people posting about this that should also read this to understand why he continued to play during the investigation.
 

rowdaboat said:
So if it's found that Reggie is thrown under bus for it will Coyle and Kaler get their coats stuck in the wheels too? I guess that's a fair trade if he can't appeal despite the 2 year delay if it means the two clowns get fired for second major sports incident they've punished wrong
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What?

Sent from my 2PZC5 using Tapatalk
 

rowdaboat said:
So if it's found that Reggie is thrown under bus for it will Coyle and Kaler get their coats stuck in the wheels too? I guess that's a fair trade if he can't appeal despite the 2 year delay if it means the two clowns get fired for second major sports incident they've punished wrong
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JHC! Do you not even try to read because you've already decided Coyle and Kaler are wrong or do you have a serious problem comprehending?
 

BleedGopher said:
Fair or not, this will be part of the national narrative:

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Go Gophers!!
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Yeah, and since we can't get an official comment on when the complaint was filed, there's no way to refute that piece of it.

I don't like that the process doesn't allow for swift action, but it seems to be fair.

Since there are people who are calling the process too slow, and others saying it doesn't protect the athlete enough, it's a good sign that as frustrating as the process is... It's about as good as you'll get.

Sent from my 2PZC5 using Tapatalk
 

Abby Honold claims she met with Athletic department officials (sounds like Coyle in some of the media reports) specifically to talk about Lynch. If this is true and more women come forward, it could be the end of Coyle and anyone else who can be seen as sheltering an active sex offender.

https://twitter.com/abbyhonold/status/949172338041475072
 

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