Three kids that will grow up by March

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Uncle Rico said:
but last night, to me, was one of the rare times I could actually say IW single handedly lost that game for us.
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I mean...I hope there aren't other times you think he lost the game for the Gophers
 

He is also a very smart kid. He knows the game well, he knows where everyone on the court should be. That is why Pitino likes him on the court especially with the second unit. But I agree he is not quick enough to guard future NBA 3's. I think we will see continued improvement in him over the next 2 1/2 years.
 


UpAndUnder43 said:
I mean...I hope there aren't other times you think he lost the game for the Gophers
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What i meant to write it is one of the few times I'd say one guy (in this case IW) literally cost his team the game......but I think you knew exactly what I meant.
 

Uncle Rico said:
What i meant to write it is one of the few times I'd say one guy (in this case IW) literally cost his team the game......but I think you knew exactly what I meant.
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Your opinion isn't accurate. I can point to many other areas where we didn't finish or we had a defensive breakdown that was not Jelly's fault.
Miami did a good job of exploiting some defensive weaknesses.
This game will be an excellent teaching lesson in the film room for the entire team. No one person is responsible for last night's loss.
What I hope for is a second chance against the Canes in March, because I think our upside is better than Miami over the flow of the entire season.
 


MennoSota said:
Your opinion isn't accurate. I can point to many other areas where we didn't finish or we had a defensive breakdown that was not Jelly's fault.
Miami did a good job of exploiting some defensive weaknesses.
This game will be an excellent teaching lesson in the film room for the entire team. No one person is responsible for last night's loss.
What I hope for is a second chance against the Canes in March, because I think our upside is better than Miami over the flow of the entire season.
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I agree 100%.
 

MennoSota said:
Your opinion isn't accurate. I can point to many other areas where we didn't finish or we had a defensive breakdown that was not Jelly's fault.
Miami did a good job of exploiting some defensive weaknesses.
This game will be an excellent teaching lesson in the film room for the entire team. No one person is responsible for last night's loss.
What I hope for is a second chance against the Canes in March, because I think our upside is better than Miami over the flow of the entire season.
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But yours is? Now I understand.

Maybe you could help me be less critical of him. Were there facets of his game that you thought were a net positive for the team last night?
 

Uncle Rico said:
But yours is? Now I understand.

Maybe you could help me be less critical of him. Were there facets of his game that you thought were a net positive for the team last night?
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Yes. Jelly can create his own shot. Once he learns how to let those spots open up, he'll be lightning in a bottle rather than playing out of control.
He had at least one nice steal on defense and a strip in transition that stopped a basket.
He's young, but he's gonna be a h3ll of a player for the Gophers.
 

MennoSota said:
Yes. Jelly can create his own shot. Once he learns how to let those spots open up, he'll be lightning in a bottle rather than playing out of control.
He had at least one nice steal on defense and a strip in transition that stopped a basket.
He's young, but he's gonna be a h3ll of a player for the Gophers.
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So basically nothing was a net gain then last night? I believe i echoed your big picture view in my first post on this. He just played an awful game. Period. And Pitino couldnt really pull him. It was too bad.

We will all move on and he could be a star in the future but he was clearly in over his head last night. I gather he's a good kid so I am hopeful he will learn quickly from the tough days.
 



Jury is still out for me on whether I believe Hurt will turn into anything. I'm not sure he can compete athletically against high-end competition. He doesn't seem to have the confidence to take the few open looks he gets.

Washington is awful. He can't shoot from the perimeter. He seems to avoid contact when he goes to rim and throws up ridulous shots with his back to the basket, so he's not getting to line (which should be his biggest strength with his body control and ability to take guys off the dribble). Even if he does get to the line, he can't shoot free throws. He can't defend or rebound. He doesn't move the ball at all. He's an absolute black hole. He's one of the farthest things from a fundamentally sound player that I've ever seen playing this much at this level. It's clear that he's neglected those parts of his game and has chosen to be Hot Sauce in lieu (how can you ball handle like that, but not make a freaking free throw?). Maybe he'll get better, but I'm not sure why so many are just assuming he's going to turn into a first-teamer. This kid is a massive project.

Not sure what to think of Harris at this point. The perimeter shot is there, which this team desperately needs. But, he's a total liability in all other facets at this point.

I, for one, hopped on the "Final Four team," bandwagon a little too soon. This team just isn't at that level, especially if there is an injury to the regular starting 5.

Good team. They'll have a great season, and I'll still enjoy the hell out of it. But that game last night kind of changed my outlook on this team's ability to compete with the elite programs. I don't think Miami is as good as we made them look last night, and not sure they're a top 10 squad come tourney time. All you have to do is take away Murphy with double teams, like they did in the second half, and we become much easier to beat.
 

Uncle Rico said:
So basically nothing was a net gain then last night? I believe i echoed your big picture view in my first post on this. He just played an awful game. Period. And Pitino couldnt really pull him. It was too bad.

We will all move on and he could be a star in the future but he was clearly in over his head last night. I gather he's a good kid so I am hopeful he will learn quickly from the tough days.
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So why are you ripping on the kid?
 

Hurt reminds me of Isaiah Dahlman. He won't be a starter, but he will work hard and give some solid minutes.
 

jrock said:
So why are you ripping on the kid?
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Because i posted that it could be claimed that he single handedly cost them the game and was informed in a smug way that my opinion was wrong, period.

Why cant we just admit that he's not the immediate savior so many thought he was gonna be? That was hot garbage last night. U dont think the other 4 guys on the floor were saying to themselves "pass the ball"?
 



Okay. Legitimate. But you don't think that IW knows this? Why rip on him anymore? This game is over.

I'm quite certain that his teammates have given him their opinions.
 

Uncle Rico said:
Because i posted that it could be claimed that he single handedly cost them the game and was informed in a smug way that my opinion was wrong, period.

Why cant we just admit that he's not the immediate savior so many thought he was gonna be? That was hot garbage last night. U dont think the other 4 guys on the floor were saying to themselves "pass the ball"?
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Sorry, who ever said Washington was going to be an immediate savior on a team with 5 starters coming back?
Washington made his freshman mistakes, but you are spewing hyperbole by saying he single handedly lost the game for us.
You're wrong.
 

die hard gopher said:
Last years team was excellent in terms of defending the 3 and there is no reason why that won't be the case with this team as the year goes on. As for shooting the 3, I'd much rather rely on pounding the ball down low with our bigs and our guards attacking the basket as our primary offense than on 3's. All it takes is one shooting off night to fall in the tourney. Thats usually not the case with scoring most of your points in the paint as it's much more consistent. Right now, given our offensive makeup, the level of 3 point shooting is fine IMO. Nothing elite but it's not going to be the reason we lose.
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That's a good take, I agree. Also I saw Providence has ripped off some nice wins since they lost to the Gophers. Overall a tough non-con schedule that will help down the road.
 

Uncle Rico said:
Because i posted that it could be claimed that he single handedly cost them the game and was informed in a smug way that my opinion was wrong, period.

Why cant we just admit that he's not the immediate savior so many thought he was gonna be? That was hot garbage last night. U dont think the other 4 guys on the floor were saying to themselves "pass the ball"?
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Cannot disagree with this. Washington was terrible against Miami. Yes, he is a freshman, and I really love his potential, but he was bad last night.

My biggest issue is that he needs to understand his role and the pecking order of the team. Mason, Murphy, Coffey, McBrayer, and Lynch need to eat first. An unproven freshman should not be leading an experienced team in shots taken.

Learning curve is steep.
 

A Stuffed Badger said:
Hurt: Can't guard his own shadow, and that won't improve as the year goes on. He's just too slow and is a liability on both ends of the floor.
Harris: Not bad for a freshman, but will need a couple years to develop. His game just isn't there yet and he gets lost on defense.
IW: Can get any shot he wants, but struggling to shoot the ball. I imagine he improves by 5-10% from shooting, as it hasn't been good.

Basically, without Curry and McBrayer the team is too shallow. Next year we're bringing in some good athletes though, should solve the depth problem. Props to Miami for shooting the lights out, but with McBrayer I think we win that game.
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I agree 100% on Hurt. Honestly, he should really be playing at St. Cloud or somewhere along those lines. Just waaaaaaay too slow, and doesn't bring anything to the table. That's why you don't spend a scholly on a kid in hopes of getting his brother. If they didn't do it for that reason, then it was just a bad offer. I understand he was a highly ranked player within the state at the time, but that was clearly a mistake.
 

Gopherboner said:
I agree 100% on Hurt. Honestly, he should really be playing at St. Cloud or somewhere along those lines. Just waaaaaaay too slow, and doesn't bring anything to the table. That's why you don't spend a scholly on a kid in hopes of getting his brother. If they didn't do it for that reason, then it was just a bad offer. I understand he was a highly ranked player within the state at the time, but that was clearly a mistake.
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Yeah, because there's definitely not a level in between "outplayed by Miami" and "should be at St. Cloud" (such as "nice 8th man who has given us really good minutes already early into his sophomore year, for example at Providence in a tough game")? This is a ridiculous overreaction to one poor performance early in a kid's career.
 


fryguy22 said:
Yeah, because there's definitely not a level in between "outplayed by Miami" and "should be at St. Cloud" (such as "nice 8th man who has given us really good minutes already early into his sophomore year, for example at Providence in a tough game")? This is a ridiculous overreaction to one poor performance early in a kid's career.
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+1000 The statement you replied to was preposterous

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MennoSota said:
Your opinion isn't accurate. I can point to many other areas where we didn't finish or we had a defensive breakdown that was not Jelly's fault.
Miami did a good job of exploiting some defensive weaknesses.
This game will be an excellent teaching lesson in the film room for the entire team. No one person is responsible for last night's loss.
What I hope for is a second chance against the Canes in March, because I think our upside is better than Miami over the flow of the entire season.
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I agree that other people made mistakes, but I would argue that if Washington would have approached the game differently and came into the game with the mentality that he was going to give what the defense gave him rather than trying to score as many points as he could, we would have won the game.
 

Block M said:
Cannot disagree with this. Washington was terrible against Miami. Yes, he is a freshman, and I really love his potential, but he was bad last night.

My biggest issue is that he needs to understand his role and the pecking order of the team. Mason, Murphy, Coffey, McBrayer, and Lynch need to eat first. An unproven freshman should not be leading an experienced team in shots taken.

Learning curve is steep.
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This. 100% this. Love Washington's potential and am glad he's on the team, but this is something he needs to understand if this team is to reach its potential.
 

Keyser Söze said:
I agree that other people made mistakes, but I would argue that if Washington would have approached the game differently and came into the game with the mentality that he was going to give what the defense gave him rather than trying to score as many points as he could, we would have won the game.
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This is certainly one theory.
If Washington had made the shots...we would have won the game. There are many ifs that would have secured the win.
 

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