Mackey on Fleck: "if you write him off after one year you're truly clueless."

You are right. Most of even the harshest critics (I've been - but, only due to the over-the-top cheese factor not remotely in line with performance - not that I think he's incapable or a bad person or the like) are saying he needs time. One year is too small of a sample size to know how much is bad coaching, or bad luck, or a bad environment he's created, or a perfect storm of things likely never to happen again, or whatever.

The group that says he should be gone after 12 games has to be small. Anyway, he seems more palatable of late in terms of the talk. Maybe a bad Big 10 year will be a silver lining; the cheese factor gets toned down, he figures some things out, he brings a bunch of good kids in, and we get a decent team in a few years. And, maybe not. Either way, one year is not going to tell where it's headed.

scools12 said:

That is absolutely nothing tough about the situation. Error on the side of letting it play out? Fleck has been at Minnesota for one year. Insinuating there is some decision to be made after one year is completely ridiculous. Fleck isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future no matter how much nonsense you continue to post about tipping points and how toxic it seems after one season.

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I agree, and have said in many posts that he's not going anywhere soon unless the wheels totally come off in year three, or he gets hired away, neither of which I see happening. Doesn't mean we can't be disappointed. At this level, his cult of personality is a limited asset beyond this year with higher level recruits without elevating the win total.

The Daily Gopher had an article quoting many of the regulars here (perhaps) about Jerry Kill and his first season at Minnesota. It was a breath of fresh air and if you haven't done so already, read it. It's my opinion that Fleck needed to oversell the culture aspect of the program his first year and to those it grated on, I get it. That will lessen in year two (or year one) as the players remaining fully understand what Fleck is up to and I'm guessing have bought in. That will reduce the noise level and get us back to discussing and evaluating on field performance. Fleck has a good staff and they seem to be recruiting pretty well. They need a dependable quarterback and it looks like he popped yesterday.

Fleck is Fleck. I get that. it's a package deal - the slogans, acronyms, catch phrases, etc. It makes him an interesting coach to the media and fans, but it also makes him a bit of a hire-wire act.

As I see it, if the team wins, all of the other stuff becomes less annoying/important. But, if the team does not at the very least show some progress, I suspect that Fleck could turn out to have a shorter shelf life.

A less polarizing coach might get a longer grace period. With Fleck, I think he needs to show improvement pretty quick, or there could be a bigger fan and/or booster backlash.

If I had to guess right now what happens, I can see two scenarios:
1. The Gophers win big by year 3 or 4, and Fleck is hailed as a model for the modern coach.
2. The Gophers are still struggling by year 3 or 4, and Fleck is gone.

I just don't see a middle ground. Very few people are indifferent about the guy. It's a love-'em or hate-'em deal.

short ornery norwegian said:

Fleck is Fleck. I get that. it's a package deal - the slogans, acronyms, catch phrases, etc. It makes him an interesting coach to the media and fans, but it also makes him a bit of a hire-wire act.

As I see it, if the team wins, all of the other stuff becomes less annoying/important. But, if the team does not at the very least show some progress, I suspect that Fleck could turn out to have a shorter shelf life.

A less polarizing coach might get a longer grace period. With Fleck, I think he needs to show improvement pretty quick, or there could be a bigger fan and/or booster backlash.

If I had to guess right now what happens, I can see two scenarios:
1. The Gophers win big by year 3 or 4, and Fleck is hailed as a model for the modern coach.
2. The Gophers are still struggling by year 3 or 4, and Fleck is gone.

I just don't see a middle ground. Very few people are indifferent about the guy. It's a love-'em or hate-'em deal.

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If I recall correctly, Pat Fitzgerald brought a similar style to Northwestern in the early years. From the outside looking in, I liked the style and was a little envious (not sure how the NW fans took it). He's built a very solid program emphasizing academics and duty (culture) and has had several good but not great years, but is yet very respected. His first season took a 3-game nosedive has well. As long as PJ can get some success here and continue to emphasize strong culture, I'm guessing his style will become more accepted and the need for him to continuously promote his agenda will decline. That won't stop certain media members or fans from taking pot shots, but that's always the case.

Panthadad2 said:

If I recall correctly, Pat Fitzgerald brought a similar style to Northwestern in the early years. From the outside looking in, I liked the style and was a little envious (not sure how the NW fans took it). He's built a very solid program emphasizing academics and duty (culture) and has had several good but not great years, but is yet very respected. His first season took a 3-game nosedive has well. As long as PJ can get some success here and continue to emphasize strong culture, I'm guessing his style will become more accepted and the need for him to continuously promote his agenda will decline. That won't stop certain media members or fans from taking pot shots, but that's always the case.

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Whether Fitz had a shtick or not, he had a huge leash because of his hero status at that school from his playing days which weren't that far removed. It's not at all the same situation.

All these schools looking for a new head coach and not one mention of Tracy Claeys being contacted. How the hell can that be? He won 9 games last year!!


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dpodoll68 said:

Where are these people? I have yet to see a single person here (or anywhere else for that matter, aside from trolls on Twitter) who want him fired. Mackey is arguing against a straw man.

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So, writing off Fleck means firing? I just assumed it was in response to those who questioned ad nauseum his ability to coach and recruit that I read over and over and over this year based mostly on the fact that we were a 9-4 team last year.

dpodoll68 said:

Where are these people? I have yet to see a single person here (or anywhere else for that matter, aside from trolls on Twitter) who want him fired. Mackey is arguing against a straw man.

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I heard Mackey's rant, and this is exactly what I thought. Many are disappointed with the season (me included), but very few people who pay attention have given up on Fleck.

He kept referring to a letter he saw that was written by "a prominent, influential former player" to the regents complaining about Fleck. I assume that means Jim Carter, so we should really dismiss this entire thread.