Morning after baskets thoughts...

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
27,825
Reaction score
6,023
Points
113
- I hope we never play in this circus disguised as a basketball tournament again. It seemed like a big set-up to push guys into playing a NYC playground style game, where trash talking, one-on-one basketball and showboating was strongly encouraged.

- It affected Washington, Mason & Sexton the most. Multiple times IW jacked up 3 pointers or transition jumpers just to show boat. Multiple times he over-dribbled or turned easy passes into hard ones. He seemed more interested in putting on a good show for his NYC Instagram followers than winning the basketball game. The one on one, style seemed to play right into Sexton's strengths, as did playing from behind. Mason is the Senior who was supposed to be smarter than those guys though, but he ended up getting sucked into it more than the younger guys. His fake, then glance at Sexton, then 3 pointer, wasn't the first time he did that type of thing, just the first time it worked. Re-watch the game and you'll see he did that kind of thing on at least two occasions prior to that.

- On that note, the Bama fans sitting behind the announcers were instigating sh*t the whole time, talking trash to the players & injecting themselves into the game. It was clear that the players were responding to those fans with some of the things they were doing & saying. The refs should have stepped, early on. The whole NYC playground atmosphere, yuck!

- Bama clearly wasn't ready for how hard we came out of the gate. They're clearly used to be the alpha-dogs and found themselves in unfamiliar territory being over matched physically. Avery Johnson's 1st half T looked like he was trying to get his troops fired up. On his cue they got really chippy. A couple guys made runs at Lynch and just bounced off of him. They took Coffey down hard on a couple occasions. A couple times they tried on Murphy and he just fought through it like they weren't there. Then their guy hooked Murphy under the basket, elbowed him in the face and sort of tossed him to the floor. That was the 1st time where I thought "Ok, this is starting to get out of hand.". Avery Johnson must have gotten on them some more at half time, because in the second half they looked like they wanted to fight as much as play basketball. You could feel it in the air that something could pop off.

- I put much of this nonsense on Avery Johnson. His team was unprepared. He got angry, got a T and instantly his team started playing cheap to compensate. They came out after 1/2 playing cheaper still. He never reigned them in. In fact he seemed to be encouraging it. Watching his entire team come off the bench at the first sign of trouble was indicative of his leadership, imo.

- The hold against McBrayer wouldn't have been a big deal normally. The guy held him and just wouldn't let go. Given the tense atmosphere though, and McBrayer (imo) not wanting to look like a punk in front of the hometown NYC crowd, he shook loose and shoved back. The real problem started when #23 John Petty, who wasn't involved, came running at McBrayer with his hands up to fight, while McBrayer and the guy he'd tussled with were still jawing. Like in the NHL, 3rd man in should have been tossed & wasn't. The refs blew yet another call.

- Then the Bama bench did the stupidest thing I've ever seen. They ran onto the court, but didn't get into the scrap. Jesus, how stupid are those guys to jump off the bench and take 2-3 steps onto the court and stand there? Do they not understand that leaving the bench is an ejection? Who's been coaching these guys?

- Once we were playing 5 on 4 and 5 on 3, we could have gone full court press, we could have played run 'n' gun, we could have just pounded it inside over and over, but instead we hung around the perimeter and essentially played H.O.R.S.E. with them the last 10 minutes. It wasn't much fun to watch, but we got the W, didn't get anyone hurt & no more fights broke out.

- IW was absolutely abused by Sexton once Mason left. So much so, that we damn near lost a 13 point lead playing 5 on 3. Beating a dead horse, but while IW has tons of potential, he's so far away from being ready right now that it's a little scary. Still, if something happens to Mason, he'll have to shoulder much of the PG duties, so it's important he get the experience now. It's painful to watch him play right now, but it's all part of the process.
 

It wasn't much fun to watch, but we got the W, didn't get anyone hurt & no more fights broke out.
This is an important and a point not yet made here. Given the atmosphere, it matters.

And, agree on your take on the officiating. They had opportunities to do more than just blow whistles and penalize. How hard would it have been to call a conference with coaches and captains?
 

This is an important and a point not yet made here. Given the atmosphere, it matters.

And, agree on your take on the officiating. They had opportunities to do more than just blow whistles and penalize. How hard would it have been to call a conference with coaches and captains?

They should have done something about those Bama fans behind the announcers as well. There was no way to diffuse the situation with them doing their thing.
 

- The hold against McBrayer wouldn't have been a big deal normally. The guy held him and just wouldn't let go. Given the tense atmosphere though, and McBrayer (imo) not wanting to look like a punk in front of the hometown NYC crowd, he shook loose and shoved back. The real problem started when #23 John Petty, who wasn't involved, came running at McBrayer with his hands up to fight, while McBrayer and the guy he'd tussled with were still jawing. Like in the NHL, 3rd man in should have been tossed & wasn't. The refs blew yet another call.

This. That was being diffused by the players on the court and the two had been broken up. Petty rushing in with his fists up was what ignited the scuffle. At that point it was looking like a little pushing and shoving might actually escalate into punches being thrown.
 

This. That was being diffused by the players on the court and the two had been broken up. Petty rushing in with his fists up was what ignited the scuffle. At that point it was looking like a little pushing and shoving might actually escalate into punches being thrown.

I actually think the Gophers did an extraordinary job, in that situation, of de-escalating the tension. Excepting McBrayer, who had (IMO) a damn right to be upset about the elbow lock WWE move that Ingram was continuing to lay on him, the rest of the team did about nothing except try to defuse the situation. Kudos to them all!

After all of that time I still don't understand how the Gophers didn't end up shooting any free throws, especially given that Ingram shoved McBrayer hard in the face (and he wasn't thrown out, either, he fouled out soon thereafter); and that Petty was the one running in guns blazing to amp up the situation (ironically, he was injured soon thereafter). Can someone with an extreme knowledge of that part of the NCAA bball rule book lay out why the Gophers got zero technical FTs after all of that?
 


Richard Coffey tried to get those fans tossed. They were really riding Dupree hard and he was talking back to them.
 

Richard Coffey tried to get those fans tossed. They were really riding Dupree hard and he was talking back to them.

Interested to hear more about this. I was sitting on the other side of the court, and never noticed anything unusual, but when I rewatched the broadcast you can hear at least one Alabama fan constantly yapping and calling Nate Mason "trash." From other things that same guy said, it seemed like he might be associated with Sexton. I believe the announcers were over on that side of the court, opposite the teams' benches.

I did notice a couple guys sitting courtside seemed to be into it, but from the broadcast it didn't seem like those were the guys doing the talking, it seemed like someone in the second or third row.

Is security allowed to eject a fan for abusive language directed to players (not other fans), if they're not doing anything else?

At worst, seems like they should've been able to put a couple security guards or ushers down in the area. There were so few fans in the stands that a lot of stadium personnel were just kind of standing around.
 

I actually think the Gophers did an extraordinary job, in that situation, of de-escalating the tension. Excepting McBrayer, who had (IMO) a damn right to be upset about the elbow lock WWE move that Ingram was continuing to lay on him, the rest of the team did about nothing except try to defuse the situation. Kudos to them all!

After all of that time I still don't understand how the Gophers didn't end up shooting any free throws, especially given that Ingram shoved McBrayer hard in the face (and he wasn't thrown out, either, he fouled out soon thereafter); and that Petty was the one running in guns blazing to amp up the situation (ironically, he was injured soon thereafter). Can someone with an extreme knowledge of that part of the NCAA bball rule book lay out why the Gophers got zero technical FTs after all of that?

It's a weird rule. Running on to the court apparently never results in free throws or a tech just an automatic ejection
 

It's a weird rule. Running on to the court apparently never results in free throws or a tech just an automatic ejection

Pushing guys in the face by on-court players isn't worth a T either?
 



I actually think the Gophers did an extraordinary job, in that situation, of de-escalating the tension. Excepting McBrayer, who had (IMO) a damn right to be upset about the elbow lock WWE move that Ingram was continuing to lay on him, the rest of the team did about nothing except try to defuse the situation. Kudos to them all!

After all of that time I still don't understand how the Gophers didn't end up shooting any free throws, especially given that Ingram shoved McBrayer hard in the face (and he wasn't thrown out, either, he fouled out soon thereafter); and that Petty was the one running in guns blazing to amp up the situation (ironically, he was injured soon thereafter). Can someone with an extreme knowledge of that part of the NCAA bball rule book lay out why the Gophers got zero technical FTs after all of that?

Any technicals on the floor for the play cancelled each other out and the players coming off the bench don't warrant free throws. They just get tossed and that's all.
 

- I hope we never play in this circus disguised as a basketball tournament again. It seemed like a big set-up to push guys into playing a NYC playground style game, where trash talking, one-on-one basketball and showboating was strongly encouraged.

- It affected Washington, Mason & Sexton the most. Multiple times IW jacked up 3 pointers or transition jumpers just to show boat. Multiple times he over-dribbled or turned easy passes into hard ones. He seemed more interested in putting on a good show for his NYC Instagram followers than winning the basketball game. The one on one, style seemed to play right into Sexton's strengths, as did playing from behind. Mason is the Senior who was supposed to be smarter than those guys though, but he ended up getting sucked into it more than the younger guys. His fake, then glance at Sexton, then 3 pointer, wasn't the first time he did that type of thing, just the first time it worked. Re-watch the game and you'll see he did that kind of thing on at least two occasions prior to that.

- On that note, the Bama fans sitting behind the announcers were instigating sh*t the whole time, talking trash to the players & injecting themselves into the game. It was clear that the players were responding to those fans with some of the things they were doing & saying. The refs should have stepped, early on. The whole NYC playground atmosphere, yuck!

- Bama clearly wasn't ready for how hard we came out of the gate. They're clearly used to be the alpha-dogs and found themselves in unfamiliar territory being over matched physically. Avery Johnson's 1st half T looked like he was trying to get his troops fired up. On his cue they got really chippy. A couple guys made runs at Lynch and just bounced off of him. They took Coffey down hard on a couple occasions. A couple times they tried on Murphy and he just fought through it like they weren't there. Then their guy hooked Murphy under the basket, elbowed him in the face and sort of tossed him to the floor. That was the 1st time where I thought "Ok, this is starting to get out of hand.". Avery Johnson must have gotten on them some more at half time, because in the second half they looked like they wanted to fight as much as play basketball. You could feel it in the air that something could pop off.

- I put much of this nonsense on Avery Johnson. His team was unprepared. He got angry, got a T and instantly his team started playing cheap to compensate. They came out after 1/2 playing cheaper still. He never reigned them in. In fact he seemed to be encouraging it. Watching his entire team come off the bench at the first sign of trouble was indicative of his leadership, imo.

- The hold against McBrayer wouldn't have been a big deal normally. The guy held him and just wouldn't let go. Given the tense atmosphere though, and McBrayer (imo) not wanting to look like a punk in front of the hometown NYC crowd, he shook loose and shoved back. The real problem started when #23 John Petty, who wasn't involved, came running at McBrayer with his hands up to fight, while McBrayer and the guy he'd tussled with were still jawing. Like in the NHL, 3rd man in should have been tossed & wasn't. The refs blew yet another call.

- Then the Bama bench did the stupidest thing I've ever seen. They ran onto the court, but didn't get into the scrap. Jesus, how stupid are those guys to jump off the bench and take 2-3 steps onto the court and stand there? Do they not understand that leaving the bench is an ejection? Who's been coaching these guys?

- Once we were playing 5 on 4 and 5 on 3, we could have gone full court press, we could have played run 'n' gun, we could have just pounded it inside over and over, but instead we hung around the perimeter and essentially played H.O.R.S.E. with them the last 10 minutes. It wasn't much fun to watch, but we got the W, didn't get anyone hurt & no more fights broke out.

- IW was absolutely abused by Sexton once Mason left. So much so, that we damn near lost a 13 point lead playing 5 on 3. Beating a dead horse, but while IW has tons of potential, he's so far away from being ready right now that it's a little scary. Still, if something happens to Mason, he'll have to shoulder much of the PG duties, so it's important he get the experience now. It's painful to watch him play right now, but it's all part of the process.

Nice take on the game. Best explanation i have heard.
 

- I hope we never play in this circus disguised as a basketball tournament again. It seemed like a big set-up to push guys into playing a NYC playground style game, where trash talking, one-on-one basketball and showboating was strongly encouraged.

- It affected Washington, Mason & Sexton the most. Multiple times IW jacked up 3 pointers or transition jumpers just to show boat. Multiple times he over-dribbled or turned easy passes into hard ones. He seemed more interested in putting on a good show for his NYC Instagram followers than winning the basketball game. The one on one, style seemed to play right into Sexton's strengths, as did playing from behind. Mason is the Senior who was supposed to be smarter than those guys though, but he ended up getting sucked into it more than the younger guys. His fake, then glance at Sexton, then 3 pointer, wasn't the first time he did that type of thing, just the first time it worked. Re-watch the game and you'll see he did that kind of thing on at least two occasions prior to that.

- On that note, the Bama fans sitting behind the announcers were instigating sh*t the whole time, talking trash to the players & injecting themselves into the game. It was clear that the players were responding to those fans with some of the things they were doing & saying. The refs should have stepped, early on. The whole NYC playground atmosphere, yuck!

- Bama clearly wasn't ready for how hard we came out of the gate. They're clearly used to be the alpha-dogs and found themselves in unfamiliar territory being over matched physically. Avery Johnson's 1st half T looked like he was trying to get his troops fired up. On his cue they got really chippy. A couple guys made runs at Lynch and just bounced off of him. They took Coffey down hard on a couple occasions. A couple times they tried on Murphy and he just fought through it like they weren't there. Then their guy hooked Murphy under the basket, elbowed him in the face and sort of tossed him to the floor. That was the 1st time where I thought "Ok, this is starting to get out of hand.". Avery Johnson must have gotten on them some more at half time, because in the second half they looked like they wanted to fight as much as play basketball. You could feel it in the air that something could pop off.

- I put much of this nonsense on Avery Johnson. His team was unprepared. He got angry, got a T and instantly his team started playing cheap to compensate. They came out after 1/2 playing cheaper still. He never reigned them in. In fact he seemed to be encouraging it. Watching his entire team come off the bench at the first sign of trouble was indicative of his leadership, imo.

- The hold against McBrayer wouldn't have been a big deal normally. The guy held him and just wouldn't let go. Given the tense atmosphere though, and McBrayer (imo) not wanting to look like a punk in front of the hometown NYC crowd, he shook loose and shoved back. The real problem started when #23 John Petty, who wasn't involved, came running at McBrayer with his hands up to fight, while McBrayer and the guy he'd tussled with were still jawing. Like in the NHL, 3rd man in should have been tossed & wasn't. The refs blew yet another call.

- Then the Bama bench did the stupidest thing I've ever seen. They ran onto the court, but didn't get into the scrap. Jesus, how stupid are those guys to jump off the bench and take 2-3 steps onto the court and stand there? Do they not understand that leaving the bench is an ejection? Who's been coaching these guys?

- Once we were playing 5 on 4 and 5 on 3, we could have gone full court press, we could have played run 'n' gun, we could have just pounded it inside over and over, but instead we hung around the perimeter and essentially played H.O.R.S.E. with them the last 10 minutes. It wasn't much fun to watch, but we got the W, didn't get anyone hurt & no more fights broke out.

- IW was absolutely abused by Sexton once Mason left. So much so, that we damn near lost a 13 point lead playing 5 on 3. Beating a dead horse, but while IW has tons of potential, he's so far away from being ready right now that it's a little scary. Still, if something happens to Mason, he'll have to shoulder much of the PG duties, so it's important he get the experience now. It's painful to watch him play right now, but it's all part of the process.

Spot on take. We out muscled them the entire first half. Bama came out second half trying to play much tougher but it just came off as cheap play since they couldn’t match us physically. The entire tone was different and I am not surprised things got heated.
 

If Mason got hurt, wouldn't McBrayer slide in a head of Washington?
 



Is security allowed to eject a fan for abusive language directed to players (not other fans), if they're not doing anything else?

Security can kick any fan out for just about any reason. And here they should have.

It was a poorly run tournament that hopefully we never participate in again. The type of drama-filled basketball it was encouraging doesn't belong in the NCAA.
 

Security can kick any fan out for just about any reason. And here they should have.

It was a poorly run tournament that hopefully we never participate in again. The type of drama-filled basketball it was encouraging doesn't belong in the NCAA.

First of all, don’t hold it in a high school gym.
 

Nice the big media is painting a pretty picture of how well Bama did with only 4 players. What could they have done if they played with 5? Gophers were trying their hardest......Blah!
 

Pretty sure the Facebook live broadcast crew said at least one fan got ejected. They placed quite a bit of blame on fans for getting the players riled up. Too bad all this distracts from how well the Gophers were playing.
 

Nice the big media is painting a pretty picture of how well Bama did with only 4 players. What could they have done if they played with 5? Gophers were trying their hardest......Blah!
They did play with five...for most of the game...and the Gophers dominated.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
 

First of all, don’t hold it in a high school gym.

Most high school gyms in the Minneapolis area are much larger than LIU Brooklyn. It holds around 2,000 people. High school assemblies are larger than that by a good amount.
 




Top Bottom