Glen Mason Territory

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Pete smith said:
Go back and read my post. I said Gordy Shaw was the best line coach in America. Certainly the best in Minn. history, at least for 50 years I have watched Gopher football. You probably aren't old enough to even remember Coach Mason 's team. Check with your Dad assuming he is/was a Gopher fan.
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Oh boy Pete. Be prepared for a well articulated takedown in the near future...
 

Pete smith said:
Go back and read my post. I said Gordy Shaw was the best line coach in America. Certainly the best in Minn. history, at least for 50 years I have watched Gopher football. You probably aren't old enough to even remember Coach Mason 's team. Check with your Dad assuming he is/was a Gopher fan.
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I'm old enough to remember Warmath's teams and his O-lines were even better than Mason's. I think what dpo and I (and others) are saying is that if Shaw were this wizard, he'd be coaching at a helmet school instead of CSU-Pueblo. That's not a direct slap at Shaw. He did well in Minnesota. A lot of things came together during his tenure here and he contributed to that success. But that's beside the point.
 

Pete smith said:
Go back and read my post. I said Gordy Shaw was the best line coach in America. Certainly the best in Minn. history, at least for 50 years I have watched Gopher football. You probably aren't old enough to even remember Coach Mason 's team. Check with your Dad assuming he is/was a Gopher fan.
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DURR HURR HURR great comeback!!!1!!1!

Gordy Shaw was (at best) an average Big Ten OL coach who took advantage of some great players and had great RBs who made his line look good. There's a reason that a middling Minnesota team was the best job he ever had.
 

Some guy said:
Mason went to 7 bowls in 8 years before his firing.
We fired him because he wasn’t making the next step.

The point of the article is that it is a tragic mistake.

Which I’d say it wasn’t. We have been to bowls in 7/11 since he left. Though overall we haven’t been quite as consistent as the mason era. I’ll sacrifice 2-3 music city bowls for a chance at improving. So far we have costed ourself 2-3 medium bowls and not achieved greatness. I’ll survive.
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That his teams didn't make the next step was the maddening part. He was so damn close twice; the 1999 team was an OT loss vs. Wisconsin away from a tie for conference champs and the 2003 team was an epic blown lead vs. Michigan away from another tie for the championship. I still get down about those games.
 

#2Gopher said:
Very true. He also burned bridges with coaches and some players he was recruiting. I'm sure he has learned, but the public is always slow to forgive.
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Yeah. And despite the major mistake that was Brewster we honestly probably only cost ourselves an extra 2-3 music city/insight bowls over the last dozen years
 



Billy M said:
How many more whiffs will it take before the U of M makes contact?
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University Alabama - 7 Whiffs and 1 Interim Coach

19 Paul Bryant
20 Ray Perkins
21 Bill Curry
22 Gene Stallings
23 Mike DuBose
24 Dennis Franchione
25 Mike Price
26 Mike Shula
Int Joe Kines
27 Nick Saban

Notre Dame, Tennessee, Nebraska, UCLA, and Miami have all had at least 4 or 5 whiffs plus interim coaches in their recent histories. Hiring a program changing college football coach is not as easy as some people want to believe.
 

Cruze said:
University Alabama - 7 Whiffs and 1 Interim Coach

19 Paul Bryant
20 Ray Perkins
21 Bill Curry
22 Gene Stallings
23 Mike DuBose
24 Dennis Franchione
25 Mike Price
26 Mike Shula
Int Joe Kines
27 Nick Saban

Notre Dame, Tennessee, Nebraska, UCLA, and Miami have all had at least 4 or 5 whiffs plus interim coaches in their recent histories. Hiring a program changing college football coach is not as easy as some people want to believe.
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Gene Stallings, the Hall of Fame coach who won a national title, was a "whiff"? Great post.
 

I was soooooo tired of seeing him at the end of another 3-5 or 4-4 season getting interviewed, not giving a ****, smiling and saying "It's tough to win in the Big Ten". No ****? That's why coaches get paid handsomely and work hard. He gave up at the end and didn't work hard enough, end of story.

We never would have won a B10 title or division title with him. I know that we haven't yet, but at least I have hope we can reach higher. I had no hope for the future with Glen.
 



MNVCGUY said:
They had a plan, it was to go as cheap as they could with the replacement by hiring an unknown coach and hoping to get lucky.....it wasn't a good plan, but it was a plan. And absolutely agree that Maturi and the others that were in charge at the time absolutely deserve the blame for that.
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That's not really true IIRC. Brewster was not even close to Maturi's first choice; he interviewed a ton of guys but options were limited due to the stupid fact that we fired Mason on NYE post bowl game.

I'm not a Coyle fan by any means, but I'll give him credit for identifying a hot candidate in Fleck when we fired Claeys post bowl game last year.
 

dpodoll68 said:
DURR HURR HURR great comeback!!!1!!1!

Gordy Shaw was (at best) an average Big Ten OL coach who took advantage of some great players and had great RBs who made his line look good. There's a reason that a middling Minnesota team was the best job he ever had.
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You better go back and look at who were his best o lineman. Guys who nobody wanted coming out of high school. Browning and Shaw did a great job coaching them up with a zone scheme that cut blocked and pull with athletic lineman.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
That's not really true IIRC. Brewster was not even close to Maturi's first choice; he interviewed a ton of guys but options were limited due to the stupid fact that we fired Mason on NYE post bowl game.

I'm not a Coyle fan by any means, but I'll give him credit for identifying a hot candidate in Fleck when we fired Claeys post bowl game last year.
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He identified, and contacted Fleck when he still the A.D. at Syracuse. Way before the Holiday Bowl victory against WSU.

Gotta give him credit for hiring him and probably staying in touch too.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Gene Stallings, the Hall of Fame coach who won a national title, was a "whiff"? Great post.
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I'm not up on my Bama FB history, but I assume it would be more accurate if he'd said, "6 whiffs and 1 interim." Correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, the fact that his count was off by one doesn't make the post any less interesting in my eyes. A storied program with seemingly infinite resources and fan support has basically struck out far more often than they've hit a HR when it comes to hiring.
 



MGGopher said:
I'm not up on my Bama FB history, but I assume it would be more accurate if he'd said, "6 whiffs and 1 interim." Correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, the fact that his count was off by one doesn't make the post any less interesting in my eyes. A storied program with seemingly infinite resources and fan support has basically struck out far more often than they've hit a HR when it comes to hiring.
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I appreciate your understanding the overall point of my post, MGGopher. The other poster has always made a career in GH out of ignoring the primary thesis of posts in favor of trying to score points in his never ending game of one-upmanship.

Gene Stallings - Wikipedia

After an investigation that ran from late 1993 to August 1995, the NCAA found Alabama guilty of four major rules violations during the 1993 season. Stallings was implicated, along with athletic director Hootie Ingram, in falsifying the eligibility of Alabama cornerback Antonio Langham during that season. Langham had signed with a sports agent and applied to enter the NFL Draft following the 1993 Sugar Bowl, but was not subsequently declared ineligible per NCAA rules. Alabama officials only declared him ineligible the week before the 1993 SEC title game.

As a result, Alabama's football program was placed on three years probation, and docked a total of 30 scholarships from 1995 to 1998. Alabama was also forced to forfeit eight wins and one tie from its 9–3–1 1993 season in which Langham participated, resulting in an official record of 1–12. The Crimson Tide were also barred from postseason competition, including the SEC Championship Game and bowl games, during the 1995 season.

The lost scholarships as a result of the 1995 infractions case, however, would hobble the Tide for several years to come; they would only win eight or more games three times between Stallings' departure and Nick Saban's arrival in 2007, and would also suffer three of its only four losing seasons since Bryant's arrival.

Read more at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Stallings#University_of_Alabama


The Gene Stallings Era In Retrospect

In hindsight, the successes of 1994 were simply a deceptive mirage. Fans and media alike looked at the 11-0 regular season, combined it with the memories of the 1992 national championship season, and saw it as the definite establishment of Alabama as a powerhouse program that would compete for national championships on a yearly basis. In reality, the program was mired in a clear decline, and it was only some outstanding play by senior quarterback Jay Barker and some great luck in close games that simply hid that fact from the view of most observers. The overall talent level and depth of the roster was declining, there was significant turmoil on the staff, and the botched handling of an NCAA scandal meant that severe sanctions and their negative effects were imminent.

And that, in essence, is the legacy of Gene Stallings, insomuch as there is one. He had great success at times and will forever be immortalized for the 1992 national championship, but he squandered an opportunity to reap the long-term rewards of that national championship, and in effect he won a national championship that was of passing historic consequence. In the end, despite the early successes, Stallings probably left the program in a worse position than he found it seven years earlier.

Read more at; https://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/7/15/2268665/gene-stallings

 

dpodoll68 said:
The problem isn't that Mason was fired. It's that he was fired on a whim with no plan that should've been thought out over the previous months on how to upgrade the position.

This is a valid criticism of Maturi, unlike most that are leveled here.
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Plus he had been given a new contract not that long before, which made the buyout bigger. The timing of his firing was horrific, which is why Brewster got hired. In retrospect, firing Mason at that moment was one of the biggest mistakes any AD has made, as it included the hiring of Brewster.
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
Plus he had been given a new contract not that long before, which made the buyout bigger. The timing of his firing was horrific, which is why Brewster got hired. In retrospect, firing Mason at that moment was one of the biggest mistakes any AD has made, as it included the hiring of Brewster.
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It has been stated in GopherHole dozens of times since 2007. Bob Bruininks ordered Maturi to fire Mason after the Texas Tech game. Like so many Gopher fans Bruininks couldn't stand Mason's cavalier attitude toward losing. Losing just didn't bother him very much.
 

Cruze said:
I appreciate your understanding the overall point of my post, MGGopher. The other poster has always made a career in GH out of ignoring the primary thesis of posts in favor of trying to score points in his never ending game of one-upmanship.

Gene Stallings - Wikipedia

After an investigation that ran from late 1993 to August 1995, the NCAA found Alabama guilty of four major rules violations during the 1993 season. Stallings was implicated, along with athletic director Hootie Ingram, in falsifying the eligibility of Alabama cornerback Antonio Langham during that season. Langham had signed with a sports agent and applied to enter the NFL Draft following the 1993 Sugar Bowl, but was not subsequently declared ineligible per NCAA rules. Alabama officials only declared him ineligible the week before the 1993 SEC title game.

As a result, Alabama's football program was placed on three years probation, and docked a total of 30 scholarships from 1995 to 1998. Alabama was also forced to forfeit eight wins and one tie from its 9–3–1 1993 season in which Langham participated, resulting in an official record of 1–12. The Crimson Tide were also barred from postseason competition, including the SEC Championship Game and bowl games, during the 1995 season.

The lost scholarships as a result of the 1995 infractions case, however, would hobble the Tide for several years to come; they would only win eight or more games three times between Stallings' departure and Nick Saban's arrival in 2007, and would also suffer three of its only four losing seasons since Bryant's arrival.

Read more at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Stallings#University_of_Alabama


The Gene Stallings Era In Retrospect

In hindsight, the successes of 1994 were simply a deceptive mirage. Fans and media alike looked at the 11-0 regular season, combined it with the memories of the 1992 national championship season, and saw it as the definite establishment of Alabama as a powerhouse program that would compete for national championships on a yearly basis. In reality, the program was mired in a clear decline, and it was only some outstanding play by senior quarterback Jay Barker and some great luck in close games that simply hid that fact from the view of most observers. The overall talent level and depth of the roster was declining, there was significant turmoil on the staff, and the botched handling of an NCAA scandal meant that severe sanctions and their negative effects were imminent.

And that, in essence, is the legacy of Gene Stallings, insomuch as there is one. He had great success at times and will forever be immortalized for the 1992 national championship, but he squandered an opportunity to reap the long-term rewards of that national championship, and in effect he won a national championship that was of passing historic consequence. In the end, despite the early successes, Stallings probably left the program in a worse position than he found it seven years earlier.

Read more at; https://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/7/15/2268665/gene-stallings
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Blah, blah, blah. I didn't even comment on the central thesis of your post, which was mostly correct. Nonetheless, saying that a Hall of Fame, national-title-winning coach was a "whiff" is really, really stupid. Doubling down and trying to rationalize it by citing a nonsense article from some garbage website is stupider still.

If you don't want to get called out for saying stupid things - don't say stupid things.
 

Not a lot of Bama knowledge on this board. Bama only whiffed in hiring guys who didn't win national championships. Not in having success and winning conference titles. Comparing Bama and Minny is ridiculous. Bama isn't happy unless they hoist the crystal ball. Minnesota is happy with a win over Illinois.

Ray Perkins had a 10 game winning season at Bama
Bill Curry had a 10 game winning season at Bama and won the SEC
Gene Stallings finished ranked in the top 5 three times and won a national championship
Mike Dubose had a 10 game winning season at Bama and won the SEC
Dennis Franchione had a 10 game winning season at Bama
Mike Shula had a 10 game winning season at Bama

All this between Bryant and Saban.
 

Billy M said:
Not a lot of Bama knowledge on this board. Bama only whiffed in hiring guys who didn't win national championships. Not in having success and winning conference titles. Comparing Bama and Minny is ridiculous. Bama isn't happy unless they hoist the crystal ball. Minnesota is happy with a win over Illinois.

Ray Perkins had a 10 game winning season at Bama
Bill Curry had a 10 game winning season at Bama and won the SEC
Gene Stallings finished ranked in the top 5 three times and won a national championship
Mike Dubose had a 10 game winning season at Bama and won the SEC
Dennis Franchione had a 10 game winning season at Bama
Mike Shula had a 10 game winning season at Bama

All this between Bryant and Saban.
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I could have had a 10 game winning season at Bama and I never coached a football game in my life (although I played in plenty of them). There is very little doubt that most Bama fans considered them whiffs and I believe they were all fired except for Stallings.
 

Cruze said:
In hindsight, the successes of 1994 were simply a deceptive mirage. Fans and media alike looked at the 11-0 regular season, combined it with the memories of the 1992 national championship season, and saw it as the definite establishment of Alabama as a powerhouse program that would compete for national championships on a yearly basis. In reality, the program was mired in a clear decline, and it was only some outstanding play by senior quarterback Jay Barker and some great luck in close games that simply hid that fact from the view of most observers. The overall talent level and depth of the roster was declining, there was significant turmoil on the staff, and the botched handling of an NCAA scandal meant that severe sanctions and their negative effects were imminent.

Read more at; https://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/7/15/2268665/gene-stallings

[/I]
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I did laugh at this ridiculous paragraph. A team goes 12-1 and their only loss is a 1 point defeat in the SEC Championship and it's a "deceptive mirage"? It reminds me of everyone last season that was complaining about Claeys "ugly wins".
 

Cruze said:
I could have had a 10 game winning season at Bama and I never coached a football game in my life (although I played in plenty of them). There is very little doubt that most Bama fans considered them whiffs and I believe they were all fired except for Stallings.
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You're only off by four firings, but nice effort.

Perkins left Alabama for the Tampa Bay Bucs
Curry left Alabama for Kentucky
Stallings retired
Franchione left Alabama for Texas A&M
 

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