Grading the first-year college football coaches (P.J. Fleck, Minnesota: C-)




I think just the title "grading first year coaches" kinda implies it is going to be hyper speculative to the point of irrelevance.
 

Fleck had a poor season. We have to live with it. Next year will be a real test of him and his system.
 


Not sure how you can disageee with this if you consider a C average.
If you consider a B average than he is probably a B-

I'm not saying I disagree with it. This kind of stuff just gets old. Anybody can have an opinion. There's too many gradings on coaches and players and teams and none of it matters.
 

As noted, anyone can have an opinion.

It is interesting to get an outside view. Here on the Hole, I suspect there are time when both sides of a debate (any debate) get so entrenched that they can't see the forest for the trees.

So, at the very least, it can be informative to hear what people think who are viewing the matter from the outside. You are free to agree or disagree with the writer's point of view and conclusions.

Last year, Fleck was the hot young coach. Now, he's something else, and there is a new hot young coach. That is the nature of the beast.
 

If his grade was a D or F I'd be worried about his future here. It wasn't, so it's ok he got a C- there's plenty of room for improvement.


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If you read the whole article it is pretty hard to disagree with any of it. Even though the Purdue and Indiana coaches graded out better Fleck said from the get go that year one was a throw away season in order to establish his culture. When his culture results in a 13-0 season there is not much to get upset about.
 




If you read the whole article it is pretty hard to disagree with any of it. Even though the Purdue and Indiana coaches graded out better Fleck said from the get go that year one was a throw away season in order to establish his culture. When his culture results in a 13-0 season there is not much to get upset about.
When do you predict Minnesota will have that 13-0 season?
 

If you read the whole article it is pretty hard to disagree with any of it. Even though the Purdue and Indiana coaches graded out better Fleck said from the get go that year one was a throw away season in order to establish his culture. When his culture results in a 13-0 season there is not much to get upset about.

So I guess we can look for him to have the best recruiting class in the big ten this year. and next year. That's how he did it in the MAC. Out recruited everyone.

According to 24/7 we have either the best class in the west (rank on players to date of which we have more than everyone else) or the 4th best class in the west (based on average player rating). That would be 6th overall and 10th overall for those of you keeping score at home. We'll see where we net out, but the results are not matching the hype on or off the field in year zero.
 

I will be very surprised if PJ stays the same or goes backwards record wise. We are going to get better. We might eventually even win 9 games.
 



So I guess we can look for him to have the best recruiting class in the big ten this year. and next year. That's how he did it in the MAC. Out recruited everyone.

According to 24/7 we have either the best class in the west (rank on players to date of which we have more than everyone else) or the 4th best class in the west (based on average player rating). That would be 6th overall and 10th overall for those of you keeping score at home. We'll see where we net out, but the results are not matching the hype on or off the field in year zero.

If this class finishes like it appears it could, Fleck will have put together an incredible class in less than a years time. That is crazy good. An IMG pipeline speeds success.
 

If you read the whole article it is pretty hard to disagree with any of it. Even though the Purdue and Indiana coaches graded out better Fleck said from the get go that year one was a throw away season in order to establish his culture. When his culture results in a 13-0 season there is not much to get upset about.

I disagree. Every player who ever signs on and plays football for the University of Minnesota is owed the opportunity by their coach to compete to the fullest and try to win every game. I would bet that this year's seniors don't appreciate that this was a throw away season.

I will of course be very happy if we go 13-0 some day, but I will still be upset that we underachieved this season and at any implication that we didn't try our utmost to prioritize winning games over building "culture" or other nonsense buzzwords.
 

So I guess we can look for him to have the best recruiting class in the big ten this year. and next year. That's how he did it in the MAC. Out recruited everyone.

They also had to play the games in the MAC. Going to say coaching also had something to do with Fleck’s success.

Also it’s been pointed out a hundred other times Fleck does not need to out recruit the whole B1G. Recruiting should be compared to how he does to the other teams in B1G West.
 

I disagree. Every player who ever signs on and plays football for the University of Minnesota is owed the opportunity by their coach to compete to the fullest and try to win every game. I would bet that this year's seniors don't appreciate that this was a throw away season.

I will of course be very happy if we go 13-0 some day, but I will still be upset that we underachieved this season and at any implication that we didn't try our utmost to prioritize winning games over building "culture" or other nonsense buzzwords.

Is it possible that focusing time and energy on things that build the structure of a program could lead to more success in future seasons, while focusing solely on winning games in the present could sacrifice future success?
 

Fleck never said it was a "throw away season." He said that doing the right things in the culture will result in wins. "We deserved what we got."

Fans have said it was a throw away season.

This is not HS or Youth sports, the players know that coaches have culture and are all about building it.
 

Is it possible that focusing time and energy on things that build the structure of a program could lead to more success in future seasons, while focusing solely on winning games in the present could sacrifice future success?

Reasonable positions regarding Coach Fleck are not allowed on this board. You either have to have RTB glasses on or else you have to criticize and nit-pick everything he does.
 

Reasonable positions regarding Coach Fleck are not allowed on this board. You either have to have RTB glasses on or else you have to criticize and nit-pick everything he does.

Yeah, this coaching change has definitely polarized the fan base. I think there is a middle ground out there but it has been shocking to see the number of people in here that are convinced that the coaches were not trying to win games based on Fleck looking at the big picture and saying the results of this year won't matter in the grad scheme of things.
 

GFBfan;1487088[B said:
]If his grade was a D or F I'd be worried about his future here.[/B] It wasn't, so it's ok he got a C- there's plenty of room for improvement.


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If you read the whole article, he says he doesn't give out Fs. " I don’t give out “F” grades [...]" Thus, a D- and F are the same.
 

Is it possible that focusing time and energy on things that build the structure of a program could lead to more success in future seasons, while focusing solely on winning games in the present could sacrifice future success?

No, they're not mutually exclusive. I also didn't say "focusing solely."

This is the false dichotomy that's consistently set up - "struggle now to win big later." The problem with this agenda is that you don't have to struggle now to win big later. It is possible to win small now and win big later.
 

Yeah, this coaching change has definitely polarized the fan base. I think there is a middle ground out there but it has been shocking to see the number of people in here that are convinced that the coaches were not trying to win games based on Fleck looking at the big picture and saying the results of this year won't matter in the grad scheme of things.

I'm convinced that the coaches were not trying to win games by watching every second of every game - 8 in person, 4 on TV. In doing so (saying they were not trying to win games), I'm attempting to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they aren't horrible coaches. If they were giving it their best effort in certain games this year (Maryland, Northwestern, wisconsin), then yikes - they are not good coaches and won't be here very long anyway.
 

I'm convinced that the coaches were not trying to win games by watching every second of every game - 8 in person, 4 on TV. In doing so (saying they were not trying to win games), I'm attempting to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they aren't horrible coaches. If they were giving it their best effort in certain games this year (Maryland, Northwestern, wisconsin), then yikes - they are not good coaches and won't be here very long anyway.

So they screwed up and won 5, will toss those out I guess. Of the 7 loses, 5 of them came against teams that just flat out had better personnel then us (especially on offense) in MSU, Iowa, Northwestern, Michigan and Wisconsin. We managed to stay close with Iowa but were clearly outgunned against MSU, Michigan and Wisconsin. Northwestern was a horrible matchup with the weather and the fact that they were very good against the run and bad against the pass.

So in the end it still all comes back to Purdue and Maryland. Looking at the way Purdue played this year I think Claeys would have lost to them as well given the players he would have had to work with. The Maryland loss is maybe the one that can be pinned on the coaches in terms of scheme and how they were using the players they had to work with.

You don't see many teams have good seasons when they get next to nothing out of the QB position. So yeah, there are always things coaches can do different but with the personnel available I really don't think our record would have been much different with the old staff in charge. But obviously there is no way to prove this just like there is no way to prove they were trying to lose outside of your opinion based on what you saw on the field and assumed about the coaches.
 

No, they're not mutually exclusive. I also didn't say "focusing solely."

This is the false dichotomy that's consistently set up - "struggle now to win big later." The problem with this agenda is that you don't have to struggle now to win big later. It is possible to win small now and win big later.

I think we did win small to (hopefully) win big later.
 

Also it’s been pointed out a hundred other times Fleck does not need to out recruit the whole B1G. Recruiting should be compared to how he does to the other teams in B1G West.

And why exactly is this?


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And why exactly is this?


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Because it is crazy to expect any Gopher coach to recruit (based on recruiting service rankings) on par with Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State. We don't have the name recognition or local talent base to recruit on their level.

It is 100% fair to expect the Gophers to recruit at the level of schools like Wisconsin, Iowa, Northwestern.....If anyones standard for recruiting success is a class ranked in the top 3 in the conference year in and year out then they are going to always be disappointed.
 

So they screwed up and won 5, will toss those out I guess. Of the 7 loses, 5 of them came against teams that just flat out had better personnel then us (especially on offense) in MSU, Iowa, Northwestern, Michigan and Wisconsin. We managed to stay close with Iowa but were clearly outgunned against MSU, Michigan and Wisconsin. Northwestern was a horrible matchup with the weather and the fact that they were very good against the run and bad against the pass.

So in the end it still all comes back to Purdue and Maryland. Looking at the way Purdue played this year I think Claeys would have lost to them as well given the players he would have had to work with. The Maryland loss is maybe the one that can be pinned on the coaches in terms of scheme and how they were using the players they had to work with.

You don't see many teams have good seasons when they get next to nothing out of the QB position. So yeah, there are always things coaches can do different but with the personnel available I really don't think our record would have been much different with the old staff in charge. But obviously there is no way to prove this just like there is no way to prove they were trying to lose outside of your opinion based on what you saw on the field and assumed about the coaches.

You continue to rip on Demry (along with everyone else) while defending every faux pas from PJ. It s curious.

Over the final 4 games Demry was 18/47. Conservatively there were at least 10 bad drops; IIRC Burns said 18 (which may be including some tough catches). 28/47 is about a 60% completion rate. The INT at the goal line that should have been a TD would have altered the INT to TD ratio to 5 vs 6. Not good, but Mitch-like.

Taken all together his stats weren’t great but not nearly as catastrophic as you imply. It’s a team game and this was a bad team.

PJs missteps have been well documented. Mailing it in vs Maryland on both side is the ball. Failing to take advantage of 4 Purdue turnovers and refusing to play a healthy player on the most critical drive of the game. Laying up in the second half of the NW, Mich, Wis games, presumably to keep the score down and end the games quicker. We could go on but you don’t want to hear it. I get it.
 

And why exactly is this?


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Well let's see. Getting to the B1G Championship game the Gophers would have to win the B1G West. According to some around here the only reason Fleck won in the MAC is because he out recruited everyone else. Now based on that spectacular theory if Fleck out recruits the B1G West he will win the division based on recruiting alone and then the Gophers play in the B1G Championship.

I assume even you with PJ Fleck as the coach would take winning the B1G West and playing for the B1G Championship.
 




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