FSU may not be Bowl Eligible

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Doubt anything comes of this, but it is pretty interesting:

Overview
Florida State is scheduled to play in a record 36th consecutive bowl game, the Independence Bowl, against Southern Miss on December 27. Their 6-6 record includes a win over Delaware State, an FCS program. For an FCS opponent to be countable towards bowl eligibility, the FCS program must have awarded at least 90% of the FCS scholarship limit. After our own investigation, we have determined and confirmed that Delaware State has not met the 90% threshold set by the NCAA. As a result, Florida State's bowl countable record is 5-6, thus making them ineligible for a bowl game this season. At present, there are three other bowl eligible teams that were not offered a game and it would be unprecedented for a team to go bowling without either eligibility or a waiver while teams who are eligible stay home.

/r/CFB is the first to report on this after an extended investigation into the number of football scholarships at Delaware State. It is important to note that Delaware State is at no fault here, having complied with NCAA rules regarding scholarships and awards. Based on current NCAA rules, Florida State cannot count a win over Delaware State towards bowl eligibility. Given that the Independence Bowl is a week away, there are several options available with most resulting in Florida State playing in this bowl. However, if they do so, they may do so without being bowl eligible.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/7lac2l/fsu_may_not_be_bowl_eligible/
 

It does not mention the most likely outcome of this being "published":

the NCAA simply ignores this and it goes down in the record books that FL St had a 6-6, bowl eligible record at the end of the 2017 regular season, with Delaware St counting as a 90% team for bowl eligibility.



Thing to keep in mind here is the intention of rule. The intention was only to prevent FBS teams from scheduling low-end FCS teams. Because in that subdivision, there is a cohort that don't offer scholarships or offer far less than 90% of 63. It was those teams that the NCAA was trying to prevent from counting towards bowl eligibility.

But the NCAA is supposed to give a rat's behind that some internet fanboy emailed some people and figured out that Delaware St wasn't exactly at 90%, but was only at 87%? LOL no


Not only won't the NCAA require FSU to obtain a waiver, they won't even acknowledge this. And that's just fine.
 

Nothing will happen, nor should it. For one, it would involve cancelling the Independence Bowl; there would be no time to bring in another team. The NCAA isn't going to take the slightest notice. The intent is to keep teams from scheduling non-scholarship FCS schools. The most that will happen is that the NCAA will look at this for future seasons, and schools will have to look more carefully at the teams they schedule.
 

Yea, it's fine with me if they just let the game go on as planned. It's the Independence Bowl, not the national championship. I don't think the NCAA purposely got it wrong, I just think they don't really check it that closely. And I get it that rules are rules, but 87% vs 90% is like not even 2 full scholarships. It's not like they were WAY under.

And are we even 100% sure that this random person on Reddit has all their facts correct?
 

The person’s data on Delaware St — the entire crux of the post — is claimed to have been emailed by someone within some admin dept at the school.
 


MnplsGopher said:
The person’s data on Delaware St — the entire crux of the post — is claimed to have been emailed by someone within some admin dept at the school.
Click to expand...

Right. I saw that. I have no data to refute what this author is saying, or no reason to think they are lying. But...it's still Reddit. Any source where you are about two clicks away from homemade porn or discussions about whether minions exist in real life must be viewed with a bit of skepticism.
 


bizzle22 said:
Yea, it's fine with me if they just let the game go on as planned. It's the Independence Bowl, not the national championship. I don't think the NCAA purposely got it wrong, I just think they don't really check it that closely. And I get it that rules are rules, but 87% vs 90% is like not even 2 full scholarships. It's not like they were WAY under.

And are we even 100% sure that this random person on Reddit has all their facts correct?
Click to expand...

I agree with the bolded part and think that is the key. FSU scheduled this game like 10 years ago (probably not quite, but you get my drift). They probably were at or above 90% that year and most years. They probably had one or two kids drop out and ended up slightly under. The NCAA should just give a waiver if it's true (even though it is almost a non-issue) just to set the record straight that FSU did nothing wrong.

Now if it turns out Delaware St. has been consistently under 90%, then that's a different story. But it seems like it's probably just a coincidence rather than an intentional situation on anyone's part.

Of course, it brings up the bigger question of whether FCS games should count at all, but that's a different argument.
 

FCS games should not count towards bowl eligibility. My $0.02
 



So far no one has produced any evidence that the win should count.
No way should FSU be playing in this game. They had no business scheduling Delaware State in the first place.
 

Unregistered User said:
Doubt anything comes of this, but it is pretty interesting:

Overview
Florida State is scheduled to play in a record 36th consecutive bowl game, the Independence Bowl, against Southern Miss on December 27. Their 6-6 record includes a win over Delaware State, an FCS program. For an FCS opponent to be countable towards bowl eligibility, the FCS program must have awarded at least 90% of the FCS scholarship limit. After our own investigation, we have determined and confirmed that Delaware State has not met the 90% threshold set by the NCAA. As a result, Florida State's bowl countable record is 5-6, thus making them ineligible for a bowl game this season. At present, there are three other bowl eligible teams that were not offered a game and it would be unprecedented for a team to go bowling without either eligibility or a waiver while teams who are eligible stay home.

/r/CFB is the first to report on this after an extended investigation into the number of football scholarships at Delaware State. It is important to note that Delaware State is at no fault here, having complied with NCAA rules regarding scholarships and awards. Based on current NCAA rules, Florida State cannot count a win over Delaware State towards bowl eligibility. Given that the Independence Bowl is a week away, there are several options available with most resulting in Florida State playing in this bowl. However, if they do so, they may do so without being bowl eligible.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/7lac2l/fsu_may_not_be_bowl_eligible/
Click to expand...

I’ve asked you this before, but what is your reddit username. I swear I’ll add you to my friends and not downboat
 

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

Cleveland St. will not be able to play in their bowl game now, right?
 



bigtenchamps1899 said:
I’ve asked you this before, but what is your reddit username. I swear I’ll add you to my friends and not downboat
Click to expand...

Yeah...no thanks. Nothing personal But I'll give you a hint. I'm tagged as verified media. I mostly lurk there, and don't post much.
 

The Independence Bowl pays out about $1.5 million. That's $1.5 million that I'm sure Western Michigan, Buffalo, or UTSA would love to have. If I were them, I would sue the NCAA.
 

Delaware State is rated on Sagarin as #247 out of 254. According to Sagarin, the Gophers would be 58 point favorites. I do think the rules could be tightened up on some of these games. But there doesn't need to be proof that they are eligible, there needs to be proof they aren't eligible, and a post on Redit doesn't give that proof. This would have had to come out a while ago for it to have had any impact.
 

Goldmember said:
So far no one has produced any evidence that the win should count.
No way should FSU be playing in this game. They had no business scheduling Delaware State in the first place.
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Why not? Alabama had their tough game vs Mercer last month. The victory kept them in the playoff hunt. Fair is fair.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

What a joke.

I guess it was far, far too much to hope for in the internet age that some fanboy post on friggin' Reddit could just be ignored. National media picked it up ... and why wouldn't they. They have no loyalty to anything except the maximum number of clicks, views, and reads they can garner.

Hopefully this will simply be shooed away with some hand-waive-y statement to the effect of "the NCAA doesn't give a crap that Delaware State was at 87% instead of 90%. Go away,"
 

MnplsGopher said:
What a joke.

I guess it was far, far too much to hope for in the internet age that some fanboy post on friggin' Reddit could just be ignored. National media picked it up ... and why wouldn't they. They have no loyalty to anything except the maximum number of clicks, views, and reads they can garner.

Hopefully this will simply be shooed away with some hand-waive-y statement to the effect of "the NCAA doesn't give a crap that Delaware State was at 87% instead of 90%. Go away,"
Click to expand...

The key to me is that it's 87%, not 0% or 5% or 20%.

Think of it like this - say the train with the recruit last year happened earlier and the investigation got done during the season and decided to expel all 8 players. The U was already at 81 scholarships according to TDG's scholarship grid. Those expulsions would have left them below 90% at the end of the season. I realize the U is FBS so it doesn't apply, but my point is a school like Delaware St. could literally be put in a situation where if they kick a kid or two off the team they are no longer at 90%. Then whatever team is paying them $700,000 or whatever now can't count the win, they aren't going to want to pay. They rely too much on that money to want to risk losing that game. Now they have to weigh whether they can afford to kick the kid off or not? That should never happen where they have to weigh scholastic integrity vs. trying to get a paycheck.

If this all turns out to be true, I do wonder if this will push the NCAA to either drop the 90% requirement (since Delaware St. was close and still one of the worst teams) or to not count FCS.
 

MnplsGopher said:
What a joke... Hopefully this will simply be shooed away with some hand-waive-y statement to the effect of "the NCAA doesn't give a crap that Delaware State was at 87% instead of 90%. Go away,"
Click to expand...

The source of the info is DSU. I don’t care who leaked it or what platform they used. The only joke here is Florida State. Why are they playing teams that are struggling to even stay at the FCS level? Of course, the reason is to inflate their record. The ACC and SEC are all horrible with their buffet of cupcakes to avoid being “a 2-loss team”. But FSU is absolutely the worst offender and has been for years. It’s great someone finally called them out on it.

Every minute of practice they have had after 12/2 has been cheating. Of course the NCAA isn’t going to stop it. They have no power to enforce their own rules. And this is the only rule they have to discourage P5 teams from scheduling cupcakes that they have no business playing (something pretty much everyone supports).

The NCAA overlooking this is just a countinuation of it’s inability to enforce any sort of rules or standards with the most “powerful” institutions.
 


Goldmember said:
The source of the info is DSU. I don’t care who leaked it or what platform they used. The only joke here is Florida State. Why are they playing teams that are struggling to even stay at the FCS level? Of course, the reason is to inflate their record. The ACC and SEC are all horrible with their buffet of cupcakes to avoid being “a 2-loss team”. But FSU is absolutely the worst offender and has been for years. It’s great someone finally called them out on it.

Every minute of practice they have had after 12/2 has been cheating. Of course the NCAA isn’t going to stop it. They have no power to enforce their own rules. And this is the only rule they have to discourage P5 teams from scheduling cupcakes that they have no business playing (something pretty much everyone supports).

The NCAA overlooking this is just a countinuation of it’s inability to enforce any sort of rules or standards with the most “powerful” institutions.
Click to expand...

The actual reason you're railing against them, and the system, is a much bigger overall argument. It's an argument I agree with actually, that FBS teams should not be allowed to inflate their records with wins over FCS teams.

That's all well and good.


But for this exact minutia technicality, you're just dead wrong. The NCAA does NOT, nor does anyone else, give a crap that Delaware St averaged 87% of the maximum instead of 90%. Delaware St didn't cheat. Florida St didn't cheat. The system did exactly what it was intended to do: prevent Florida St from scheduling a non-scholarship FCS school, instead of a full-scholarship FCS school.

Case closed.
 

bizzle22 said:
Sounds like everything was legit.

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...inoles-confirm-bowl-eligibility-amid-scrutiny
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From the link:

However, Florida State said the information gathered did not include academic scholarships, which are allowed to count toward the overall scholarship total.

"Florida State has received confirmation from Delaware State that the 90 percent requirement is satisfied for the 2017 season, allowing the victory to be used in determining bowl eligibility," the school said in the statement. "Media reports suggesting otherwise failed to account for a long-standing NCAA rules interpretation that permits institutions to use academic scholarships and other forms of non-athletics institutional aid received by student-athletes in the computation of this requirement. These media reports represent incomplete information, as they only reflect athletics scholarships received."
Click to expand...


Boom.

Fake news.

Case closed.
 

And in review: Delaware St, and the rest of schools, should have internal training to teach their staffers to ignore anonymous, unsolicited emails asking for information. If someone has a legitimate reason to be obtaining that information, it will present itself in a form other than an anonymous, unsolicited email.

For cripes -- just because someone sends and email from some gmail account, does not mean you have to answer it!
 

MnplsGopher said:
The actual reason you're railing against them, and the system, is a much bigger overall argument. It's an argument I agree with actually, that FBS teams should not be allowed to inflate their records with wins over FCS teams.

That's all well and good.
Click to expand...

You’re right. I like that FSU had to respond. And that there was a 24-hour sports news cycle that brought attention to the fact that they scheduled one of the worst FCS programs (which FSU is known for).

I don’t think the 87% vs. 90% matters much. But I do think the intent of the rule was (at least originally) to limit FBS vs. FCS games to opponents like Appalachian State and NDSU. I think it was not to avoid the 0%, but to limit it to the 100%.

But, yeah, you’re right. I like any news that sheds any light on how soft most SEC and ACC schedules are compared to The BigTen and Pac12.
 

That is another point to make ... that there are some seriously legit, competitive FCS teams that FBS teams could be scheduling. And instead, they schedule teams that technically are full scholarship (meeting the 90% threshold) but on the field are really quite bad.

In fact, two of the conferences in FCS that were meant to be the targets of the rule -- non-scholarship Pioneer League, and low(er)-scholarship NEC -- were given auto-bids to the playoffs when it expanded to 24 teams. And those league's top team is actually reasonably competitive on the field, with the lower level of the playoff bracket.



So that really pushes the point: I think the rule needs to change. I could see it going one of three ways:

- make the rule simply allow one FCS team, regardless of conference or scholarships, to count for bowl eligibility
- prevent any FCS team from counting for bowl eligibility
- tie the counting status of the FCS team to its record over some rolling number of years


The last one probably is a non-starter, because FBS teams (especially P5) schedule non-conf games many years in the future.
 


Ski U Master said:
Please don't use this term.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what happened. Beautiful term for it:

fake 1 (fāk)
adj.
Having a false or misleading appearance; fraudulent.
n.
One that is not authentic or genuine; a sham.

v.tr.
1. To contrive and present as genuine; counterfeit
2. To simulate; feign:

To engage in feigning, simulation, or other deceptive activity.
 

highwayman said:
This is exactly what happened. Beautiful term for it:

fake 1 (fāk)
adj.
Having a false or misleading appearance; fraudulent.
n.
One that is not authentic or genuine; a sham.

v.tr.
1. To contrive and present as genuine; counterfeit
2. To simulate; feign:

To engage in feigning, simulation, or other deceptive activity.
Click to expand...
"Fake news" is its own term that carries with it a bias against any reporting that someone doesn't agree with, and accuses media sources of intentionally fabricating news. This was inaccurate reporting, but I don't see anywhere that there was malicious intent or an agenda behind it. And lest we forget this didn't come from a media source, it was a guy that posted it on reddit. No different than the "scoops" people post on this site.
 

Goldmember said:
You’re right. I like that FSU had to respond. And that there was a 24-hour sports news cycle that brought attention to the fact that they scheduled one of the worst FCS programs (which FSU is known for).

I don’t think the 87% vs. 90% matters much. But I do think the intent of the rule was (at least originally) to limit FBS vs. FCS games to opponents like Appalachian State and NDSU. I think it was not to avoid the 0%, but to limit it to the 100%.

But, yeah, you’re right. I like any news that sheds any light on how soft most SEC and ACC schedules are compared to The BigTen and Pac12.
Click to expand...

Appalachian St. isn't FCS. They finished 9-4, pounded 11-2 Toledo 34-0 in their bowl game, and would be favored against the Gophers on a neutral field.
 

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