Rand Ball: Fleck's struggles in 2017 show that a coaching change was the right move

BleedGopher

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per Rand:

Combine the poor finish with the rah-rah nature of Fleck — and, oh, 50 years filled with a lot of hard times for Gophers football — and you have a restless fan base wondering what the heck is going on in Dinkytown. In the most unscientific of polls — seriously, the flat earth guy launching himself in a rocket is deploying more science than we are here, so be wary — Star Tribune voters graded Fleck's Year 1 performance. Out of about 1,000 votes, only 7 percent gave him an A or a B. That left 26 percent with a "C" grade and a full 66 percent at either D or F.

What I imagine those folks must be thinking is something like this: Didn't this team win nine games, including a bowl game, last year under former coach Tracy Claeys? What in the world is going on?

Here's the thing, though: This season was destined to be mediocre at best regardless of who was coaching the team. Because for all the chatter about changing the culture — real talk, don't get me wrong — the biggest challenge Fleck faced in his first year (Year Zero, if we let him define it) was a stunning lack of talent, particularly on offense.

For all of Mitch Leidner's inconsistency as a quarterback, there were two things you knew about him: 1) He was a better runner than passer, but he would pass well enough often enough to win you some games. 2) Though it seemed like he might play forever — 47 career games and 41 career starts don't lie — there was no doubt 2016 was going to be his final year of eligibility.

Though it wasn't necessarily for a lack of trying, the previous coaching staff created a shaky (at best) succession plan after Leidner was done. This offense was going to struggle regardless of who was coaching this year, and as Chip Scoggins notes it's not just a QB problem. This team needs receivers and offensive linemen, too.

Had he remained the coach, Claeys with his defensive acumen and the continuity from year-to-year might have been enough for the Gophers to squeeze out another win this season against a soft schedule, allowing them to go to a bowl game.

We don't know yet if Fleck was the right hire. But what we saw this year, in Fleck's struggle, was that a coaching change was the right move.

http://www.startribune.com/flecks-s...coaching-change-was-the-right-move/460300813/

Go Gophers!!
 

You can’t say the offensive struggles would be the same when all of these players were running a different offense last year. Also the defense in the bowl game last year(basically the same defense as this year) played much better under Claeys. I love how people keep defending this season by ripping the former coaching staff. This season sucked. Hopefully we’re better next year.
 

You can’t say the offensive struggles would be the same when all of these players were running a different offense last year. Also the defense in the bowl game last year(basically the same defense as this year) played much better under Claeys. I love how people keep defending this season by ripping the former coaching staff. This season sucked. Hopefully we’re better next year.

It is less about ripping the old staff then it is about not blaming the new one for a lot of the offensive struggles this year. As many have pointed out and Rand does in his piece, this offense was going to struggle this year no matter who was in charge of the team. Yet there is a subset of our fans that are hanging onto the 9 wins from last year and acting like it was a slam dunk for this team to duplicate that total this season.

Not really sure how anyone can look at our current offensive personnel and blame the current coaches for the struggles. The fact of the matter is that the old staff failed in recruiting QB and WR, the proof is right there for everyone to see as balls bounce off receivers hands at an alarming rate and the QB play is clearly not where it needs to be in the Big Ten. For the most part the defense played OK all year even in spite of some key injuries.
 

I agree with everything he said and also think Fleck should’ve done a better job and won 6-7 games this year.

But the talent of this team was closer to a 4 win team than a 10 win team.
 

You can almost just look at the games Tyler Johnson didn't play in and draw a line there.

It's as if he was the final straw to break the camel's back. When he played, we had enough to be serviceable. When he didn't it got ugly.
 


We live in a strange world.

I get the argument that we were going to struggle because of our youth and because of the coaching change.
I get the argument that they just didn't think Claeys was the guy.

The argument that "man, we really stunk this year" as proof that we made the right decision. Ugh.
 

We live in a strange world.

I get the argument that we were going to struggle because of our youth and because of the coaching change.
I get the argument that they just didn't think Claeys was the guy.

The argument that "man, we really stunk this year" as proof that we made the right decision. Ugh.

It was pretty much the same argument made last year when he was fired though.
When people criticized his recruiting, they weren’t insulting his rank number...they were insulting his roster.
 

You can’t say the offensive struggles would be the same when all of these players were running a different offense last year. Also the defense in the bowl game last year(basically the same defense as this year) played much better under Claeys. I love how people keep defending this season by ripping the former coaching staff. This season sucked. Hopefully we’re better next year.

Like clockwork...the first response to this post starts out to say "It is less about ripping the old staff then it is about not blaming the new one for a lot of the offensive struggles this year."...then proceeds to rip the former staff.
 

It was pretty much the same argument made last year when he was fired though.
When people criticized his recruiting, they weren’t insulting his rank number...they were insulting his roster.

Yeah and it was a dumb argument then (IMO). If the team recruiting rankings in December were one of the main reasons to fire a 9-4 football coach, that's insanely dumb. I am not arguing that it was insanely dumb to fire Claeys, I am arguing that reason is silly.

The argument that "I just don't think Claeys is the guy to take us to the next level" is an argument that I don't think is obviously silly. I get that argument.
 



The offense may have struggled under Claeys but we sure don't know that either. Claeys went out of his way to hype Green. They thought McLaurin was the running QB for the offense they wanted to run. How that would have turned out is completely unknown, but it wouldn't of had to be too good to be better. We could run the ball under Claeys....the offense was largely intact, except for Mitch, as was the bowl game defense. Lingen stayed healthy, I'm guessing he may of gotten the ball, as one example...he had NFL hype at one time on here. So, I also don't believe we were limited to 6 wins as a ceiling. Several guys on the roster were used differently.
 

You can’t say the offensive struggles would be the same when all of these players were running a different offense last year. Also the defense in the bowl game last year(basically the same defense as this year) played much better under Claeys. I love how people keep defending this season by ripping the former coaching staff. This season sucked. Hopefully we’re better next year.

The Defense Stats were basically the same compared to 2016.
2017 2016
Pts/G 22.8 22.1
Pass Yds/G. 175 231
Rush Yds/G. 172 118
Yds./G 346 348
 

Assumptions being made:

1. 2 OL that transfered after last year and retired would have stayed and played this year if Claeys was here.

2. Injuries to players would not have happened if Claeys was here.

3. A better QB option would have been here if Claeys was here.

4. Players that were part of scandal would still be here if Claeys was here.

5. Claeys would have also red-shirted an entire class.

Claeys would have been coaching for his career this year. Andries would have played as well as other true freshmen. His eyes would have been focused on winning and saving his job and recruiting would have continued to get worse.
 

Assumptions being made:

1. 2 OL that transfered after last year and retired would have stayed and played this year if Claeys was here.

2. Injuries to players would not have happened if Claeys was here.

3. A better QB option would have been here if Claeys was here.

4. Players that were part of scandal would still be here if Claeys was here.

5. Claeys would have also red-shirted an entire class.

Claeys would have been coaching for his career this year. Andries would have played as well as other true freshmen. His eyes would have been focused on winning and saving his job and recruiting would have continued to get worse.

To answer your assumptions:
1. Even if they didn't, the recruits Claeys was going to bring in would have filled some of the OL holes. My assumption since we have no idea who he would have finished out his class with.

2. Injuries happen every year. It was asinine for PJ to say he was going to do something about injuries.

3. Since Johnson wanted a running QB to mirror what he did with Louisiana, a running QB would have been found between McLaurin, Green and Croft.

4. The 5 players would be gone regardless.

5. Don't believe he would have, because he would have brought in a few more JUCO's.

He definitely would have been coaching for his career and played the players that would have made the season a success to him. Don't agree that his recruiting would have gotten worse, because he never had a chance to finish out the class and continue building on what he had started.

The article fails to point out that the team did NOT improve as the year went on. When PJ was at Western, his team that first year may have not won games, but they were in quite a few games especially late in that year. That was not the case this season for his team here.
 



The Defense Stats were basically the same compared to 2016.
2017 2016
Pts/G 22.8 22.1
Pass Yds/G. 175 231
Rush Yds/G. 172 118
Yds./G 346 348

So you really believe that this defense played to the same level as it did under the old coaching staff? Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin all basically scored at will. At least last year the defense kept the games competitive the majority of the time.
 

So you really believe that this defense played to the same level as it did under the old coaching staff? Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin all basically scored at will. At least last year the defense kept the games competitive the majority of the time.

Defense lost a lot of experience (mainly the secondary) from last year to this year, along with players being expelled. I thought Fleck did a decent job and I support him. Going to be interesting to see if the team improves like his team at WMU did.
 

It is less about ripping the old staff then it is about not blaming the new one for a lot of the offensive struggles this year. As many have pointed out and Rand does in his piece, this offense was going to struggle this year no matter who was in charge of the team. Yet there is a subset of our fans that are hanging onto the 9 wins from last year and acting like it was a slam dunk for this team to duplicate that total this season.

Not really sure how anyone can look at our current offensive personnel and blame the current coaches for the struggles. The fact of the matter is that the old staff failed in recruiting QB and WR, the proof is right there for everyone to see as balls bounce off receivers hands at an alarming rate and the QB play is clearly not where it needs to be in the Big Ten. For the most part the defense played OK all year even in spite of some key injuries.
This is an old excuse with no means by which it can be measured. We have no idea how the offense would have played out had last year's coaching staff been retained. We have no idea whether some of the Offensive line men would have left. We have no idea. But, we do know that this year's squad looked lost and didn't really compete at the B1G level.
The season is over. Flip the page. Watch some hockey, basketball and baseball. It's good to diversify.
 

Yeah and it was a dumb argument then (IMO). If the team recruiting rankings in December were one of the main reasons to fire a 9-4 football coach, that's insanely dumb. I am not arguing that it was insanely dumb to fire Claeys, I am arguing that reason is silly.

The argument that "I just don't think Claeys is the guy to take us to the next level" is an argument that I don't think is obviously silly. I get that argument.

My take was the second take. I don’t follow recruiting rankings very much, but when I looked at the lack of anyone I had confidence in at QB, WR, TE that told me I don’t think TC could take the next step. Is that a recruiting ranking argument? No is that a recruiting argument? Probably
 

This guy is a total moron.

"We don't know yet if Fleck was the right hire, but what we saw this year, in Flecks struggle, that a coaching change was the right move."

I'm just totally baffled by this ass clowns thought process. Someone help me.
 

Minnesota made the right decision to fire Clayes and the great decision to hire Fleck. If Clayes was still here there is a very good chance he would just be getting his pink slip and Minnesota would have to fight 5 SEC schools and more for any coach on the market. We would have ended up with the 6th best coach on our list or some cast off.
 

This guy is a total moron.

"We don't know yet if Fleck was the right hire, but what we saw this year, in Flecks struggle, that a coaching change was the right move."

I'm just totally baffled by this ass clowns thought process. Someone help me.

He feels that the team would have struggled this year with the previous staff as well so, based on that, going in a different direction was the right move.
 

Minnesota made the right decision to fire Clayes and the great decision to hire Fleck. If Clayes was still here there is a very good chance he would just be getting his pink slip and Minnesota would have to fight 5 SEC schools and more for any coach on the market. We would have ended up with the 6th best coach on our list or some cast off.



Schiano is available
 

This is an old excuse with no means by which it can be measured. We have no idea how the offense would have played out had last year's coaching staff been retained. We have no idea whether some of the Offensive line men would have left. We have no idea. But, we do know that this year's squad looked lost and didn't really compete at the B1G level.
The season is over. Flip the page. Watch some hockey, basketball and baseball. It's good to diversify.

You are correct that it can't be measured and is all guesswork. That said, the offense had not exactly been great around here during the Kill/Claeys era so not sure why some would think things would have looked much better with Claeys at the helm as opposed to Fleck.

Good news is that only direction the offense can really go at this point is up so will be interesting to see what happens moving forward. Thank goodness for basketball season.
 

Our offense wasn't good ever under Fleck, it was serviceable and worked with good defense and ST

but it was largely 3 yards and a cloud of dust, no reason to think that would've changed

Kill and his staff truly found gems and coached them up. My hope was with consistency he could get better players and coach them up and get us to higher level. I think with Time kill could've, not so much with Claeys. Claeys will most likely never be a P5 HC again, there is a reason.

This year, who cares. Fleck is about getting us over a hump, not to ALabama level, but hopefully Iowa/Wisconsin/NW level

and I believe he'll do it
 

The Defense Stats were basically the same compared to 2016.
2017 2016
Pts/G 22.8 22.1
Pass Yds/G. 175 231
Rush Yds/G. 172 118
Yds./G 346 348

True, but remember we didn’t have the same defense as last year so we can’t win games this year.

Oh wait......

Setting aside poking the nattering nincompoops that think PJ Fleck is really the son of god, if you look at the numbers - purely as the numbers - we were about the same. But we fell in ranking in the conference as some defenses got better.

So optically about the same, but relatively worse compared to the competition.


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