What grade would you give PJ Fleck in his Gopher debut season?

What grade would you give PJ Fleck in his Gopher debut season?

  • A

    Votes: 12 5.7%

  • B

    Votes: 21 10.0%

  • C

    Votes: 60 28.6%

  • D

    Votes: 79 37.6%

  • F

    Votes: 38 18.1%
  • Total voters
    210
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Ewert86PC said:
How is a 5 - 7 season exactly like a 9 - 4 season?

How is a 2-7 conference record exactly like a 5-4 conference record?

What color is the sky in your world, son?

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He's a clown... doesn't deserve a reasoned response.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It didn't surprise me after we lost our only competent receiver. A receiver who would likely only be the 2nd or 3rd best receiver on most other good B1G teams. We played two of the best defenses the last two games with no passing game whatsoever.
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Clown
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
That's when I thought our QB was better then their 3rd string QB, which was obviously not the case while watching the game. Then when Winfield went down and their OL mauled our tiny DL, that changed things just a bit.
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Clown!
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
McGhee was a good run stopper but was terrible in pass coverage. There was a reason he was a backup last year.
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He had his shortcomings for sure but I thought he was the glue of the db's this year and looked like an obvious dropoff when he wasn't out there.


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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Out of those players who is going to be difficult to replace? Richardson is about it, but he also has his limitations due to his height.
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Are you painting yourself in a corner with your carefully crafted narrative? Even though the previous regime couldn’t recruit, any decent player they had which helped us to 9-4 graduated last year leaving the cupboard totally bare for PJ. Since we weren’t left with anyone, none of these players should be difficult to replace, so we should be better next year with another year of PJ’s recruiting and coaching right?
 


leadpipegopher said:
Are you painting yourself in a corner with your carefully crafted narrative? Even though the previous regime couldn’t recruit, any decent player they had which helped us to 9-4 graduated last year leaving the cupboard totally bare for PJ. Since we weren’t left with anyone, none of these players should be difficult to replace, so we should be better next year with another year of PJ’s recruiting and coaching right?
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Right, 7 of last year's players were on training camp rosters. Won't be the case this year. I think we'll make a bowl game next year.
 


60's Guy said:
I don't see how we are better next year?

22 McCrary, Kobe RB 6-1 240 SR Chipley, Fla. (Butler CC)
76 Calhoun, Vincent OL 6-4 320 SR Roswell, Ga. (Southwest Mississippi CC)
96 Richardson, Steven DL 6-0 292 SR Chicago, Ill. (Mt. Carmel HS)
13 Celestin, Jonathan LB 6-1 232 SR Jonesboro, Ga. (Mundy's Mill HS)
86 Lingen, Brandon TE 6-5 254 SR Wayzata, Minn. (Wayzata HS)
99 Stelter, Andrew DL 6-4 298 SR Owatonna, Minn. (Owatonna HS)
42 Juenemann, Justin K 6-0 175 RS SR Phillipsburg, Kan. (Phillipsburg HS)
8 McGhee, Duke DB 6-1 211 RS SR Decatur, Ga. (Cedar Grove HS)
9 Carter, Eric WR 5-11 193 RS SR Lakeland, Fla. (Lake Gibson Senior HS)
18 Santoso, Ryan P 6-6 258 RS SR Pace, Fla. (Pace HS)
93 Jackson, Merrick DL 6-2 316 RS SR East St. Louis, Ill. (Iowa Western CC)
15 Rhoda, Conor QB 6-3 225 RS SR Eagan, Minn. (Cretin-Derham Hall HS)
12 Poock, Cody LB 6-2 229 RS SR Okoboji, Iowa (Iowa Western CC)
4 Ayinde, Adekunle DB 6-0 210 RS SR Blaine, Minn. (Blaine HS)
80 Wozniak, Nate TE 6-10 280 RS SR Greenwood, Ind. (Center Grove HS)
78 Wright, Garrison OL 6-4 319 RS SR Beattie, Kan. (Butler CC)

That's 12 guys or so who played a lot. Some were definitely better last year than this year but still. Doesn't count the transfers, depending who they turn out to be. Next year we will hear how young we are in year one. If it happens at all, it will take a while. It will not happen 100% with any QB on the roster. Only chance is Vic or somebody being really good at the position. What if earlier reports are accurate Smith is going to the NFL? Is it concussions Brooks is dealing with? No RB with experience would not help. Next year unfortunately could easily be worse. What does that do for recruiting and guys leaving? What if Warinner or Paup leaves?
If next year is worse how many fans do we have? How tired of PJ will many people be?
PJ needs to perform magic. I just don't think we are WMU.
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That's a lot of what ifs.
What if TCF bank catches fire and we need to play all of our games on the road next season?
Quit living in fear, dude. Relax.

I think Brooks is done. If he has three week concussions now, he shouldn't come back for his own health. His next concussion will be more than three weeks.
I'm a believer that the running game is more about the line than the back.
(if you're a Viking fan you'd see an example)

Next year could be worse. I agree. The first (2016) Claeys recruiting class will be RS Sophomores and Juniors. The Claeys - Fleck mixed class will be RS Freshman and Sophomores. The Senior class is Kills last recruiting class which ranked 13 out of 14 Big Ten teams.

I'll post more about this in a separate thread, but the 2015 class for us was very dismal, where Wisconsin's is very solid.
 

I'm more worried about a team that was outscored 70-0 in the last eight quarters of football in 2017.

Where was the defense?

We know the offense was MIA. The QB could barely throw near the receivers. When he did, the receivers couldn't catch the ball. Pathetic.

Where was Special Teams? Oh, yeah, they were busy holding the other team so instead of first and goal on the Wisconsin four yard line, we had first and ten from the Wisconsin 49 yard line (or some such nonsense).

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Early in the season I thought our receivers looked improved - actually going up for the ball, etc. We are vastly improved on discipline and penalties. Game plans and play calling were extremely disappointing. We lost some big players with injuries so who knows what could have been. I'm skeptical our supporting staff can get us where we need to go. I feel bad for our players. It's tough being a Gopher fan. Here's hoping we get a great recruiting class. If Coyle wanted to decrease the scholarship seating cost, that'd be alright.


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C- it was underwhelming, but not a complete gong show. They really **** the bed vs Maryland and Purdue
 

Ewert86PC said:
I'm more worried about a team that was outscored 70-0 in the last eight quarters of football in 2017.

Where was the defense?

We know the offense was MIA. The QB could barely throw near the receivers. When he did, the receivers couldn't catch the ball. Pathetic.

Where was Special Teams? Oh, yeah, they were busy holding the other team so instead of first and goal on the Wisconsin four yard line, we had first and ten from the Wisconsin 49 yard line (or some such nonsense).

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I think the defense gets exposed when the offense can't control the ball at all.
Gopher defense was solid at the start of the Badger game, but they kept having to go out to keep making stops with the offense not even getting first downs.

Defense of course could be better. DB's and DL help would be good. Hopefully our redshirt players that play next year are solid contributors along with any transfers that play.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
That's when I thought our QB was better then their 3rd string QB, which was obviously not the case while watching the game. Then when Winfield went down and their OL mauled our tiny DL, that changed things just a bit.
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We were 13 point favorites give it up
 




I don't think it's really fair to give him a grade after this season, since grades imply a pre-existing set of expectations, and he barely had any of his own players out there. If I was forced to evaluate his first season I'd probably give him a B-minus, but again, that really doesn't seem fair to him, since the previous staff left him with a mess, and I don't think they'd have this team in a better position.
 

bemidjigopher said:
We were 13 point favorites give it up
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Facts don't work on these guys. Clearly, when someone's vision is no narrowed, and is so indoctrinated into the Fleckhood, that they've convinced themselves that there is no difference between this year and last year.....they're gone.

It's like in the Walking Dead when a close friend/relative turns into a walker. They're not in there anymore. Run!
 

Phil definitely deserves an F for this job. This year makes me yearn for Tracy Claeys defense and game planning. I have an idea, maybe let Tracy coach the football team and let the "fit" person recruit the players. The Coyled Snake really fu@ked this football situation up. Good thing we have Pitino.
 

jrock said:
Phil definitely deserves an F for this job. This year makes me yearn for Tracy Claeys defense and game planning. I have an idea, maybe let Tracy coach the football team and let the "fit" person recruit the players. The Coyled Snake really fu@ked this football situation up. Good thing we have Pitino.
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Remind me again who was largely responsible for the construction of our roster when Fleck got here?

Claeys was not really a master of defensive game planning; that performance against Wazzu was great, but it wasn't replicable in a conference game with only a week to prepare. We had three weeks to get ready for Leach's air raid, and threw defensive looks out there they hadn't seen on film. We wouldn't have that benefit in the regular season, and given our issues with poor in-game coaching and lack of discipline, I'm guessing he would actually have us in a worse position.
 

easterngopher said:
Remind me again who was largely responsible for the construction of our roster when Fleck got here?

Claeys was not really a master of defensive game planning; that performance against Wazzu was great, but it wasn't replicable in a conference game with only a week to prepare. We had three weeks to get ready for Leach's air raid, and threw defensive looks out there they hadn't seen on film. We wouldn't have that benefit in the regular season, and given our issues with poor in-game coaching and lack of discipline, I'm guessing he would actually have us in a worse position.
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Remind me, how many times the team got blown out with Claeys at the helm.
Hint: The answer is 0.
 

Our roster was fine when Fleck got here. PJ decided to make college juniors and seniors to either learn HOW, HYPPR RTB and other meaningless acrnoyms, or you won't be part of the team.

Well, a decent number of these kids told the Peej to get fu@ked and left the program. Now, because of his arrogance this is what we got. And he complains that he has no talent. The people who follow this team and think logically, (Not JB, FTF, or GWG) can see through all his bullsh!t and realize he ruined this season with how he reacted with his new players. People like me are very cynical now. Now it's let's see what ya got Peej...the snake ain't gonna save you now.
 

jrock said:
Our roster was fine when Fleck got here. PJ decided to make college juniors and seniors to either learn HOW, HYPPR RTB and other meaningless acrnoyms, or you won't be part of the team.

Well, a decent number of these kids told the Peej to get fu@ked and left the program. Now, because of his arrogance this is what we got. And he complains that he has no talent. The people who follow this team and think logically, (Not JB, FTF, or GWG) can see through all his bullsh!t and realize he ruined this season with how he reacted with his new players. People like me are very cynical now. Now it's let's see what ya got Peej...the snake ain't gonna save you now.
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Yup, you're super logical and definently didn't hate him the moment he was hired. Maybe you guys should have listened when BTN came here and said we sucked.
 

jrock said:
Our roster was fine when Fleck got here. PJ decided to make college juniors and seniors to either learn HOW, HYPPR RTB and other meaningless acrnoyms, or you won't be part of the team.

Well, a decent number of these kids told the Peej to get fu@ked and left the program. Now, because of his arrogance this is what we got. And he complains that he has no talent. The people who follow this team and think logically, (Not JB, FTF, or GWG) can see through all his bullsh!t and realize he ruined this season with how he reacted with his new players. People like me are very cynical now. Now it's let's see what ya got Peej...the snake ain't gonna save you now.
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Decent take- I forgot some left- does anyone have a list of those who left do to the coaching change
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
Remind me, how many times the team got blown out with Claeys at the helm.
Hint: The answer is 0.
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So just because those teams didn't get blown out doesn't mean there weren't issues? What about the 34-32 win over Rutgers, and near misses against Colorado State and Oregon? What about our lack of discipline and poor in-game coaching that cost us the Nebraska, PSU, and Iowa games? As James Franklin said, "winning minimizes issues; losing magnifies issues. Either way, the issues are still there". So just because we went 9-4 last year doesn't mean we'll go 9-4 this year, and it doesn't mean the issues weren't there last year. We just didn't notice them because there was still enough depth and talent on the two-deep to conceal glaring problems further down the roster. This year, that's no longer the case. We don't have a competent Big Ten quarterback, a receiving corps that can give him some open targets or catch the balls he throws their way, or an offensive line who can protect him. The secondary is also a mess, and part of that is also on Claeys for having no institutional control last season.

This team can't throw. They can't protect the QB. On defense, they tackle like a bad MAC team, and the receivers act like the ball is going to bite them half the time. And these are Tracy Claeys' players. Once Fleck gets his own guys in there, if the same problems are still there, then you can pass judgement. Or just continue to be short-sighted and blame Fleck for the mess he inherited. One would think twenty years of perpetual rebuilding would teach this fanbase something about rebuilding, but apparently that didn't happen. Jeez.
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
Yup, you're super logical and definently didn't hate him the moment he was hired. Maybe you guys should have listened when BTN came here and said we sucked.
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Why would I dislike my new football coach? There would be no reason unless he coached my football team from 9 wins to 5. Then I wouldn't like him as a coach.
 

easterngopher said:
So just because those teams didn't get blown out doesn't mean there weren't issues? What about the 34-32 win over Rutgers, and near misses against Colorado State and Oregon? What about our lack of discipline and poor in-game coaching that cost us the Nebraska, PSU, and Iowa games? As James Franklin said, "winning minimizes issues; losing magnifies issues. Either way, the issues are still there". So just because we went 9-4 last year doesn't mean we'll go 9-4 this year, and it doesn't mean the issues weren't there last year. We just didn't notice them because there was still enough depth and talent on the two-deep to conceal glaring problems further down the roster. This year, that's no longer the case. We don't have a competent Big Ten quarterback, a receiving corps that can give him some open targets or catch the balls he throws their way, or an offensive line who can protect him. The secondary is also a mess, and part of that is also on Claeys for having no institutional control last season.

This team can't throw. They can't protect the QB. On defense, they tackle like a bad MAC team, and the receivers act like the ball is going to bite them half the time. And these are Tracy Claeys' players. Once Fleck gets his own guys in there, if the same problems are still there, then you can pass judgement. Or just continue to be short-sighted and blame Fleck for the mess he inherited. One would think twenty years of perpetual rebuilding would teach this fanbase something about rebuilding, but apparently that didn't happen. Jeez.
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We almost beat Penn St (finished 7th in final AP poll), Nebraska (21st when we played them) and Iowa (as high as 10th during the season).These were three of our four losses. No comparison between the 2016 results and 2017 overall.
 


jrock said:
Our roster was fine when Fleck got here. PJ decided to make college juniors and seniors to either learn HOW, HYPPR RTB and other meaningless acrnoyms, or you won't be part of the team.

Well, a decent number of these kids told the Peej to get fu@ked and left the program. Now, because of his arrogance this is what we got. And he complains that he has no talent. The people who follow this team and think logically, (Not JB, FTF, or GWG) can see through all his bullsh!t and realize he ruined this season with how he reacted with his new players. People like me are very cynical now. Now it's let's see what ya got Peej...the snake ain't gonna save you now.
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You have to teach the culture to everyone-- juniors and seniors included. Otherwise you have a split locker room, or you are never able to install your culture at all. If the upperclassmen don't like it, they don't have to stay. You may not like that, but it's the reality of a rebuilding project: Coyle made a long term investment in Fleck, Fleck did the same in our program, and the seniors on this team aren't part of the future.

And how many people actually left the program after Fleck got here? I count five guys: Moore, Elmore, Connelly, Mayes, and McLaurin. Moore was extremely loyal to the old regime and he was probably going to leave regardless of anything Fleck did. IIRC, he transferred almost immediately after Claeys was fired. I believe Elmore left shortly thereafter, and it's reasonable to assume that he was also loyal to Claeys and wanted to go somewhere where he could make a bigger impact (ECU). Mayes likely took the same path, and his decision to play for Gary Patterson at TCU only strengthens that assumption.

We have literally no evidence to suggest that Connelly left because of Fleck-- if anything, it had to do with his injury history. Finally, McLaurin only lasted two week under Fleck and went back to the junior college ranks. He wasn't cut out for the culture here, and that's perfectly fine. He wasn't likely to be the answer at QB anyway, and the fact that he went back to a JUCO suggests that he would have a very hard time making it academically. That's not someone we want here if the coach is Fleck, Claeys or Kill.

Also, it's worth noting that part of the McLaurin mess is on Claeys and his staff. They had their heart set on him from the get-go, and when Jordan Ta'Amu was on campus last fall, ready to commit, they actively discouraged him from committing, saying they were going to take McLaurin. Ta'Amu ended up being a fairly good get for Ole Miss, and would probably be our starter this year. Yet another thing Claeys and his staff bungled.

If you think Fleck is a snake-oil salesman or you don't like his coaching style, that's fine, but please refrain from making judgments on his future here until you have sufficient data points to make such judgments.
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
We almost beat Penn St (finished 7th in final AP poll), Nebraska (21st when we played them) and Iowa (as high as 10th during the season).These were three of our four losses. No comparison between the 2016 results and 2017 overall.
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Penn State were missing a ton of linebackers when we saw them at the beginning of October, and it's widely accepted that they made changes on offense during and after our game that allowed them to make the jump to B1G Champs from 7-5 pile of mediocrity. That was not the same team that boatraced Iowa and took USC to the wire in Pasadena.

Tommy Armstrong was banged up in the Nebraska game, and we also got rather lucky in that game: we got the benefit of several drive-extending penalties on our opening scoring drive, and also received outstanding field position after a backwards punt from Caleb Lightbourn that took a really, really weird hop. That was another scoring drive. Other than that, our offense was shut down, especially in the second half.

Iowa lost to an FCS team and also struggled against an awful Purdue team. We lost that game because we didn't go with a run-heavy game plan to exploit Iowa' mediocre rushing defense. Instead, we went after their elite passing defense more than we should have, and they shut us down. That's on the coaching staff. There were also some head-scratching play calls at the end of the PSU game that contributed to our blown lead.
 

There is a fine line between being over the top and subtle convincing to go with the program. I have been told by a former student athletic trainer that transitioned from Claeys/Kill to Fleck that all the trainers had to learn the new acronyms or lose their positions. He thought it was ridiculous and so did all of the trainers. So how many talented trainers did PJ lose? Trainers might be a dime a dozen, but good players are not.
 

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