STrib: For Gophers football fans, the vision should be 2020 (and beyond)

2017 was year zero, so what’s 2020 going to be in Flecks world? Year 1 or 2?

Well, I don't normally listen to PJ talk out loud, for obvious reasons, but being excited about the recruiting class I did DVR then watch most of the "PJ Fleck Show" on Fox9. My Mistake. PJ quite clearly stated that last year was "year zero", but that the signing day Wednesday was the start of "Year 1". So there you have it, the PJ Fleck era has finally begun at Minnesota.

You might think I'm kidding, but no. He actually said that. Seriously.


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Well, I don't normally listen to PJ talk out loud, for obvious reasons, but being excited about the recruiting class I did DVR then watch most of the "PJ Fleck Show" on Fox9. My Mistake. PJ quite clearly stated that last year was "year zero", but that the signing day Wednesday was the start of "Year 1". So there you have it, the PJ Fleck era has finally begun at Minnesota.

You might think I'm kidding, but no. He actually said that. Seriously.


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Indeed, that is what Fleck said. I feel bad for this past senior class, which Fleck clearly couldn't have cared less about.
I don't believe Fleck tried to tank any games this year, but I do think he cared more about recruiting the next class than he did about coaching the team this past season.
 

Indeed, that is what Fleck said. I feel bad for this past senior class, which Fleck clearly couldn't have cared less about.
I don't believe Fleck tried to tank any games this year, but I do think he cared more about recruiting the next class than he did about coaching the team this past season.

Do you and Spoofin ever think of starting a GoFundMe for our seniors who PJ didn't care about.

You guys could probably raise a fair amount of funds with all of those others who think PJ wasted their seasons as seniors.


On the other hand, we could maybe put some blame on why we didn't have more and better juniors and seniors who could have carried this team, but no... that's where it's PJ's fault.
 

Do you and Spoofin ever think of starting a GoFundMe for our seniors who PJ didn't care about.

You guys could probably raise a fair amount of funds with all of those others who think PJ wasted their seasons as seniors.


On the other hand, we could maybe put some blame on why we didn't have more and better juniors and seniors who could have carried this team, but no... that's where it's PJ's fault.
We did have better seniors and juniors...who left after Coyle suspended half the team for no good reason and then fired their coach.
Sorry, your lame excuses for this past falls failures are empty of any validity. Fleck and Coyle can own their choices. Fleck had no problem in caring little for this year's seniors. After all...it was year zero.
 

Do you and Spoofin ever think of starting a GoFundMe for our seniors who PJ didn't care about.

You guys could probably raise a fair amount of funds with all of those others who think PJ wasted their seasons as seniors.


On the other hand, we could maybe put some blame on why we didn't have more and better juniors and seniors who could have carried this team, but no... that's where it's PJ's fault.

We can't all be as objective as you when it comes to PJ. It is admirable.


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Why do some Gopher fans think you need to be either a Kill/Claeys guy or a Fleck guy? Kill and to a lesser extent, Claeys were great for our program and helped steer us in the right direction. I’m thankful for their efforts here. However unless they would have started pulling in better classes they really had a ceiling of around 9-3 or so. It’s okay to support them and still give Fleck a chance. He has the most upside of any coach that would come to the U, and I can definitely foresee scenarios where he at least delivers Rose Bowls.
 

We did have better seniors and juniors...who left after Coyle suspended half the team for no good reason and then fired their coach.
Sorry, your lame excuses for this past falls failures are empty of any validity. Fleck and Coyle can own their choices. Fleck had no problem in caring little for this year's seniors. After all...it was year zero.


You forgot 9 WINS last year too. Who cares if the team gets a pile of bad publicity from moronic decisions not related to football by some players? #HailClaeys #9WINS
 

Well, I don't normally listen to PJ talk out loud, for obvious reasons, but being excited about the recruiting class I did DVR then watch most of the "PJ Fleck Show" on Fox9. My Mistake. PJ quite clearly stated that last year was "year zero", but that the signing day Wednesday was the start of "Year 1". So there you have it, the PJ Fleck era has finally begun at Minnesota.

You might think I'm kidding, but no. He actually said that. Seriously.


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That's my favorite TV show!
 

Why do some Gopher fans think you need to be either a Kill/Claeys guy or a Fleck guy? Kill and to a lesser extent, Claeys were great for our program and helped steer us in the right direction. I’m thankful for their efforts here. However unless they would have started pulling in better classes they really had a ceiling of around 9-3 or so. It’s okay to support them and still give Fleck a chance. He has the most upside of any coach that would come to the U, and I can definitely foresee scenarios where he at least delivers Rose Bowls.

I like all of our coaches. Even Brewster when he was coach.
It's not easy for me to discern every decision they make as it happens whether it was right or wrong.

Only time several years later shows what was good or bad.
Usually by the time a coaching change happens, someone who is closer to the program decides there is too much going wrong and not enough right.
I might question a decision at the time, but more times than not, the person deciding got it right.
 



Here are the current schedules over the next 3 seasons. 2020 looks to be the most challenging in terms of B1G opponents

2018
1. New Mexico St
2. Fresno St
3. Miami (OH)
4. @Maryland
5. Iowa
6. @Ohio State
7. @Nebraska
8. Indiana
9. @Illinois
10. Purdue
11. Northwestern
12. @Wisconsin

2019
1. South Dakota St
2. @Fresno St
3. Georgia Southern
4. @Purdue
5. Illinois
6. Nebraska
7. @Rutgers
8. Maryland
9. Penn State
10. @Iowa
11. @Northwestern
12. Wisconsin

2020
1. TBD
2. Miami (OH)
3. Iowa
4. BYU
5. @Maryland
6. @Wisconsin
7. Michigan
8. @Illinois
9. @Michigan St
10. Purdue
11. Northwestern
12. @Nebraska

How come we don't have Indiana, Rutgers and Maryland all in the same season? :)
It looks like they have tried to balance things out, I remember a few years ago (wasn't too terribly long ago I don't think)when the Gophers had Michigan and tOSU and Wisky had the 3 weaker teams. Definitely not right.
 

You forgot 9 WINS last year too. Who cares if the team gets a pile of bad publicity from moronic decisions not related to football by some players? #HailClaeys #9WINS

People need to just trust PJ. The guy won a Bahamas Bowl, for Pete's sake. He's incredibly efficient. Do you have any idea how hard it is for 90% of a roster to show zero improvement? PJ'S a trailblazer. Taking a pair of talented running backs and having them net -500 yards rushing coupled with 13 fewer rushing TDs? Unprecedented. This guy won't be saddled with silly notions like player improvement and realisic expectations. National titles are easily within reach!
 

People need to just trust PJ. The guy won a Bahamas Bowl, for Pete's sake. He's incredibly efficient. Do you have any idea how hard it is for 90% of a roster to show zero improvement? PJ'S a trailblazer. Taking a pair of talented running backs and having them net -500 yards rushing coupled with 13 fewer rushing TDs? Unprecedented. This guy won't be saddled with silly notions like player improvement and realisic expectations. National titles are easily within reach!

I trust PJ more than I’d ever trust Tracy Claeys to improve this team going forward from 2016. I’ll even grant you with Claeys, maybe they win 2 more games last year. Are you feeling better about ‘17 and the future of the program then at 7-5 vs. 5-7 with Claeys rather than Coach Fleck? I’m not and that’s my opinion. Obviously we’ll never know for sure as there won’t be any alternate 1985 like in Back to the Future II any time soon.


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I trust PJ more than I’d ever trust Tracy Claeys to improve this team going forward from 2016. I’ll even grant you with Claeys, maybe they win 2 more games last year. Are you feeling better about ‘17 and the future of the program then at 7-5 vs. 5-7 with Claeys rather than Coach Fleck? I’m not and that’s my opinion. Obviously we’ll never know for sure as there won’t be any alternate 1985 like in Back to the Future II any time soon.


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OH, there you go again!
Ripping on previous football staffs.

We can come on here and draw ridiculous conclusions because in PJ's 4 years of previous coaching experience, he only won one small bowl game after taking over a horrible team.

But you.... you sir.... you're comparing Fleck and his likely ability to be a better recruiter and program leader as coach to a guy who resembles Santa Claus on X-mas weekend. That will not be tolerated.
That previous coach won NINE GAMES sir. I'll have you know that before you go on ripping anything else on this team.
NINE GAMES including a BIG WIN over Washington STATE!

Yes. That Washington State. That was a BIG WIN! Don't you forget it and don't you come back on here ripping on our previous coaches like that.
 



OH, there you go again!
Ripping on previous football staffs.

We can come on here and draw ridiculous conclusions because in PJ's 4 years of previous coaching experience, he only won one small bowl game after taking over a horrible team.

But you.... you sir.... you're comparing Fleck and his likely ability to be a better recruiter and program leader as coach to a guy who resembles Santa Claus on X-mas weekend. That will not be tolerated.
That previous coach won NINE GAMES sir. I'll have you know that before you go on ripping anything else on this team.
NINE GAMES including a BIG WIN over Washington STATE!

Yes. That Washington State. That was a BIG WIN! Don't you forget it and don't you come back on here ripping on our previous coaches like that.

I think you might want to run a virus scan on your device... it looks like your caps lock is sticking in random places.
 

I trust PJ more than I’d ever trust Tracy Claeys to improve this team going forward from 2016. I’ll even grant you with Claeys, maybe they win 2 more games last year. Are you feeling better about ‘17 and the future of the program then at 7-5 vs. 5-7 with Claeys rather than Coach Fleck? I’m not and that’s my opinion. Obviously we’ll never know for sure as there won’t be any alternate 1985 like in Back to the Future II any time soon.


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Great Biggy. PJ is better than Claeys. Noted. Not sure why you won't let anyone criticize PJ w/o instantly making it a comparison to TC? PJ needs to stand on his own. TC is gone. Let him go.


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I sure it won't be long until some in here twist this to be say that this is what Fleck is trying to sell to the fans. They key now is to start showing signs of growth each year, the big success is probably a few years off but as Rand laid out there should be an upward trajectory.

Well, that is exactly what PJ has been selling. His words, not mine. Keep up.

“By ’19, I will be able to fix the issues, but we will be young,” Fleck said Monday. “We will be older with some youth, developing depth, creating depth. Then when you hit ’20, that’s when you see a spike in, ‘Holy cow, they’re good.”


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My biggest complaint is the Year Zero remarks. Such a negative connotation. You can phrase it differently and not piss people off. It’s a point of division that we just didn’t need.
 

Why do some Gopher fans think you need to be either a Kill/Claeys guy or a Fleck guy? Kill and to a lesser extent, Claeys were great for our program and helped steer us in the right direction. I’m thankful for their efforts here. However unless they would have started pulling in better classes they really had a ceiling of around 9-3 or so. It’s okay to support them and still give Fleck a chance. He has the most upside of any coach that would come to the U, and I can definitely foresee scenarios where he at least delivers Rose Bowls.

This!
 

Well, that is exactly what PJ has been selling. His words, not mine. Keep up.

“By ’19, I will be able to fix the issues, but we will be young,” Fleck said Monday. “We will be older with some youth, developing depth, creating depth. Then when you hit ’20, that’s when you see a spike in, ‘Holy cow, they’re good.”

Look at the depth chart. There’s a thread on here. I’m not sure how anyone could compare MN’s depth chart to the others in the Big Ten and arrive at any conclusion other than that PJ stepped into a steaming pile of sh¡t. And no, that’s not a slam on the 2017 players. It’s the reality of 2-3 big waves of early player “resignations” that happened in 2015-2016.

The context of the quote above is that it was a response to several questions about how long it would take for MN to be in a similar situation as Western Michigan in 2016. His point is that it doesn’t happen overnight. It’s not “selling”. It’s just reality.

Check the depth chart. What year will we have 3-4 5th year SR O-linemen on the roster?
 

Great Biggy. PJ is better than Claeys. Noted. Not sure why you won't let anyone criticize PJ w/o instantly making it a comparison to TC? PJ needs to stand on his own. TC is gone. Let him go.


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It’s pretty easy to criticize when you throw out stats like “-500 yards rushing” or “13 less rushing TD’s” referring to a difference between ‘16 & ‘17 like college football improvement is totally linear. It’s not. Basically seems to me like another way to argue “we won 9 games in ‘16”. It’s a lazy argument and bothers me.

There is certainly criticism to be had of Fleck. I’m sure there are some things he & Staff could have done to get this team Bowl eligible, but honesty, for me as a fan it wouldn’t have made much, if any, of a difference this year. I can see his long view plan for the program and have no reason to not trust his process as he’s shown it’s worked (albeit at WMU). If that makes me a Fleckster, Fleckite or whatever, so be it. We’d still have the same problems today that we did without going to a bowl game.

If he’s not successful implementing his plan I’ll certainly be criticizing him for his errors. Knowing the roster issues this team has (players expelled, leaving program, kicked off team, youth, depth or talent issues in the trenches and at WR & DB), it was going to be tough for this team to be successful (let’s say 8 wins is successful for sake of arguement) in ‘17 & ‘18 with Fleck or Claeys. I just can’t see it.

Since we don’t have access to an alternate reality, we’ll never know.
 

Look at the depth chart. There’s a thread on here. I’m not sure how anyone could compare MN’s depth chart to the others in the Big Ten and arrive at any conclusion other than that PJ stepped into a steaming pile of sh¡t. And no, that’s not a slam on the 2017 players. It’s the reality of 2-3 big waves of early player “resignations” that happened in 2015-2016.

The context of the quote above is that it was a response to several questions about how long it would take for MN to be in a similar situation as Western Michigan in 2016. His point is that it doesn’t happen overnight. It’s not “selling”. It’s just reality.

Check the depth chart. What year will we have 3-4 5th year SR O-linemen on the roster?

Sure thing GM. All I hear now is how horrible our roster is. How obvious it is. What a terrible situation PJ inherited. How that previous QB everyone hated so was actually good. Lucky if they can tie their own shoes.

A poll on here before the season had the majority picking 8 wins. Vegas had o/u at 7.5, but now it is so obvious that PJ inherited such a "steaming pile of sh;t" that no rational person could have expected or should expect any success until 2020. "Check the roster." LOL. PJ keeps selling it and you keep buying it. I disagree.


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I don't think Scott Frost is going to wait three years.

No one is “waiting” as you put it.

Nebraska has enough talent on their roster right now to win 7-9 games in 2018. Considering their talent, it is amazing how bad this year’s NE team was. A lot of analysts, nationally, noted that throughout the season. I never heard anyone claim the same of MN this year (besides a few whack-jobs on Gopherhole of course).
 

Sure thing GM. All I hear now is how horrible our roster is. How obvious it is. What a terrible situation PJ inherited. How that previous QB everyone hated so was actually good. Lucky if they can tie their own shoes.

A poll on here before the season had the majority picking 8 wins. Vegas had o/u at 7.5, but now it is so obvious that PJ inherited such a "steaming pile of sh;t" that no rational person could have expected or should expect any success until 2020. "Check the roster." LOL. PJ keeps selling it and you keep buying it. I disagree.

A fan poll is one reflection of how good fans perceive the team should be. It is more than a few steps removed from reality. I, for one, thought the team would have 6 or 7 wins. As I look back at it, I think I was wrong mostly because I assumed the QB situation would be resolved with more clarity and there were injuries in a few area where there was not an adequate back-up.

There is a lot for PJ to build-on over the next few years, but depth in certain areas was a huge problem for MN in 2017.

We have the facts linked right here on this board. So we can discuss facts (rather than feelings and emotions, and who’s “buying” and who’s “selling”.) Let’s start with the o-line. What year do you think we will have 3-4 good SR O-linemen??? And how many did we have in 2017?
 

Here are the current schedules over the next 3 seasons. 2020 looks to be the most challenging in terms of B1G opponents

2018
1. New Mexico St
2. Fresno St
3. Miami (OH)
4. @Maryland
5. Iowa
6. @Ohio State
7. @Nebraska
8. Indiana
9. @Illinois
10. Purdue
11. Northwestern
12. @Wisconsin

2019
1. South Dakota St
2. @Fresno St
3. Georgia Southern
4. @Purdue
5. Illinois
6. Nebraska
7. @Rutgers
8. Maryland
9. Penn State
10. @Iowa
11. @Northwestern
12. Wisconsin

2020
1. TBD
2. Miami (OH)
3. Iowa
4. BYU
5. @Maryland
6. @Wisconsin
7. Michigan
8. @Illinois
9. @Michigan St
10. Purdue
11. Northwestern
12. @Nebraska

Why do we play Maryland every year?? Not that I'm complaining ... that is a very fair program from the East for us to be paired with. And it will be interesting to track the progress of Fleck vs Durkin over the first four years.

But anyway, the West schedule is static, Maryland is static, so the only variance over the first four years are the other two East opponents.

2017 - vs Mich St, at Mich
2018 - at Ohio St, vs Indiana
2019 - at Rutgers, vs Penn St
2020 - vs Mich, at Mich St

Yes it would seem on paper that 2020 is harder, though that assumes that Mich and Mich St remain top 25 type programs both. But I guess that's probably true.


We should schedule BAMA for that 2020 TBD non-conference game so that we can beat them again.

With BYU on the schedule being a defacto P5 game, would rather schedule another MAC team or even a FCS team.


Indeed, that is what Fleck said. I feel bad for this past senior class, which Fleck clearly couldn't have cared less about.
I don't believe Fleck tried to tank any games this year, but I do think he cared more about recruiting the next class than he did about coaching the team this past season.

After the losses to Maryland, Purdue, and Michigan St, it became obvious that going 8-4 in the regular season was not going to happen and even qualifying for a bowl was going to be close.

I agree that he decided to put more emphasis on the future and not worry as much about seniors who weren't "his players".


B]What year do you think we will have 3-4 good SR O-linemen??? And how many did we have in 2017? [/B]

Having four senior starting OL is putting all of your eggs into one basket. Not saying we shouldn't do that, if it comes to that. Just saying that it would be better to constantly have 2-3 guys who are three year starters, every year, on the OL.
 

Having four senior starting OL is putting all of your eggs into one basket. Not saying we shouldn't do that, if it comes to that. Just saying that it would be better to constantly have 2-3 guys who are three year starters, every year, on the OL.

What I meant by “starting” is “able to start”. As in, on the roster, healthy, eligible, able to play, etc.
I didn’t mean to suggest that a program, at its zenith, should have 4/5 linemen be SRs. Indeed, you want some younger guys contributing everywhere.

Minnesota’s lack of JR,SR and SO O-linemen is shocking. Particularly SR and JR. Minnesota lacked depth in other areas, but It would be hard to find a P5 program so thoroughly depleated of o-linemen.

The best fact-based way of understanding where we are at in the “re-build” cycle is to figure out when the depth chart will be replenished to the level of other teams in the conference.
 

What I meant by “starting” is “able to start”. As in, on the roster, healthy, eligible, able to play, etc.
I didn’t mean to suggest that a program, at its zenith, should have 4/5 linemen be SRs. Indeed, you want some younger guys contributing everywhere.

Minnesota’s lack of JR,SR and SO O-linemen is shocking. Particularly SR and JR. Minnesota lacked depth in other areas, but It would be hard to find a P5 program so thoroughly depleated of o-linemen.

The best fact-based way of understanding where we are at in the “re-build” cycle is to figure out when the depth chart will be replenished to the level of other teams in the conference.

Weyler and Greene are going to be SR, and Dickson (new JUCO), Dovich, and Oseland are going to be JR.

Not impossible that those five could be the starters next year. Though more than likely Olson and Schlueter will be there too.


We have 2 SR, 4 JR (now with Dickson), and 2 SO on the roster, noting that Kuehn retired but is still listed currently, and that Ben Davis is listed but I have no idea if he will be a factor at all and didn't play last year.

Then we have 12 RFR & FR, six each.

Pretty incredibly lopsided.
 

My biggest complaint is the Year Zero remarks. Such a negative connotation. You can phrase it differently and not piss people off. It’s a point of division that we just didn’t need.

If I have a mild complaint about Fleck, it's this. He has not chosen his words carefully. It's great to be exuberant, but how comments are framed--especially in this day and age--really needs to be taken into account.
 

To be honest, does anyone really think that Fleck said the "year zero" stuff with the intention of pissing off the seniors?? I don't think it was intended to be malicious.

But then, he should've apologized for it and explained that was not what he meant. And maybe he did indeed do that, behind closed doors.
 

Sure thing GM. All I hear now is how horrible our roster is. How obvious it is. What a terrible situation PJ inherited. How that previous QB everyone hated so was actually good. Lucky if they can tie their own shoes.

A poll on here before the season had the majority picking 8 wins. Vegas had o/u at 7.5, but now it is so obvious that PJ inherited such a "steaming pile of sh;t" that no rational person could have expected or should expect any success until 2020. "Check the roster." LOL. PJ keeps selling it and you keep buying it. I disagree.


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You really wanted to type "won 9 games last year" but you didn't.

Good job!
 

You really wanted to type "won 9 games last year" but you didn't.

Good job!

It has been months since I've compared anything PJ does to past coaches. You really need to pay better attention on who the posters are that keep doing that.


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