Mackey on Fleck: "if you write him off after one year you're truly clueless."

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Mackey on Fleck: "if you write him off after one year you're truly clueless."

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Go Gophers!!
 

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I spent all year ripping him but I am certainly not writing him off. He walked into a horrible situation and made it through the year without any major scandals which is apparently nearly miraculous in the CFB environment.

He won the games that he had the people to win this year and spent most of the season installing the base of next year's offense and defense. I'm pretty excited for the future.

I do really believe that Claeys would have gotten this team to a bowl game and a likely 7 win season so I am a bit discontented with that, but Fleck was still a strong hire, and I'm excited to see what he can do.
 

I agree it's clueless to write off (almost any) coach in his first year.

Hopefully Fleck established everything off the field and shakes out the players he no longer wants or needs (or those who don't want or need the U).
Seeing the current coaching hirings taking place right now, I'm still glad we have PJ.

I was thinking 5-7 ot 6-6 for this year, but I'm really disappointed with how weak we finished 3 of the last 4 games. Lots of reasons for that and I can't put much of it on Fleck yet.
 

I wasn't particularly happy with the season, but I'm still in the boat, I think he'll eventually get things going.
 

Both Alvarez and Ferentrz started their first seasons at 1-10.
 


Both Alvarez and Ferentrz started their first seasons at 1-10.

a) If Fleck somehow survives that long in Minnesota despite our hard-on for firing coaches then I will be amazed. b) The 1998 Hawkeyes won three games and the 1989 Badgers won two games.

Fleck is taking over a better situation.
 

I'm not writing him off but I am disappointed and somewhat angry about how this season went. We hired him for his attitude and recruiting more than his game management, but that doesn't excuse some of the horrible decisions we made this year. I can't think of any way to justify sticking with plays that didn't work and running on 3rd and 10 so many times, and those are things that he can't blame on the roster.

Plus the way he talks doesn't help. He hyped up the team while knowing full well that we would have a rough season. He seems to be writing off next season already. He gave up on the seniors through his "year 0", but still played them and expected them to be loyal to the team. He's implied multiple times that he doesn't take responsibility for how players he didn't recruit play. It seems that every time he talks, he digs himself a deeper hole. He also feels the need to respond to every criticism of himself and those two aren't a good combination. He'd be much better off just keeping his mouth shut and letting people comment on him.

I am still optimistic that he can be the one who brings us back to greatness. I can't wait to see what he can do in a few years. But I'm also not happy with throwing away 2 seasons for "learning".
 

I'm not writing him off but I am disappointed and somewhat angry about how this season went. We hired him for his attitude and recruiting more than his game management, but that doesn't excuse some of the horrible decisions we made this year. I can't think of any way to justify sticking with plays that didn't work and running on 3rd and 10 so many times, and those are things that he can't blame on the roster.

Plus the way he talks doesn't help. He hyped up the team while knowing full well that we would have a rough season. He seems to be writing off next season already. He gave up on the seniors through his "year 0", but still played them and expected them to be loyal to the team. He's implied multiple times that he doesn't take responsibility for how players he didn't recruit play. It seems that every time he talks, he digs himself a deeper hole. He also feels the need to respond to every criticism of himself and those two aren't a good combination. He'd be much better off just keeping his mouth shut and letting people comment on him.

I am still optimistic that he can be the one who brings us back to greatness. I can't wait to see what he can do in a few years. But I'm also not happy with throwing away 2 seasons for "learning".

To quote PJ after the Wisconsin game "We won't look like that next year." I really don't think he expects us to take a step backwards.
 

I'm not writing him off but I am disappointed and somewhat angry about how this season went. We hired him for his attitude and recruiting more than his game management, but that doesn't excuse some of the horrible decisions we made this year. I can't think of any way to justify sticking with plays that didn't work and running on 3rd and 10 so many times, and those are things that he can't blame on the roster.

Plus the way he talks doesn't help. He hyped up the team while knowing full well that we would have a rough season. He seems to be writing off next season already. He gave up on the seniors through his "year 0", but still played them and expected them to be loyal to the team. He's implied multiple times that he doesn't take responsibility for how players he didn't recruit play. It seems that every time he talks, he digs himself a deeper hole. He also feels the need to respond to every criticism of himself and those two aren't a good combination. He'd be much better off just keeping his mouth shut and letting people comment on him.

I am still optimistic that he can be the one who brings us back to greatness. I can't wait to see what he can do in a few years. But I'm also not happy with throwing away 2 seasons for "learning".

Wait, so he hyped up the team, but wrote them off too? So which did he do: overhype them or write them off?
 



I do think Claeys would have had a better year this year, but I think there would have been a significant drop off after this. I just can't see Claeys as much of a recruiter, and he certainly wasn't the type to sell the program, which is a such a big part of college football. Plus he was always going to be tainted by the sex scandal, and that would only hurt recruiting as well.

I know a lot of people think Fleck is Brewster 2.0, but the fact is, he took a MAC team to a major bowl game. It's not like he was some obscure tight ends coach like Brew. He's had success, and I think he can here.
 

Fleck = Clown X 3 . To compare Fleck to Brewster is an insult to Brewster.

Stick with Fleck, that's what the BIG wants. Throw the fan base a minor bowl or two until it's time time to re-tool the program again. So funny that the posters on here have no clue what a nothing biscuit of a "football program" their lives are built around.
 

Remember guys: all of our returning players and our incoming talent suddenly turned into Illinois caliber talent overnight. Suddenly, we had to beg for B1G level talent to give us the time of day. How on earth will we fill our roster??:eek:

Voodoo, I tell you!
 

PJ’s record against Big 10 teams now 4-14 (with two wins against IL). Don’t give up on him for sure. Soon he will rip off 10 wins in a row to get to .500! And don’t forget how good we will be in 2022

Right. The Brew 2.0 comparison is unfair to Timmy; he had FAR more entertaining nonsensical sayings (“If you wanna get some ya gotta bring some” and “get your Dadgum Chili hot boys” comes to mind). PJ’s empty rhetoric is boring by comparison - Dull, stupid, psycho babble acronyms don’t get anyone’s Chili hot. They both are good at running their mouth with little to show for Big 10 wins though, so maybe it’s not so far off.
 



PJ’s record against Big 10 teams now 4-14 (with two wins against IL). Don’t give up on him for sure. Soon he will rip off 10 wins in a row to get to .500! And don’t forget how good we will be in 2022

Right. The Brew 2.0 comparison is unfair to Timmy; he had FAR more entertaining nonsensical sayings (“If you wanna get some ya gotta bring some” and “get your Dadgum Chili hot boys” comes to mind). PJ’s empty rhetoric is boring by comparison - Dull, stupid, psycho babble acronyms don’t get anyone’s Chili hot. They both are good at running their mouth with little to show for Big 10 wins though, so maybe it’s not so far off.

You're right, it's unfair to Timmy since we're comparing him to an actual coach, not just some TE coach with a personality. One year ago PJ Fleck took a MAC team to a place where the Gophers haven't been in almost 60+ years. Let's bring up the 4-14 B1G record in efforts to overshadow PJ's 12 win season... Especially since the Gophers have had one 10-win season in the last 100 years. I'm not comparing Dabo Swinney to PJ Fleck, but Dabo was on the brink of being fired after 2010.... He's won 80+ games since.

Dabo's gimmicks. Are you saying the gimmicks don't work?

1. "To be an overachiever, you have to be an overbeliever."


2. "Whatever the results you get, learn and grow from it and move on to the next one."

3. "It's only unthinkable if you don't think it."

4. "The only disability in life is a bad attitude."

5. "Don't let anyone walk through your mind with dirty feet."

6. "If you're gonna be great, you can't ever be satisfied."

7. "Attitude, work ethic, love, respect for others, that doesn't know any color."

8. "When you have the cross as the foundation of your life, football ain't gonna bring no pressure."

9. "Let the light that shines in you be brighter than the light that shines on you."

10. "Bad things happen in life... but it's how you respond that counts."

11. "I was taught to win and lose with class."

12. "We have three rules in our program that everyone must follow: 1. players must go to class, 2., they must give effort and 3. they must be good citizens. It's as simple as that."

13. "Recruits and their families want and deserve to know who you are as a person, not just what kind of coach you are."

14. "I try to be a good example to others, and I work hard to live my life according to my faith."

15. "That's been my word all year, Love, and I said tonight we're gonna win it because we love each other."
 

I'll write him off just because there's no way I'm going to agree with Phil Mackey on anything.
 

This is funny. The only people who would write off a coach after one year would be media hacks like Mackey that need a "hot take". They do this all the time. Hell, much of the Minnesota media wrote off Brewster at his opening press conference.
 

This is funny. The only people who would write off a coach after one year would be media hacks like Mackey that need a "hot take". They do this all the time. Hell, much of the Minnesota media wrote off Brewster at his opening press conference.

Which is why he posted this comment. This was a direct shot at Fat Pat for being a complete hack that has very limited knowledge of college football.
 

Wow. The knee jerk micro managing process is continuing to be the way to go for many. We all know what took place this past year as to the issues. Doubt if the other boards ragged on their coach after a poor won/loss record in a coach's first year. In every program players do not buy in as to what the new coach has to say. Some of it immaturity, an excuse or whatever. Not sure why some are hard on Minnesota coaches all the time compared to other programs. Get a life.
 

PJ was a failure in Year Zero. He will have success in the future and deserves time to right the ship. I like to think he will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 



Wow. The knee jerk micro managing process is continuing to be the way to go for many. We all know what took place this past year as to the issues. Doubt if the other boards ragged on their coach after a poor won/loss record in a coach's first year. In every program players do not buy in as to what the new coach has to say. Some of it immaturity, an excuse or whatever. Not sure why some are hard on Minnesota coaches all the time compared to other programs. Get a life.
Knee jerk people are never the successful people. They are the anchors that weigh true progress down.
 

Being critical and "writing him off" are not the same. Based on the "Grade PJ" GH poll, it's safe to say a majority were disappointed with his first year. Most expected them to do better on the field. I think we all expect marked improvement on the field going forward as well...some more than others. Fleck's paid well, and brought in a very experienced and well paid staff.
 

. . . the Dabo quotes are sweet!!! Maybe it's a matter of not ENOUGH acronyms and sayings then. Very deep. Whatever it takes; keep them coming. Looking forward to this recipe for success. Just hoping we are not getting B.M.O.M.L. ("Bigest Mistake of MN Lately"), which would be bad. In any event, it doesn't matter - we have him for four years - and he should get the time to see if it works in all fairness. As much as this seems very Carny like, changing people here again and again doesn't work either. Let the acronyms fly!!
 

Re: records.

Are victories in the MAC equal to victories in the B1G? Are you saying Fleck had the same level of competition and same level of difficulty in the MAC that he now has in the B1G? Under that standard, then Fleck needs to win 8 games next year at MN, because he won 8 games his second season at WMU.
 

It's a tough situation.

On the one hand, PJ really hasn't done anything near how his "magic" was sold. One big year of beating all MAC teams (and IL, and NW - by one). Two 8-3 MAC years, no matter how it's been portrayed, were a bit better than Bill Cubit's, but not radically. WMU pre-PJ was not awful. WMU's one terrible year was actually his (yes, I know, blame Bill Cubit). Really, WMU under PJ beat no seriously good teams - and when they finally got to a big game - WI handled them fairly well.

On the other hand, you can't just keep a carousel of coaches going or nothing will ever stick. It's a dilemma: how long do you let the infomercial-smarmy-sales-guy stuff go unchecked and what's the tipping point where it becomes the butt of all jokes and irreversible damage? OR, do you hold your nose and pray this is some kind of substantive "change" with a big payoff?

Honestly, as embarrassing as he can be, I'd error on the side of letting it play out. We've made our bed. Maybe his blather turns out to be wildly successful. Unfortunately, if you've been around long enough, you've seen blowhards come and go in all walks of life. They WILL wear you out. It can get toxic quick, particularly if the talk doesn't match results, and there seems to be signs of this already in "Year Zero". Time will tell. It's really a tough situation.
 

Coaches used to get five years to prove themselves. Then, at some point, Notre Dame fired a coach in his third year, which was a shock at the time. Now coaches are fired after one year. I firmly believed Coach Claeys deserved to finish his contract, and certainly Fleck should be given four or five years to see what he can do. But game day coaching was so bad this year, the QB muddle so perplexing - ending with Croft walking away - and the 120th in the nation offense so awful (running backs excepted) that my expectations for success for Fleck are not much above 50/50. He has to be a huge success recruiting, with a much better offense next year, to earn some respect. This season was terrible and Nebraska will never get this weak again once Frost arrives, we'll have to eventually play Ohio St and Penn St in rotation, Purdue and Illinois will improve, Wisconsin and Iowa continue to be tough, etc.
 

It's a tough situation.

On the one hand, PJ really hasn't done anything near how his "magic" was sold. One big year of beating all MAC teams (and IL, and NW - by one). Two 8-3 MAC years, no matter how it's been portrayed, were a bit better than Bill Cubit's, but not radically. WMU pre-PJ was not awful. WMU's one terrible year was actually his (yes, I know, blame Bill Cubit). Really, WMU under PJ beat no seriously good teams - and when they finally got to a big game - WI handled them fairly well.

On the other hand, you can't just keep a carousel of coaches going or nothing will ever stick. It's a dilemma: how long do you let the infomercial-smarmy-sales-guy stuff go unchecked and what's the tipping point where it becomes the butt of all jokes and irreversible damage? OR, do you hold your nose and pray this is some kind of substantive "change" with a big payoff?

Honestly, as embarrassing as he can be, I'd error on the side of letting it play out. We've made our bed. Maybe his blather turns out to be wildly successful. Unfortunately, if you've been around long enough, you've seen blowhards come and go in all walks of life. They WILL wear you out. It can get toxic quick, particularly if the talk doesn't match results, and there seems to be signs of this already in "Year Zero". Time will tell. It's really a tough situation.

That is absolutely nothing tough about the situation. Error on the side of letting it play out? Fleck has been at Minnesota for one year. Insinuating there is some decision to be made after one year is completely ridiculous. Fleck isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future no matter how much nonsense you continue to post about tipping points and how toxic it seems after one season.
 

Correct. I agree with you. It's way too early to even contemplate it. But, the point of the thread is that a number of people are already there and would do so now. You are right; it can't be the answer after one year (or Zero Year, I guess).

But, saying "give him time" is entirely different than having to jump on board for the ShamWow aspect of this process, or forcing the narrative PJ pulled some kind of miraculous turnaround at WMU, or that folks are not entitled to scorn much of the sheer silliness of some of his stuff, or that they can't have an opinion it may be bad for the program . . . or, that it's possible to have been fleeced once again (we've been down that road; it's worth discussing).

We live in strange times. Maybe his shtick is what's needed in this age of social media and 'round the clock sports "seasons" to be successful with young people. It's a sad state of affairs if that's where we are (I'd like to think they are smarter than this), but, the Genie may be out of the bottle and this is the "new normal".

So, four years for PJ. Yes. In the meantime, expecting people not to criticize the approach he's taking (and even by sarcasm; that's how people often express their frustrations), especially if the product stays poor, is not realistic.
 

But, the point of the thread is that a number of people are already there and would do so now.

Where are these people? I have yet to see a single person here (or anywhere else for that matter, aside from trolls on Twitter) who want him fired. Mackey is arguing against a straw man.
 




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